Komuso
423 posts
Sep 21, 2014
8:27 PM
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Hey, remember when both Bob Dylan and Neil Young switched to electric?
Didn't they piss off a lot of acoustic fans!
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
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Frank
5351 posts
Sep 22, 2014
3:54 AM
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One of my favorites from Adam - extremely fearless pioneering video Master Teacher :)):
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The Iceman
2099 posts
Sep 22, 2014
5:55 AM
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Never said that unique voice development was the same as music technique. A lot of what Komuso recently posted is correct. I fully understand that it's more than music theory, but it is tied into improvisational skills.
1847...
Basically, I don't use a "lick based approach" aside from starting with what I call "The Mutha of All Blues Licks", which is simplified down to it's most basic form (2 hole inhale to 4 hole inhale - hold there for a moment - then resolve down to 2 hole inhale. This is that most universal chord progression I - V - I, the beginning of musical gravitational pull understanding).
Then we start to flesh out or add a note or two to this basic formula.
I call the movement between I and V "The Ascension" and the resolution from V to I "The Dismount".
Variations on this simple idea are introduced, showing how it can be evolved to a more interesting line.
Then the student goes out and listens to a lot of his favorite harmonica players' solos and begins to hear this basic idea in their playing - with their unique spins added.
Once they get comfortable with the understanding, I introduce a tactile sense of feeling the musical gravity.
This is done with a rubber band hanging off their little finger. They will play the harmonica holding it in that one hand. When they move from the I idea to the V where it is sustained, I have them pull the end of the rubber band with their other hand, stretching it out creating a feeling of tension. Upon instigating "The Dismount", they release the rubber band which releases the feeling of tension.
It is a fun way to get them to emotionally and tactile feel what is going on musically. Works better than words to try to instill understanding.
Then I have them start to come up with their own little twists to add to ascending and dismounting, keeping the basic "shape" or arc of the idea intact.
At the same time as this is going on, I may add the "playing off the groove" concept I used to call "The Church of the Sacred Hut-tah Hut-tah", which is instilling a solid sense of momentum to which one attaches the notes of their musical line.
You can hear examples of this momentum theory in the playing of Little Walter (Too Late), a lot of Kim Wilson's playing and especially in the guest teaching of Rick Estrin (on Sonic Junction) in which he demonstrates his own groove momentum sound within those lessons.
Anyways, this is much easier done in person w/students than typing on a computer keyboard.
btw, just like the resistance I found when I discovered one can teach a beginner to bend to pitch within one or two weeks (from those that unfortunately had to spend years on it), I am experiencing the same resistance in claiming that individual voice can also be introduced and developed early on - thereby bypassing that "years to learn" stuff.
I'm not trying to convince anyone to change their ingrained personal beliefs - very hard to do. Just reporting on my successes.
You can believe it or not.
Just stop attacking me because you don't "get it".
(I can't take the abuse anymore..sob...)
Hey Frank - because I insist on persevering in the face of so much resistance, does this make me a "Fearless Teacher"?
(koff)
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Sep 22, 2014 5:57 AM
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Frank
5354 posts
Sep 22, 2014
6:56 AM
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Trying to promote oneself as a "teacher" in 2014 by just their (typed presence) is a serious liability...
In this day and age, having zero video web presence to back up a teachers typed presence probably causes a lot of players to question the teachers sincerity in really wanting to help them get better at the harp, stage presence, gear -etc, etc...
If a Teacher can start backing up their beliefs, philosophies and insights in a {visual media} - they'll most likely find a fan base that seriously "Gets It" :)
Think of it as FEARLESS TEACHING !
Don't be afraid to step out of the comfort zone of your type writer, Let your passion come to life...
Fearless Teaching By Video, now that is a concept we can all agree upon :)
---------------------------------------------------
THIS THREAD... is about teaching by video fearlessly :)):
Here is a senior couple showing how fun and easy it is to get started on computer cam !
Last Edited by Frank on Sep 22, 2014 6:58 AM
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Michael Rubin
964 posts
Sep 22, 2014
6:58 AM
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Iceman,
I would really like a detailed explanation of training people to bend on pitch in a few weeks. You have referred to it a lot but never laid it out. Is it that you don't want to give the milk for free? If so, how much is a Skype lesson?
