Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Spanish Tuning
Spanish Tuning
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GermanHarpist
908 posts
Jan 09, 2010
10:14 AM
Sounds amazing... but probably needs quite a lot of retuning work... Has anyone got experiences with this spanish tuning?



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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
Hobostubs Ashlock
276 posts
Jan 09, 2010
10:59 AM
that was a cool sounding harp now wheres my moracas i feel like getting gigy with it lol
toddlgreene
405 posts
Jan 09, 2010
11:05 AM
Whoa, I need to figure that tuning out! Very cool.
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~Todd L. Greene
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
barbequebob
310 posts
Jan 09, 2010
11:58 AM
Go to http://www.patmissin.com and he has enough tunings, including Spanish and Spiral (Circular) that would blow your mind. However, these aren't the kinds of things for newbies or people who don't take the time to learn where all the notes are on their instruments.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
nacoran
751 posts
Jan 09, 2010
12:10 PM
Seydel has an option for Spanish tuning. It's on my wish list. I haven't figured out what notes I'm using, but if you play a Chrom using the slide but only using blow notes you get an interesting scale that sounds Klezmer-ish.
Zauberer
1 post
Jan 09, 2010
1:51 PM
It's interesting.

Eugene Ivanov aka Jim presented on the russian forum http://forum.harmonica.ru/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=128294&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a his new tuning variant like the spanish tuning.

The video with the comments in English: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN1R-F0ZRzw

And the video from Jim: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RKUuxHH9lE

Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2010 1:52 PM
isaacullah
552 posts
Jan 09, 2010
2:50 PM
Yeah, I made a Spanish tuned harp. I did it on a cheap Johnson harp. I followed the layout as described in Steve Bakers Harp Handbook. He gives two types of Spanish tuning, one that's easier to play, ad another that's easier to make by re-tuning a normal Richter harp.. The easiest is to take an A Richter harp and re-tune it into an F Spanish harp. There are some cool sounds there, but I don't play it much. Someone with more music theory would probably like it more than me (that's you GH). Cool flamenco sounding chords, but I find it hard to play single note runs because I have not put in the time to muscle memory out where all the notes are...
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Super Awesome!
The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
GermanHarpist
914 posts
Jan 09, 2010
7:52 PM
Hi Zauberer! (Welcome to the forum. :) These are some interesting links...

Isaac, I definitely have to try these tunings. They sound fantastic and it seems like a nice way of expanding out into new realms.

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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
Zhin
376 posts
Jan 09, 2010
9:16 PM
Todd is awesome! That guy can really play the harmonica and I think doesn't get mentioned enough.

Do check out his other videos on his Youtubes. It's worth it. Really polite and easy going person as well!

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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin
jim
1 post
Jan 10, 2010
5:24 AM
Hello all oriental music lovers!
The "True Harmonic" tuning Zauberer has just mentioned is a hybrid mix of the "True Chromatic" tuning I have developed for chroms, and "natural minor", thus the tuning name.

The big deal about it is it fully chromatic using draw bends alone (no doubling notes BTW). It also has 16 chords + 14 heptachords (from a 10-hole). I'm using a low C 12-hole in the video, so I have 18 chords available there.
One more strong point about "True Harmonic" is position playing. You move 2 holes higher/lower, and you change the key, while staying virtually in the same position.

If you wish to try making one yourself, here's the layout (choose from the list on the left, works in any browser except IE):
http://truechromatic.com/harp-o-matic.html

BTW, a useful position/scale trainer webapp.
GermanHarpist
922 posts
Jan 10, 2010
2:50 PM
Hi jim... a russian harp celebrity... :)

Awesome app, I bookmarked it right away.

Btw. I developed a very similar position/scale trainer some time ago. I'm not so much the IT guy, so I did it on a sheet of paper. I'd be interested in hearing your comments. Here's the link:

http://www.itriser.com/harmonica/ps-chart.htm

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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
jim
2 posts
Jan 11, 2010
9:26 AM
Hi GermanHarpist!

Awesome gadget you have there:) I like it! It's really the same thing, but on paper. It's like a logarithmic ruler in the principle. (if you remember those times when you used those things instead of a calculator.)
Awesome stuff!
If you want to make the "True Harmonic" tuning, you'll need to get this:
C Eb G Bb D F A C E G
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
D Gb A Db E Ab B Eb Gb Bb

That means re-tuning there reeds:
0 -1 0 -2 -2 -2 -3 -4 -3 -5
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
0 -1 -2 -1 -1 -1 0 +1 +1 +1

Everything greater than -3 will need soldering or reed exchange. I advise to solder +1's as well, especially if you're making this from a Hohner.
This tuning is also no problem in the Seydel Configurator if you don't mind paying big bucks for a custom order ( I sometimes do, then I re-tune myself).

