I was going to post 'listen at 4;58"---but as I kept listening, I realized how good the whole lead was-totally unique set of note choices--not just talking about overblows and od's-- It felt bluesy, went from soft to hard playing------fast to slow--low end to high end of harp and kept the bluesy feel---did all of it unbelievably smooth.
I saw J play both of those songs with JJ Appleton a few months ago. Double Trouble is a personal favorite Otis Rush tune and their cover of it kicked ass. ---------- "The blues are the roots of all American music. As long as American music survives, so will the blues."...Willie Dixon
Yes. Jasons Version of Double Trouble is whats going to finally make me learn 3rd position. Ive been putting it off for ever. But That song has been stuck in the back of my mind for months. Especially the beginning. Awesome.
They played in Delaware twice on the dirty memory tour. Both venues where complete opposites. One was in a small tavern,(45 people max.) so it was more less acoustic with some pole speakers. That show was amazing. I think the Best Show I've ever seen. Very Intimate show.
The second in a hall. So a complete opposite side of the spectrum. He was actually able to rip on the Bassman a few times and play dirty.
So I saw slightly different versions of all the songs. Just amazing. DEREK NIEVRGELT on the stand up bass was pretty dope too. Hope they put out another album.
"It's a shame that more people, especially harmonica players, don't notice the musical genius that is Jason Ricci." Thus spake Carl A and it was the funniest post on this forum in a long while. Carl, haven´t you noticed that discussion here -- and here we are harmonica players, if other people stray into these debates they must be masochists on an unimaginable level -- on the JR topic often has the character of: "I luuurvh Jason Ricci!" "But I luuuurvh him even more!!" "No, I love him the mostest!!!" "No, wait for me ...!!!!"
Carl A ... He is great, yes. But Musical Genius, Im not so sure. No offence to Jason, but Mozart is a musical genius. Howard Levy is closer to harmonicas own musical genius for his innovations. No matter how you feel about his music. I originally took that statement as being a bit over the top on purpose, which maybe was how it was intended.
MARTIN ... Im starting to see that a Bit. Ricci is awesome, but it does get a little groupie-ish. But on the other side of the coin .... I have found that if the player is alive people tend to bash them or judge them a little more harshly and everyone is ok with this. If the player has passed however they immediately become untouchable. This is not just with Jason, but alot of players. idk. just an observation. But I do take your point. It can be a bit much.
That being said ....
I Luuuuuv him sooooooo much!!!! J/K.
I think its to do with no one else really pulling together our generations style with blues and harmonica all in one. He has his punk, rock, blues songs. He really is the only one i know of that really pulls together alot of the Gen. X musical taste in the harmonica world.
I understand that this is not everyone's taste or style. And thats cool. But talent is talent. You have to, at the very least, give people their due.
Some people look at him through rose colored glasses. Which is never really a good thing. I always TRY to be objective. But again on the other side of the coin some jusge him a little too harshly. If someone posted something about another artist ... yall would come out of the woodwork saying how great they are and posting all kinds of videos and experiences with said artist. So I dont think thats exactly fair to say. But it would be done in a slightly less "OMG" sort of way i imagine.
Anyhow ... whatever. 8^) ----------
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on May 12, 2016 7:53 AM
I always looked at him as the Tommy Emmanuel of harp, and like Emmanuel, the skill level is so high that often you need to have a WELL trained ear to appreciate what the man does musically and technically.. The end result is a very loyal fan base but no football stadiums... Or should I say the DESIRED result...
I find the more i learn of the real technical parts of the harp the more i appreciate every player i listen to.
Learning the difference between tremelo and vibrato set my brain on fire with alot of the players i listen to. Because i really had no idea nor i had really thought about how they got THAT sound.
Some i may have not liked as much before.
Chromatic players are the newest edition to that list. ----------
If Hendrix or Stevie Ray Vaughan can be called musical geniuses, so can Jason. Like what he plays or not, he always KNOWS what he is playing and does so intentionally. I've heard him play so many different styles well. I don't like them all, but every time I hear him play in a different style I am more impressed with his level of talent, musical creativity, risk taking and technical mastery. ---------- *************************************************** /Greg
Easy Carl .... it ain't all that dog. It's just the Internet.
My advice ... just erase those post n be over it. Your worried about the opinions of dudes who prolly still rock their OP shorts and members only jackets.
(Sorry had to go there. But Cmon it was funny. ) ----------
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on May 12, 2016 2:04 PM
SRV was a terrific player--but didnt break new ground.
