Popculture Chameleon
140 posts
Feb 25, 2016
10:42 AM
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with all the problems that hohner is having lately and the rise in the prices of their top model harps I was wondering what people thought about other harps that are on the market. I have heard mixed review about the sydel session standard but I honestly don't know any other harp companies that are around especially those that are budget friendly.. anyone have thoughts on the sydel session standard or any other harps that are out on the market
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TetonJohn
293 posts
Feb 25, 2016
11:03 AM
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I used to buy a lot of Delta Frosts; Rockin' Ron carries them I believe. They are more budget friendly than some, but less friendly than others!
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Killa_Hertz
626 posts
Feb 25, 2016
11:21 AM
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I was interested in trying a delta frost( the bronze reeds sound good on the manji and DF has these aswell), but heard they are having issues with the new ones. Not sure if it's true. Anyone know?
Pop ... i can't vouch for the standard, but the Session Steel is one of my favorite model harps. I love em. They sound especially good amped. I don't think you would be disappointed. A little more expensive, but apparently they last longer. I haven't broken a reed on Any of my harps(regardless of make/model, so i can't say much here either) I love the cover shape on them aswell.
I haven't tried any of suzukis recessed comb harps, but people seem to like them aswell. And they are cheaper.
Harmonicas. Gotta get em all. Find out what you like n don't. Other people's opinions only go so far.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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John M G
18 posts
Feb 25, 2016
12:08 PM
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Suzuki Manji's,
I've got an A which I've set up with a Blue Moon comb that I really like.
I've seen them on Amazon for as low as $34 !!!!!
They're also available in Keys of: Low C, Low D, Low E, Low Eb but they're in the $80 range.
I bought a Low C & Low D
Aren't Manji's Jason Ricci's harp these days?
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DanP
283 posts
Feb 25, 2016
5:44 PM
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I second that. The Suzuki Manji. I recently got two, one in C and one in A. I love the tone. Very airtight and responsive. Composite comb with the sound of a wood comb but with none of the issues. These harps are great for playing blues.
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Mirco
392 posts
Feb 25, 2016
6:10 PM
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The Manji.
Session Steel's are fine, but the comb is a bit different than the Hohners and takes some getting used to. I'm not sure what it is, but maybe the holes are a different size or there is more of a space between the holes?
And you can't tune steel reeds the way that you can tune the other ones. Steel is a serious metal.
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Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
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SuperBee
3445 posts
Feb 25, 2016
6:37 PM
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There's no substitute for me. None of those wannabe marine band with a difference harps make the cut in my book. But I'm stuck in my ways. I probably won't ever buy another new harp anyway.
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STME58
1601 posts
Feb 25, 2016
6:56 PM
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I am surprised Lee Oscar did not come up yet. It is the only harp besides Hohner I have seen in retail music stores.
I prefer to get my harps from Rocking Ron as he has Hohner, Suzuki, Seydel, Lee Oscar, Bushman, Huang, Fender and Easttop.
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528hemi
510 posts
Feb 25, 2016
7:07 PM
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Manji for the price. Expect to do some gapping on the lower holes on some OOTB. But minor tweaks and you are good to go.
528hemi
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Killa_Hertz
628 posts
Feb 25, 2016
7:35 PM
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Manji took alot of getting used to for me.
Micro ... the holes on SS are bigger and spaced further apart. But it Doesnt bother me. And you can totally tune the steel reeds.
I hate lee oskars.
Pop ... as you can see nobody ever agrees, so unfortunately you gotta kinda figure out for yourself. Sorry bro. 8^/
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Feb 25, 2016 7:35 PM
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isaacullah
3148 posts
Feb 25, 2016
10:03 PM
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If hohner suddenly went out of business, and I could no longer get a special 20, I think the Delta Frost would be my first choice as a replacement. Then the Suzuki harpmaster, and then the Seydel session standard. I do like seydel harps, but my favorite seydel harps (solist pro and session steel) are simply too expensive for me to justify buying.
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YouTube! Soundcloud!