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www.truechromatic.com
jim
3 posts
Jan 11, 2010
9:28 AM
P.S. Ich hab dich im youtube "befreundet".
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www.truechromatic.com
isaacullah
558 posts
Jan 11, 2010
9:34 AM
As a simple aside, I have used various glues (ie CyanoAcrylate) and finger nail polish in the place of solder. These have the advantage of not heating the reed, which may cause some changing of the reed's response and even alter the natural tuning of the reed. The glues are fast, easy to apply, and easy to remove completely should you ever want to go back. I add a little dab of super glue to the tip of the reed. I use the super glue that comes with a brush applicator, so this is very easy. Make sure you put some paper under the reed as it is possible to glue the reed into the slot if you are not perfectly careful! (and who ever is?) I add more glue than it will take to get the correct pitch, and then after the glue has set, I file off a little of the glue dab until the pitch is correct for what I am trying to get to. Make sure that you let the glue cure completely before really playing the harp (ie. more than necessary to do the tuning). I'd advise to let it rest 24 hours, which will let all the fumes dissipate, and let all the tuning to settle in. Check the pitch of the reeds again, and fine tune if necessary.

BTW, thanks for the great info Jim!
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Super Awesome!
The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"

Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2010 12:58 PM
jim
4 posts
Jan 11, 2010
12:31 PM
Yes, the glue method will work too. Health-wise, I think both methods are rather bad. You either have some lead inside, or breath glue (haven't used glue for tuning, correct me if I'm wrong here)...

The big advantage of solder is it is HEAVY! I once retuned an sp.20 G->lowA ! You need lots of heavy stuff for such work. Apart from that, overheating the reed is crap, for sure. And if you spill the solder on the reedplate - that's where real fun starts...

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www.truechromatic.com
isaacullah
560 posts
Jan 11, 2010
12:58 PM
jim, I read this article which convinced me that using super glue in harp is fine if you make sure the glue is completely cured first. I have only tuned a reed down by at most two semitones, so I'm not sure how far glue will let you take things. I think Pat Missin recommends mixing some brass filings in with the glue to give it more heft if it is needed. But soldering always seemed so much more difficult to me! :)
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Super Awesome!
The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
nacoran
776 posts
Jan 11, 2010
1:15 PM
When I play my G Chrometta using just blow notes I get this scale:

G G# B C D D# G

1/2 step
1/2 step
1/2 step
whole step
1/2 step
2 steps

I have no idea what mode that is closest to, but it sounds pretty cool. I can do some Turkish and Spanish sounding stuff.

Edit:
1/2 (G-G#)
1 1/2 (G#-B)
1/2 (B-C)
1 (C-D)
1/2 (D-D#)
2 (D#-G)

That's what I get for trying to count with one hand and type with the other.

Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2010 7:46 PM
congaron
417 posts
Jan 11, 2010
1:47 PM
Ab (G#) to B is a whole step and a half.

I just called the music store about the Hohner educator 10 chromatic..he said he can get me one for 35 bucks, just like online...i am investigating chromatic tunics/details/etc. I think I may want to learn it.

Is the chrometta a 12 hole harp?

Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2010 1:49 PM
jim
5 posts
Jan 11, 2010
2:10 PM
yes, it's 12 holes, but quality sucks...
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www.truechromatic.com
GermanHarpist
943 posts
Jan 12, 2010
3:06 AM
jim, "if you remember those times when you used those things instead of a calculator"... well I know off them ;)

Btw. why do you advice soldering/adding weights sooner with a Hohner? Are the reeds thinner, or what?

Isaac, cool tip with the glue and such...
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
jim
6 posts
Jan 12, 2010
3:51 AM
I'm just NOT advising to file the high reeds of Hohners UP in pitch. They usually can't sustain a +1semitone alteration, and go "soft" - if you ever file a reed to that condition, you'll see what I mean.

Basically, the rule of thumb is - if you file the reed up, and it goes down in pitch - that means it's totalled. I once had a NEW sp.20 that had a dead 10draw. Luckily, you can find a broken MarineBand classic, and use it as reed replacement (sp20/GM/MB, and OLD bluesharps have identical reeds)

Just don't FILE high reeds up. Down is fine, but not up. Use glue/solder/whatever else.
You've got good engineering skills, so I think tuning a harp will be no problem for you. All you need is a good tuner, and a developed "tuning breathing".
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www.truechromatic.com


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