On the other hand Hendrix- maybe not quite as good a player as SRV was certainly a person to take the guitar where it hadnt been before and his legacy looms large over rock guitar
Jason just posted this. He's on a few tracks on this album. (The ones he plays on say so in the sing title.) One of the songs is really great until the "Our Father" part. Kinda turned me off.
@Carl: No need to be offensive and call me names. This is (at least partly) a debating forum, and difference of opinion is what drives the thing. And I happened to radically disagree with your opinion on the alleged lack of recognition for JR´s harmonica playing. (That did not, BTW, entail any denigration of JR´s playing, which is astounding. It´s not always my preferred style but nevertheless astounding.) Didn´t mean to sound condescending, and I apologize if that seemed the case, but I just found it funny. With regular intervals this forum suddenly transmogrifies into a sort of informal Jason Ricci fan club, and with all my deeply felt respect for the guy, I think that sometimes that can be just a little bit embarrasing. But maybe it´s just because I´m an old c$&t.
I have always appreciated the woodshedding time and effort that JR spent developing his skills.
However, I don't find the depth within his approach that I enjoy in other artists.
The way to describe my opinion is that Jason is constantly throwing great attempts at the big breakthrough artistry wall, and while they do make a big noise when they splat, they seem to slide off and not really stick.
Also agree with the vocal criticism and extra guitar comment above. Vocals kinda hurt Mark Hummel's overall package, in a sense, as well.
Have always been amused/fascinated by the loving cult that has surrounded him, too. ---------- The Iceman
Iceman .... I agree about the vocals part. Not with Jason. I like his vocals, but MANY great blues harp players songs are ruined (IMO) by Crappy Vocals.
Singing is its own instrument. Its seems alot of people take it lightly and think they can just do it.
IDK maybe im way off base, but I find myself listening to instrumentals quite a bit because when im searching for new music I often find players that sound Phenomenal, but the songs are just ruined by a bad vocalist. Its not always the harp player thats the vocalist and Vocals, like anything else, are subjective, But with harmonica not exactly being main stream, theres Not a TON of Fantastic players out there to choose from. Not compared with guitar players for example. So its upsetting when you find a harp player that you really love, but cant stand to listen to any of the albums he/she is on. And the singers all seem to have this same way of singing. This kind of Elvis meets Lounge Singer .. and I cant stand it.
Anyhow. Sorry I had to get that out. It really Bugs me. ----------
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on May 13, 2016 6:32 AM
I will unabashedly count myself amongst the JR fanboy collective.
He has always been gracious at intermissions and small venue access conversations for years.
A couple of years ago, when Jason was experiencing his trials and tribulations, I visited him when he was spending a little "self time" at the place in Altadena, Southern California. At the time, he had limited mobility and was trying to get himself by.
I met him on Saturday morning, St Patrick's Day to work on tweaking harps. Rather than pay him to adjust and impart mojo, I wanted him to give me a lesson on his approach on "customizing". We went to the local Starbuck's and sat towards the back. Over the course of the next couple of hours, he walked me through the Ricci Method. Very cool. Having spent many visits staying at the Late Great House of Buddha and sitting and absorbing the Michalek Method, it was nice to compare and contrast. (In the interest of full disclosure, per the 20th century philosopher, Harold Callahan, I do know my limitations -- I have the handicap of not surgeon's hands but gorilla hands).
So, we go through a couple of my harps, suck down a little coffee, and I take copious notes.
The Saturday morning ritual of Pasadena/Altadena BMW and Rover crowd are circulating in and out of the Starbucks. The Starbucks music is playing and we are chatting and doing our thing at the back of the place.
All of a sudden, Jason perks up and stops. His head is cocked like a dog and he is fixed. Next thing I know, he reaches down and picks up one of my harps and starts blowing.
To this day, I cannot remember, but it was either Coltrane, Davis or Rollins (I think) playing out over the Starbucks system. Inside and on outside speakers as you walked up to the door and patio.
Effortlessly, he swoops in and out and works that canned tune like a madman. Not just playing along, but compliment and counterpoint. Amazing. His face and body look happy, the stresses of life are suspended. I was transfixed. The amazing thing was that the whole place was too. A snapshot in time. Every customer, every employee. The whole joint stopped and took it in. JR ran with it for about 30 or 45 seconds and then stopped just as fast as he started. Set the harp down and picked his coffee back up.
After all the recordings, the shows, the conversations and everything else, that tiny little incident made me see that dude as Greg described him above. He is just so comfortable in his "talent, musical creativity, risk taking and technical mastery."
So, yup. Count me as part of the loving cult. ---------- ~Buzadero Underwater Janitor, Patriot MBH poster since 11Nov2008
Last Edited by Buzadero on May 13, 2016 7:04 AM
However, the whole open my addicted/recovery life to my fans approach for support and love never quite sat comfortably with me.