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Glass Harp Full
111 posts
Feb 26, 2016
12:53 AM
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I play mainly Suzukis. The Bluesmaster and Harpmaster are definately good quality affordable harps.
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harmonicanick
2384 posts
Feb 26, 2016
1:12 AM
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@popculture
'with all the problems that hohner is having lately'
What do you mean by that? I have played GM's for years and they are better OTB than ever b4
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Popculture Chameleon
141 posts
Feb 26, 2016
4:46 AM
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Apparently they are moving to a new warehousevand even on a website like amazon the stock on hohners are pretty low and the prices have gone up 10 -15 dollars on their higher end modelsI have a hunch it could be months before the dust settles on it maybe even longer
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harpwrench
1075 posts
Feb 26, 2016
5:14 AM
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If you haven't tossed your broken Hohners, it's worth your time to check out my services.
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www.spiersharmonicas.com
Harp repair and upgrade menu
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Killa_Hertz
629 posts
Feb 26, 2016
5:33 AM
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Po ..I believe the move is done.
All this talk of delta frosts ... I'm buying one Ef it.
Isac i heard delta frost quality went down hill. Any truth to this?
What about the Delta Frost Woody?
Anybody tried one?
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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snowman
157 posts
Feb 26, 2016
7:05 AM
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I try not to be negative but avoid hering--reeds wear out and bend EASILY, when tuning. Im convinced their metal is a much lessor grade--
for non overblow harps
Ive owned lots of Lee Oscar--last forever easy to buy reed plates-reasonable price
Suzuki---I love the Manjies but $$$
promaster –comb will last forever and can buy
reedplates- fast action mediocre tone, but when
going for Chicago I don’t care
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florida-trader
883 posts
Feb 26, 2016
7:11 AM
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Regarding the Delta Frost. I have had a few of them pass through my shop and for the most part I found them to be good harps. I did have one customer who purchased a HarpMaster Comb from me (which fits the DF) contact me because he was having a hard time getting the harp to play decently. I offered to have a look at it and he sent it to me. I assumed that it would be a matter of flat sanding the draw plate and adjusting the gap to get it headed in the right direction. However, the draw plate was so badly bowed that it was impossible to straighten out. Even after considerable work the harp was a piece of trash. I wound up installing a set of ProMaster reed plates in the comb and just giving them to my customer.
The HarpMaster is a very good harp if you are a Special 20 fan.
Lastly, the more I work with it the more I like the Manji. With all due respect to Hohner, the engineering and construction of the Manji reed plates is superior to Hohners. The reeds are centered better. The tolerances are tighter. The reeds are flatter and have a better profile OOTB. The welded reeds can present a small challenge if/when a reed replacement is called for. I don't care for how Suzuki tunes the Manjis. It is too close to ET for my ear, so I tune them to Modern Compromise Temperament (like a Marine Band) and in my opinion, it makes a big improvement. Lastly, from my perspective as a builder, Suzuki is more "components friendly" than Hohner. I just buy reed plates and covers from Suzuki and use my combs to build harps. Try doing that with Hohner and you will spend twice as much for the components as you would for a complete harp so I buy the harps and toss the combs. Still, I do like Hohners and will continue to offer them. I do think they are very good harps but I also understand why a lot of people are getting fed up with them.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
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Martin
964 posts
Feb 26, 2016
7:58 AM
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For some harmonica playing people "budget friendly" is unintelligible. There´s just no upper limit for how much they´ll gladly cough up for a harmonica. The price is always right.
But if you play hard, like I do, and wear and tear your harps in a bad way, I´d say that those Delta Frosts probably won´t do you much good. Mine hasn´t even lasted an hour.
I´ve had to find myself a reasonbly priced source for the Lee Oscar reedplates and use those harps for practice -- sometimes I even stoop to much lowlier brands than LO, it depends on what I can find.
For gigs/recording I go to Hohner (S20, GM) or Tombo Ultimo -- the latter one of the sweetest harmonicas ever made. But if I played them all the time I´d be an even poorer SOB than I am today.