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The Iceman
2100 posts
Sep 22, 2014
6:59 AM
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Guess I got confused.
Title of the thread is "Fearless Teaching".
Don't see anything in the title about "Fearless Video Teaching".
Maybe you should start a new thread to eliminate the confusion.
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The Iceman
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The Iceman
2101 posts
Sep 22, 2014
7:01 AM
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Michael,
You will find all the info in many previous postings regarding using the tongue placement to control the bends, so it has been laid out.
Not into retyping all that stuff. Too much work and I'm lazy.
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The Iceman
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Frank
5355 posts
Sep 22, 2014
7:14 AM
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If anyone is confused here is the premise of the thread :)):
Fearless Teaching
Trying to promote oneself as a "teacher" in 2014 by just their (typed presence) is a serious liability...
In this day and age, having zero video web presence to back up a teachers typed presence probably causes a lot of players to question the teachers sincerity in really wanting to help them get better at the harp, stage presence, gear -etc, etc...
If a Teacher can start backing up their beliefs, philosophies and insights in a {visual media} - they'll most likely find a fan base that seriously "Gets It" :)
Think of it as FEARLESS TEACHING !
Don't be afraid to step out of the comfort zone of your type writer, Let your passion come to life...
Fearless Teaching By Video, now that is a concept we can all agree upon...
One of my favorite fearless teaching videos by Mr. Rubin :)):
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The Iceman
2102 posts
Sep 22, 2014
7:18 AM
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Frank...
I think everyone gets it by now. No need to cut/paste your premise over and over.
Do you suffer from lastextitus?
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The Iceman
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Michael Rubin
965 posts
Sep 22, 2014
7:26 AM
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Larry, I have seen multiple threads discussing the basic concept, but as far as I remember none telling where to put your tongue for 1 draw C# on a C harp 2 draw single bend F#, 2 draw double bend for F, etc. In other words, I want specifics. I would either like you to spell out the tongue placement for each note, or direct me to a thread where you discuss it. If you even remember the title of a thread, that would help. Thanks.
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Frank
5356 posts
Sep 22, 2014
7:28 AM
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Glad Michael's excellent teaching video solved the confusion problem on what this thread is about :)):
Some tips for amateur video teachers who are nervous and afraid to get started :)
Last Edited by Frank on Sep 22, 2014 7:28 AM
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Michael Rubin
966 posts
Sep 22, 2014
7:38 AM
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Larry, I found this:
There are specific target spots on the roof of your mouth. Think of them as if you drew a little "x" up there with a sharpie.
The spots are the ones that your tongue touches (or points towards) when you say "T" "D" "Rrr" "K" and "GUH".
If you say the above sounds over and over again, you'll get a sense of the exact spots and how they start just behind your upper front teeth and end up back towards where the throat begins. You'll also begin to feel how the tongue curve "slides" back and forth. It's similar to the feel your tongue has when you whistle a high note and slide it down to a low note.
Using this movement and inhaling gently, you will eventually find the "sweet spots" for all the bends .. i.e., where you need to move the least amount of tongue to get the most amount of bend control.
The bends begin near the "T", "D" area - for instance - the first 3 hole inhale bend. As the tongue arc moves back, the other bends are revealed.
One exercise is to gently make the 3 hole inhale with bends create that sound of a falling bomb (from the old movies)...smoothly dropping in pitch until you hit the "floor" with your tongue arcing towards the "Guh" area.
What's important to note about this approach is that now you finally have a quantified target spot for each bend and all the areas between them. "X" marks the spot on the roof of the mouth.
Total beginning students introduced to bending technique in this fashion will have all their bends controlled at pitch within a week or two.
Contrast this with how most learned (gee, just keep at it and eventually you'll get them). It took me years to bend accurately following this long and winding path up the mountain.