I respect those that work on themselves in a private sense, as it feels like it's too easy to gain large crowd support by playing the "going public with my problems" card.
However, as a proud completor of the Betty Ford Center (way back when the Great Lady herself roamed the halls and offered positive affirmation and smiles) I can tell you that recovery is a path that exemplifies the concept of "whatever works", in the purest sense.
I'll voluntarily point out that while it certainly isn't/wasn't for me, maybe the catharsis and support of "going public with my problems" is the means and mechanism that works the best for a person who derives fuel and energy from the stage and performance.
I think it was Cicero who popularized the shrug of the shoulder and the acceptance of "to each his own".
Of course, the irony is: your personal results may vary......
---------- ~Buzadero Underwater Janitor, Patriot MBH poster since 11Nov2008
That's exactly the point of my initial post. It's codgers like yourself that always need to put someone down in order to somehow make yourself feel like you've grown a couple much needed inches between your legs.
Firstly, I have no dog in this fight. I don't know Jason personally, and I am not a "fanboy". I just know what I like musically and can appreciate that.
IMO, Jason is one of the very few professional harp players who really exposes himself and puts himself out there, especially from a vulnerability perspective.
Maybe not everyone is as cool and collective as you may be, iceman. You don't even need to mention Jason's past problems. I don't believe he uses that to "gain" followers. It's his gift(music a genius) that makes people admire and respect him, as well as his humility.
How many times does Hummel, Estrin, Wilson, et al contribute to this forum?
Maybe they (and yourself Iceman) are just the perfect package bro. Wish my life was as perfect as yours, Ice!!!
Last Edited by CarlA on May 13, 2016 9:05 AM
I've known JR for a long time, through all of his personalities, so have a perspective through which I filter through my Detroit street years to the present time, giving me a skewed but somewhat personal view of the man based on my real life experiences, which are different than yours.
No need to attack me personally. (I kinda think this is against the forum creed anyways).
Anyways, the couple of (much needed?) inches stuff is perhaps your own projection onto me, as it is not part of my real world orientation.
(Damn, I just had to respond to that sentence - koff).
as a tip o' the hat to CarlA, I probably didn't need to mention the past problems, but my opinion kinda flowed out my fingers which then hit "enter". However, seeing as how public JR has been about all this, he kinda opened the door to comments - both supportive and criticism. ---------- The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on May 13, 2016 9:36 AM
Dont be so testy Carl. I feel you bro, but it aint all that.
I wasnt around for the whole jason in recovery thing, but to each his own.
I ve been "In Recovery" more than once. And am currently there now. I know what its like to need X ammount of $ everyday, etc. Fortunately I never got caught getting said Dollars, like he did. But some people are open about it and some aren't. I keep it pretty much to myself. If this wasnt a random internet forum I would never say half of this. My friends and family dont even know the half of it. Accept for the select few friends I used to do dirt with, but I kept those two lives separate the best I could. But half of them are Dead, the other half are locked up. So it was obviously time for a change. Again.
Anyways I agree with Buz when he said............ "Maybe the support of "going public with my problems" is the means and mechanism that works the best for a person who derives fuel and energy from the stage and performance."
Some people are like that. Whatever gets you off of that Evil shit is fine with me. I still think about it EveryDay, Every Single Fucking Day, and it been over a year this time. If you never been there you just dont get it. And couldnt possibly.
I also see your angle on it Iceman. I do. To take JR out of the equation, I hate most things that are popular. IDK why. But as soon as everyone starts obsessing over it, im done with it. It just kills it for me and im disgusted with it.
But Ultimately I think everyones overthinking it. Just listen to his music. If it doesnt hit you right in the soul. Something is fucking wrong with you. If you dont care for the perticular music style ... thats cool. But you have to give the man his due.
Now Lets wrap this up cus its getting Tired.
----------
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on May 13, 2016 9:54 AM
That was an Awesome JR Story Buz. That's that shit that he has and I want. The True understanding of the music. You can even see it in some of his really early youtube vids. He just fucking gets it. Its still almost a foreign language to me.
I mean .. I've got rhythm, but not much else.
He can be half sick, out of his mind, skin crawling, Bones on Fire, and just *Bing* ( light bulb ) Rip on the harp. His subconscious just figured out what to play to that song that was randomly playing in the background as he was sitting there talking with you about something completely different. That's just awesome to me. ----------
I applaud your approach at keeping to yourself. You have a great way of describing your struggle.