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Killa_Hertz
630 posts
Feb 26, 2016
9:45 AM
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Yea i suppose if you blow reeds out alot cost is a big factor. I dont, not yet anyways. I tend to play a lil on the softer side.
Tom i totally agree with you about the manji. Its a very well built harp. But the reeds (response wise) are nothing like hohners. Which is not at all a bad thing. Its just that a majority of people learn on hohners, so that response type is what they are used to. I know this was the case for me. So it took some adjustment. I find that seydel Harps are somewhere in between the two. I'm really gravitating in seydels direction lately. I know they are expensive, but im not one to burn thru reeds. So it's not that bad.
I really think lee oskars feel cheap. No offense to anyone who likes em. I just don't like the reed material, the covers are thin, they squeel if you bend a lil funny. Just not my favorite.
But to each his/her own. Marine Bands are always good. But alternatives are always nice aswell.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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mlefree
600 posts
Feb 26, 2016
9:56 AM
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I think that what most people who don't like Lee Oskars is their equal temperament tuning. Equal tuned harps sound terrible when you play a chord, IMO, and I posit that this is what turns people off about LOs.
LOs have many positive attributes. They are the original in interchangeable parts. The parts fit well and yield an airtight, nicely playing harp. They last forever and as someone said, reed plates are inexpensive and readily available.
If someone would take the time to retune a LO to a compromised tuning and set the gaps, they would have an inexpensive, very nice playing, very long-lasting harmonica.
I say "someone" because I am in a deeply committed polyamorous relationship with my Special 20s, Marine Bands and Suzuki Promasters.
Michelle
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SilverWing Leather - Custom leather creations for musicians and other eccentrics.
Last Edited by mlefree on Feb 26, 2016 10:13 AM
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Killa_Hertz
631 posts
Feb 26, 2016
3:50 PM
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Well..... if you do go manji. My suggestion is .... do a lil work to it and then throw one of Toms Hogany combs on there. Night and Day. OOTB they are ok. But with a lil TLC they ROCK. Plus i don't know if im alone here, but i hate the stock manji comb. There i said it.
Tom i like the manji tuning for some things, but your right it falls short other places. I wanted to find a tuning somewhere in the middle. I like the mellower sound, but the chords are rough. Maybe like a crossover tuning on the manji would be good. ??? Idk.
The Hogany material is Killer tho.
Michelle my main beef with LO is the feel of it. It feels like a cheap toy harp. My second beef is the reed Material feels and sound cheap. Third beef is the squeely bends.
So ultimately i don't care how convenient it is if it doesnt satisfy my need for a good solid feeling, well paying harp. Just my opinion. But they sure do have some die hard players. So maybe I'm missing something. Idk. Who knows I'm likely to be in here in a month singing their praises.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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Bass410man
67 posts
Feb 26, 2016
6:54 PM
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I have a few lee oskars and I will say I do not like them one bit. They are leaky, and they squeel when you bend them. I also have a couple crossovers and neither one played right out of the box, but I got them playing alright now. The first harmonica I ever bought, over 4 years ago was a Special 20. This is the best harp I ever played, I have never even had the covers off it, still in tune, still plays great, and bends like butter. plays better than my new crossovers, hands down. I think they make them a little different now, but not sure. But still a great harp for the price.
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digitalshrub
22 posts
Feb 27, 2016
6:47 AM
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Until recently, my harp collection was made up of exclusively Hohner Blues Harps and SP20s. I have two Suzuki Promasters, which I'm not a huge fan of: the tone is fine but the all-metal feel/taste is strange to me (esp the comb), and my beard gets caught in the corners of the coverplates routinely, something that never happens to me on my Hohners. I had a Lee Oskar a few years back that I hated (felt leaky and flimsy to me).
Fairly recently, I bought two Seydels: a Blues Session and a Session Steel. Both are great (I love the coverplates), probably my favs thus far. As someone mentioned above, I do believe the holes are smaller on the Session Steel, but maybe the orange comb is creating some kinda optical/tactile illusion?