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Jun 26, 2013 5:04 AM
Larry,
Is this a good example or are there better ones? Perhaps because it is written, this makes very little sense to me. Are you saying that to play 3 draw single bend I am supposed to put the tip of my tongue where the T sound is? For 3 double the D sound? Or am I supposed to arc the back of my tongue way forward in my mouth so that it touches where the tip of my tongue would say T?
I am not trying to bait you, I am trying to help my students. My interpretation of your method feels very uncomfortable and is not getting the desired pitch.
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1847
2206 posts
Sep 22, 2014
7:43 AM
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i find it hysterical, people making demands
on someone who is happy to help others
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money as debt
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Michael Rubin
967 posts
Sep 22, 2014
7:52 AM
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1847, perhaps you are talking about others. I am not demanding Larry teach, I am requesting it and have even offered to pay for his information.
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The Iceman
2103 posts
Sep 22, 2014
7:54 AM
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me too, 1847.
Frank - "Some tips for amateur video teachers who are nervous and afraid to get started :)"
Many realize that quite a few of your postings (and smileys) are still directed towards me.
While I appreciate all the work you do to post those helpful "how to" videos for amateur teachers, it won't get me to move in the direction you want, although I am sure all the other amateur teachers on this list will find the information valuable.
Michael - tip of tongue on those sounds creates a target spot on the roof of the mouth - "x" marks the spot, so to speak. These points are where one may "aim" that lump in the tongue towards to create the bends.
I am just offering a quantitative fixed point to work with, rather than a vague area.
Everyone eventually finds their own personal target spots to aim at and recreate exactly the bend they wish to produce.
addendum - using the above concept, even if I go totally deaf, I would still be able to bend to pitch (although not as totally razor sharp as if I still had hearing).
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Sep 22, 2014 8:23 AM
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JInx
893 posts
Sep 22, 2014
9:24 AM
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frank is building a human centipede, and you are his next link
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Michael Rubin
968 posts
Sep 22, 2014
10:02 AM
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So to repeat back to you, you have them say syllables to have a layout of the roof of the mouth. Then you have the tongue arc and the top of the arc points towards these different syllables and points in between, allowing for differences between students. The students notate which target works per note so they can relocate in the future.
OK, thanks.
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eharp
2227 posts
Sep 22, 2014
10:09 AM
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Larry was in the Detroit area about a month ago and I was able to get a lesson with him.
I was interested in his lick based approach to improvising.
He was very good at explaining it and even went so far as to find a rubber band for the visual.
Keeping in mind that I am a hobby player that many of you despise because I like to get on stage and make noise, Larry's lesson opened up my eyes to improvising.
He helped me make my solos more than just aimless noodling, gave me pointers on improving my tone and explained his tactile bending idea.
A couple of days later I was at the Bean Blossom Blues Fest, which I still don't understand why more of you aint interested in, and passed on some of this information to a couple of newbies.
Both got to bending within a 1/2 hour. Though not to pitch, they were on their way.
All this to say that I think Larry is a pretty good teacher and should not be judged by his lack of video presence.
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Honkin On Bobo
1260 posts
Sep 22, 2014
11:41 AM
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Only one MBH member, from what I can tell, judging Iceman by his "lack of a video presence".
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nacoran
8018 posts
Sep 22, 2014
11:41 AM
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JInx, watch it. That's crossing the forum creed.
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Nate
Facebook
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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harpdude61
2151 posts
Sep 22, 2014
12:01 PM
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I don't claim to be a great teacher or player. Larry does seem to blow his own horn a lot. If someone can post numerous posts a day, they can work in a video. Partner,kids, friend has a smart phone that will make a video. I don't claim to be a pro player or teacher, I am a lifetime stutterer, yet if I have a point to make, I balls up and make a sucky video. Fearless teaching? Right or wrong, it does make people think and experiment. Larry is a great teacher, that thinks highly of himself, and won't budge off his views. Ever see the episode of Happy Days where the Fonz tried to say "I was wrong" and couldn't get past " ruh ruh ruh".8
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www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
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harpdude61
2152 posts
Sep 22, 2014
12:05 PM
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Arguments and disagreements should never be about winning or losing, but about learning for everybody involved.