Jason's music doesn't tickle my soul and I don't feel there is anything f.... wrong with me. It's more of a head thing. I do appreciate the time and effort he spent getting where he is in performance currently. ---------- The Iceman
Well thats cool man. All of his music doesnt do that for me either. He's got stuff thats all over the place. It's not all meant to get to you in that way. But either way, if aint your thing thats cool too.
Cant we all just get along. lol.
Thanks for the kind words man, but I immediately regret typing all that. ----------
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on May 13, 2016 10:13 AM
Okay guys, let's take it down a notch. Martin, you are free to disagree with someone else's opinion, but when you launch into mocking someone else's opinion you are stepping across the line. You've done this on several occasions. Consider this an official warning.
CarlA, that said, your response was also across the line, on two counts. First, you took the bait and responded in kind. Bad on you. But second, the particular invective you chose is one that violates the forum creed all by itself in that context.
I've got an important meeting to go to. When I'm back I'll have another look at this thread in more detail. If people have cleaned it up by then I'll consider it resolved. If not I'll have to look it over in more depth and refer the matter up the food chain.
And, since I suspect my calling out of that particular term will cause some people to chafe a little, perhaps complain about PC culture run amok, let me remind you that there is still a long, long list of perfectly viable insults that don't involve casual misogyny that would only violate the parts of the rules involve the 'But do not flame, insult, or otherwise impugn the looks, parentage, intelligence, or talents of your fellow board members, and do not start threads that seek to encourage that sort of behavior' part of the forum creed.
Play nice. If you don't have anything nice to say stick a harmonica in your mouth.
I have nothing to "clean up" mate. If a member decides to be disparaging, maligning, and condescending towards a post I write with no provocation, I'll usually ignore it and move on. ........however, Martin caught me on a "bad day" and I let that c@$k sucker( hey, where do you think Iceman is......haha) get his just desert (Sorry, I changed my choice of wording because I don't want to be labeled a mysogynist ;) ......with all due respect, Mr. nacoran, you just publicly stated that Martin has broken the forum creed several times. You, as moderator, should have dealt with his prior infractions earlier, so as to prevent that smarmy sack of filth from causing any more hostility with his passive aggressive comments. Me, on the other hand, will not mince my words. Nor will I "play nice" when provoked unnecessarily.
.....as you can see, I am still having a "off day". Do with my account as you feel you must. Quite frankly, I rarely ever use this site anymore as its more of a PIA dealing with certain members than it is beneficial.
.......with that being said, have a magical day :)
Last Edited by CarlA on May 13, 2016 12:12 PM
CarlA, here is the thing. When one person is abusive, it's easy for us to do our job here. We punish the offender. When someone responds, then it because an accusing match back and forth. If we punish one offender and not the other we get all sorts of complaining emails about fairness.
Usually reminding people to follow the rules works. I'm sorry you are having a bad day. In the last week I've found out that a trusted family friend has been robbing my mother blind. My arthritis is killing me. My blood thinner levels are all messed up and I'm broke. Still, things could be worse. Me and my loved ones all have our health, more or less, and aside from deally with this mess I've got a pretty good day ahead. (The meeting I had to go to only took a few minutes!)
I'm sorry you're having a bad day. All I'm asking is that you don't snap at people here. I was hoping this could be a 'move along, nothing to see here' sort of an interaction. It's a pain in the butt looking up everyone's emails and sending formal notices. (Or database is insanely slow to respond.) My goal is to just keep the forum running smoothly. I try to do that in the least heavy handed way possible.
So please, would you, from one guy who has had a rough day so far to another, just delete the responses. Then I can just deal with the other end of it.
Thanks, Nate
PS, I wasn't calling you misogynistic for what you said. Words, (particularly obscenities) are often loaded, but they are also often reflexive. They take on double meanings- the simple insulting meaning, and other meanings that are tied up with the baggage of their other meanings.
"Words, (particularly obscenities) are often loaded, but they are also often reflexive. They take on double meanings- the simple insulting meaning, and other meanings that are tied up with the baggage of their other meanings."
I have a very close friend who holds a masters in Rhetoric from UC Berkeley. Yes, "Rhetoric".....
Nate, that sentence of yours could hold it's own with some of what he shovels. *golf clap*
---------- ~Buzadero Underwater Janitor, Patriot MBH poster since 11Nov2008
Is "your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries" ok? Just asking, I want to keep my insults tasteful, and well within the forum creed.
Last Edited by Honkin On Bobo on May 13, 2016 1:43 PM
Buz, language is just a set of agreed on meanings. I don't think CarlA was using it with the intention of it being offensive to women. I gave him, therefore, the benefit of the doubt.