Based on the love they get here, my next harp will probably be a Seydel 1847 Steel or Classic.
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Gnarly
1675 posts
Feb 27, 2016
7:15 AM
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As the primary Suzuki harmonica repair technician, I always like to pop in on threads like these and say:
One year warranty on domestically purchased Suzuki harmonicas, includes reed failure.
It also includes issues like gapping and airtightness, but I believe players should be conversant enough with those to adjust their own instruments.
When I first started playing a lot, I experienced frustration. Having forums like this one take you a long way down the road toward personal satisfaction.
PS I like my SP20s a lot too, but all mine are out of warranty ROFLMAO
Last Edited by Gnarly on Feb 27, 2016 7:16 AM
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isaacullah
3149 posts
Feb 27, 2016
9:17 AM
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@Killa-Herz, I must admit that I had not heard anything about a change in quality of the Delta Frost, but I do know that they are now regularly available again, so I suppose it's possible that something major has changed on the supply side. My high opinion of them is based on a pretty small sample, and from a few years back. Would be sad to know that they don't play the same anymore. But, the harp master is pretty darned close to the Delta frost in every way, so one could always go that route.
@mlefree: For LO, it's less the tuning for me than it is the awful, awful cover plates. IMO, they are some of the least comfortable cover plates on any harp. The large raised hole numbers are like Braille under your lips, and the matte finish sticks your lips to the harp! I found that hohner MS covers fit on LO haprs with only very minor modification, so have replaced the covers on all my LO harps thusly.
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Last Edited by isaacullah on Feb 27, 2016 9:19 AM
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Killa_Hertz
638 posts
Feb 27, 2016
9:46 AM
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Thanks isaac. Might take your advice on that. I would love it if i were actually satisfied with any of the lower cost harps.
But none of em really do it for me. Honestly, The sp20 even just leaves me wanting. I think it's the comb. Now that ive got used to the larger holes on the SS, the sp20 comb just feels off. I hear the rocket has a better comb with larger holes, i would love to try an amp, but they re just too expensive. I have too many other options in that price range.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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Martin
965 posts
Feb 28, 2016
9:09 AM
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@gnarly: "One year warranty on domestically purchased Suzuki harmonicas, includes reed failure."
For some reason this appears not to be the case in Europe -- at least not in Sweden. The absence of a technician is a possible answer. But if I´d had that
sweeteneer Suzuki would probably be my choice.
(We do have Ben Bouman i the NL who gives a life long warranty for Seydels that he has tweaked. The starting price though, is a bit higher, understandably, and then shipping etc.)
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Thievin' Heathen
697 posts
Feb 28, 2016
9:54 AM
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Awhile back, I saw, what was said to be, a Joe Filisko custom on Ebay and it had Lee Oskar reed plates. Ever since, I have wondered if that was a real Joe Filisko harp and if so, during what time period was Joe using LO reed plates?
This seems like as good a place & time as any to ask.
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harmonicanick
2386 posts
Feb 28, 2016
10:49 AM
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just jammin' at home on a Seydel steel in Low A,
Very hard to play, tight and unresposive, but sounds good
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Killa_Hertz
650 posts
Feb 28, 2016
11:03 AM
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I have heard that the really low keys arent that hot for the SS. The lowest SS i have is a low F, but i love it. Perhaps it just needs to be opened up. My low F was apparently customized by the seydel shop. The reeds are pretty dramatically arched and gaps are pretty wide, but the reeds close the gap pretty evenly and it plays very well.
Maybe this would help your harp play better.
The manji low keys are pretty great. I have a low D and low C manji. The low D i gapped pretty tight to make it more responsive. The low C i pretty much left stock ( just a few tweaks to make it less leaky) so i can still get the slappy sloppy reed sound. So it plays both ways. But i would try adjusting the seydel.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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harmonicanick
2388 posts
Feb 28, 2016
11:42 AM
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thanks KH
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mlefree
604 posts
Feb 28, 2016
12:54 PM
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Interesting comment about the low keyed SS harps. I've heard the same thing about higher keyed SS harps from a very well and and highly respected player.