You have, I've noticed, made it a habit to make snide remarks after a lot of my posts when I'm trying to do my job as an admin lately, and that that leads other people to chime in the same. If you want to have it out, or complain about the way I'm doing my job to Adam, fine, but I could do without the passive aggressive sniping. Maybe you are just going for a laugh, but it makes it harder to get a thread back on topic. I'm a forum member here too, and I try to treat people with respect, but I expect other people to do the same with me, not because I'm an admin, but because I'm a forum member. For a long time I counted you as one of the good guys but your constant snide remarks are wearing me down.
I don't get paid to do this. Every day I log on, approve new members, help people with password issues, help people with HTML issues, whatever, and try to shut down any bickering between members. Why? Frankly I don't care if you want to take a disagreement off the forum and argue. You are welcome to do that (as long as everyone agrees and there is no stalking/harassing going on) but we get complaints and people leave the forum when it starts digressing into constant bickering. Some people do it in dramatic public fashion. Some people send a private note. Others just fade away. If you want to have a passionate debate about something that is actually related to harmonica, that's one of the things this forum is for.
Rhetoric, for what it's worth, is about how language affects people. It's easy to go through life ignoring it. You can function just fine, but the words you choose will probably have all sorts of unintended consequences.
This thread is about a specific Jason Ricci video, and people are going to have different opinions on any musician. That's fine. Express your opinions about the music, but be respectful, and remember, your comments probably only come off a tenth as pithy as they were in your head. Text flattens out speech.
and Admin hat off... ------ So, Jason Ricci, love him or hate him? I love his stuff. I can argue about his technical brilliance, but when it comes down to it music is a lot about the emotional response it hits you with. You either get hit with it or you don't. I can listen to Levy and appreciate the technical prowess, but it doesn't make me want to dance.
I'd say Jason is a musical genius, but maybe I use that term a little loosely and technically. I'd easily rank him as one of the all time great harp players, but again, that's got a lot to do with how his music hits me. If you define genius in the technical sense it starts at a 140 IQ, (or, I'd say, if you are breaking down the sections, I'd argue if you had a 140 on that part of the test you are genius at whatever part that is.) So, that's roughly the top percentile. That means that for every 100 people, on average, 1 person is a genius. That probably means, even if you don't hang out with 'smart' people that you probably randomly know some geniuses. If you randomly picked from a list of everyone who calls themselves a harmonica player would Jason be in the top 1%.
How about we tighten the group. Would he be in the top 1% of people who play harmonica professionally?
How about the top 1% of those people historically?
My guess is most people would say yes, but I don't know a non-subjective way to test that. In fact, if we use the more basic definition we probably have several genius harp players on this forum. I can think of a list of several players who at the very least fit the looser definitions, and probably the tighter definitions.
Here is an example where you actually want to pin down what it means, otherwise you are arguing over semantics. I can say I have pink skin. (When you only have a few crayons you use the pink for white guys). I can say I have white skin. Neither is a particularly good description of the color of my skin. If we want to have an in depth discussion of skin color we need to agree on what exactly we are talking about. Are we talking about the crayon color you'd use? Are you talking about medical discoloration? (I get cold feet all the time, so I rarely take my socks off. When I do, holy crap they are white!)
So, is Jason Ricci a genius?
And if he is or if he isn't, does that really matter? I was only goofing around on harmonica when I first heard him. Hearing him made me want to be able to REALLY play. So what? That just means his music hits me a certain way. Millions of people feel that way about Justin Bieber. I can't stand Bieber, but who cares? He does what he does and some people like it. I've got to admit I've avoided his music well enough that I couldn't argue on whether it's genius or not. It certainly makes money.
We used to have debates over tongue blocking vs. lip pursing and they were pointless because neither side was really explaining the merits in a particularly useful way. If you argue that lip pursing gives you faster runs, that's a debatable and testable thesis. You can't do octaves with lip pursing. Okay.
So, if you want to argue over JR's playing, argue over it like you are actually someone who knows something about harmonica. Don't like it? Is it because it's too fast, has too much distortion, uses particular intervals you aren't fond of? Don't like him personally? Well, technically he's a member, so play nice. Don't like that other people are fans? Who cares? Unless you can articulate what you don't like about it you aren't going to change any minds. Maybe if you do you will. I don't like the taste of fish. I was eating miso soup and liked it until someone pointed out that it had fish in it. Suddenly I could taste it. It drew my attention to a subtle flavor and ruined it for me. Can't stand it now. Maybe you can ruin Jason Ricci for us, but please stop just assuming that he has some weird hypnotic power that turns people into helpless fanboys. Make a cogent argument. Stop assuming that you see something that other people don't that gives you some deep insight. Maybe you are missing something that other people see that is making you assume there is fish in your chicken soup.