My experience echoes that of harmonicanick. My A Seydel 1847 Silver acts exactly the same way.
This is why I am ill-disposed to try any more of them at $100 a pop.
On the flip side I hear many players that just love 'em. They just aren't for me.
Michelle
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SilverWing Leather - Custom leather creations for musicians and other eccentrics.
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Killa_Hertz
651 posts
Feb 28, 2016
3:27 PM
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Michelle ... If you decide to give them another try. I would suggest a normal key. My A SesSteel is my personal favorite at the moment. If you have a silver just lying around, you maybe could just buy plates. If it's something your interested in that is.
I also think that those of you who have been paying longer (and didn't have the option of all these crazy models) may be more set to your weapon of choice. Whereas I haven't been playing very long, so maybe it's easier to bounce from model to model. Idk, just a thought.
The SS isn't that bad, but the 1847 is rather steep. No matter how much i like em, its kinda hard to justify. Thats why I only have one that i bought new. And another I pieced together. They really do play great for me. Sucks you didn't have the same experience.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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sonny3
311 posts
Feb 28, 2016
4:05 PM
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I like the hering vintage 1923's quite a bit.Really nice tuned harps but not real airtight.Seydel 1847 silver's are fine Harmonicas.Not big on Suzukis but Harpmasters are solid.The one Easttop I bought from Danny G is a outstanding.
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1847
3242 posts
Feb 28, 2016
5:08 PM
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WinslowYerxa
1088 posts
Feb 28, 2016
7:08 PM
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Back in the early days (circa 1992) Joe Filisko would build using whatever reedplates the customer favored. He used to build Huang Silvertones for Peter Madcat Ruth, for instance. And I remember him specifically saying at the time that he'd build on Oskar reedplates. So I have no trouble believing that the harp on offer could be one of his.
Over time, Joe has narrowed his preferences and is pretty much exclusively a Marine Band guy.
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Join us in 2016 for SPAH on the San Antonio River Walk!
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WinslowYerxa
1089 posts
Feb 28, 2016
7:12 PM
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@Martin -
If you're blowing harps out in only an hour, you're blowing way, way too hard. You'll save money (and you'll probably sound better and have more control) if you learn to play with the minimum force instead of the maximum.
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Join us in 2016 for SPAH on the San Antonio River Walk!
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Martin
966 posts
Feb 29, 2016
4:12 AM
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Thanks Winslow, and believe me, the thought has entered my mind. And I´ve really tried to make adjustments -- but to no avail. Teaching old dogs new tricks and all that.
I said that *some' harps haven´t lasted me more than an hour; luckily that´s not true for *all* harps. (If so I´d been out of the game a long time ago.) The Lee Oskars normally hold up a bit better than that, but the Delta Frosts didn´t do much good to me, neither any of the other Herings that I´ve tried.
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Killa_Hertz
654 posts
Feb 29, 2016
4:26 AM
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Martin (just a thought) but do you gap your harps? I know if i played with stock harps straight ootb i would have to blow harder aswell. Maybe if you played with tighter gaps and could get great response at low breathe force, it might help. Maybe not, idk.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Feb 29, 2016 4:27 AM
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Martin
967 posts
Feb 29, 2016
5:05 AM
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@Killa: You probably have a point there: so to speak *forcing* me to play with less force ... But the sad aspect of that is that I don´t gap my harps. I´ve given it a try a couple of times but due to a pernicious, and probably innate, clumsiness I´m terribly scared of ruining the instrument, and thus don´t get much of gapping done.
Then "use a customiser"! Sure, but that´s where money comes in.
Luckily the S20 harps that I tend to go to when I´m in critical situations (gigs) are quite nicely gapped OOTB. But even so, those have a tendency to be really short lived.
It´s a mess.
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Killa_Hertz
656 posts
Feb 29, 2016
5:34 AM
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Yea i wouldn't pay a customiser just for gapping. Thats insane. And i really dont think anyone could perfectly gap a harp for anyone else. You should practice on old harps. The sp20 are hit or miss ootb. I would do one for you for free if your ever feelin froggy. Just to see if it helps. But like i said you may still have to do minor adjustments to get it to your liking. Its really not hard once you figure it out. A bit of shaping may do you some good aswell.
Like i said ... if your feeling froggy. Ide do it.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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Martin
968 posts
Mar 02, 2016
5:41 AM
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That´s a very kind offer, Killa, and I thank you for it.
But of course my initial stratagem should be to work on a few old harps. (No shortage of those here at home.) I know we´re not talking brain surgery, although it´s a brutal fact that some people are less good with their hands.
Also, a Swedish harmonica technician has just recently appeared and he´s offering reed replacements in exchange for old harps.
So maybe I can cut costs a bit for a while and then give gapping another try. (But I really hate doing such things -- a natural consequence of being a klutz of course, and it gives me these terrible headaches.)
Once again, thanks for a kind offer.
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isaacullah
3152 posts
Mar 02, 2016
7:28 AM
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Re: low tuned session steels: I have a Low C harp constructed from Session Steel rwedplates and a Solist Pro comb and covers. The plates, ootb were gapped too tightly, and one reed had not been tuned at all! If was not able to fix these issues myself pretty easily, I would have sent them back. However once adjusted via very basic gapping, it plays very, very, very well. What I mean by that is that basic gapping improved this harp moreso than I've found such gapping to do so on Hohner or Suzuki harmonicas. Now, this is a whopping sample size of n=1, so I wouldn't draw too many conclusions. BUT, I think it's fair to say that low-tuned SS harmonicas certainly have the potential to play very easily and smoothly.
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Gnarly
1682 posts
Mar 02, 2016
8:32 AM
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@ Martin Is this the guy?
Joel Andersson
He bought Dick Sjoeberg's old equipment.
Last Edited by Gnarly on Mar 02, 2016 8:34 AM
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Martin
969 posts
Mar 02, 2016
9:30 AM
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@Gnarly: Nope. My guy´s name is Erland Westerström. My understanding is that Joel exclusively works from scratch, so to say. And that costs.
Erland appears to have a more pragmatic approach in letting all those old, semi-wrecked harps, come to new use, and he takes spare parts (reeds) from all the major brands, excepting Suzuki.
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Killa_Hertz
677 posts
Mar 02, 2016
11:34 AM
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No problem Martin.
But i would HIGHLY suggest trying to figure it out yourself. Ofcourse none of us can make a custom harp on the level of a pro. But you can do pretty good yourself. It's not hard at all. Just takes a bit of trial and error.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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Gnarly
1683 posts
Mar 02, 2016
12:10 PM
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It's harder with Suzuki, since the reeds are spot welded to the plates.
If you have a drill press, it's not too hard.
I have the HRT-10, makes punching a replacement hole really easy.
Once you have replaced draw 5 once, putting a replacement in is really easy.
Martin, you would probably get your money's worth out of a Ben Bouman harp!
Last Edited by Gnarly on Mar 02, 2016 12:12 PM
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Thievin' Heathen
701 posts
Mar 02, 2016
1:14 PM
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Gnarly,
If you don't mind me asking, where do you get new, individual Suzuki reeds?
Given the expense of the HRT-10, cannibalizing old reed plates seems a bit shade tree.
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Martin
970 posts
Mar 03, 2016
5:30 AM
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@Killa: Thanks for the encouraging words. One of these days I might pour me a real stiffie and sit down for a renewed attempt. Last time I tried I broke a reed and had to can the harp. That sort of turned me off.
Believe it or not but even a simple tuning procedure presents a real challenge for some people.
@Gnarly: Regarding Ben: You´re probably right. But as I said above, the threshold price goes up quite a bit. Still, if I could afford that, Ben´s harps would probably be a great deal.
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