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www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
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Honkin On Bobo
1261 posts
Sep 22, 2014
12:06 PM
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Only two MBH members, from what I can tell, judging Iceman by his "lack of a video presence".
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The Iceman
2104 posts
Sep 22, 2014
12:09 PM
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ah yes.
Harpdude, Frank, Ted. The triumvirate.
All think they know what motivates me. I seem to rub them the wrong way.
However, so much of their assumptions are way off and it seems that if I don't do what they say I should, they dog me.
Let it go, guys.
There are many more interesting topics here in which to spend your valuable time.
The Iceman
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Ted Burke
220 posts
Sep 22, 2014
12:39 PM
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Iceman, I have never made a guess about what motivates you, criticized your teaching methods, nor made any remarks denigrating you for not posting instruction videos. Lately I have made comments on your recently active remarks about RJ's style of playing . I also defended the "wood shedding" method of learning harmonica, but not at the expense of casting doubts on the effectiveness of your method of teaching. What rubs me the wrong way is that you are asserting that Sunny Girl in this instance is blessed with original gifts because you instructed her and that RJ is little more than a clever assemblage of other people's ideas because he stopped taking lessons from you. You've asserted that several times over the last few days. No doubt you are a great one on one teacher who gets students to a better place, as I've heard some of your playing; you are quite good and obviously knowledgable, though conservative for my taste. Your talent in either area is not the issue. Your name dropping and self-referencing is.
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----
ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.com
Last Edited by Ted Burke on Sep 22, 2014 12:40 PM
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The Iceman
2105 posts
Sep 22, 2014
1:03 PM
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ah, Ted.
Sorry about lumping you in w/the other two of The Triumvirate in regards to my motivation and dogging me about posting videos.
However, RJ is a clever assemblage of other people's ideas by his own choice - not because he stopped taking lessons from me.
Everyone by now knows that you and the other 2/3 of The Triumvirate don't like my self referencing, etc.
Don't really see this as an issue to belabor for so long, though.
Time to move on.
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The Iceman
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1847
2207 posts
Sep 22, 2014
1:28 PM
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seems to me, some of the people who could benefit
the most from a little coaching, are the most resistant.
i fall in to that camp with one distinction
i am not fighting it. i can see an obvious benefit.
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money as debt
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KingoBad
1540 posts
Sep 22, 2014
1:47 PM
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I'm glad that youtube came along so that we could have "fearless teaching."
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Danny
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Frank
5357 posts
Sep 22, 2014
2:03 PM
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Thank Goodness for the very clever and fearless Teachers who care enough to share their knowledge on video and show the way to teachers you are fearful to enter the video teaching arena :)):
Last Edited by Frank on Sep 22, 2014 2:08 PM
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1847
2209 posts
Sep 22, 2014
2:16 PM
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that picture alone is enough reason to not
post a video.
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money as debt
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KingoBad
1541 posts
Sep 22, 2014
2:23 PM
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Frank, in the first part of that ungodly sentence, we are in complete agreement. It is the original idea - that you must use video to teach fearlessly - to which I take issue.
I think it is more fearless to teach a live class to a room full of harmonica players.
I think if you don't have time to make and manage your web presence, then you will do yourself more harm than good.
Sometimes having good sense trumps fearlessness...
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Danny
Last Edited by KingoBad on Sep 22, 2014 2:24 PM
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The Iceman
2106 posts
Sep 22, 2014
2:40 PM
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Michael -
Read your repeat back to me post.
Somehow the way you word it is either awkward or not simple enough. Maybe try sticking with my words.
Now, if you can't control your bends as described by my approach, you won't be able to teach this technique.
If you want to go down this path, why not rethink and rework your own bend control from this perspective first before teaching it to others.
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The Iceman
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eharp
2228 posts
Sep 22, 2014
4:13 PM
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Perhaps we shouldn't go that far Frank, with the platitudes to these teachers; "who care enough to share their knowledge".
Most are NOT doing it out of the kindness of their hearts.
They are trying to make a living out of teaching.
That being the case, having a video presence helps tremendously.
And just having a video presence does not a good teacher make. We have seen several examples of that on this forum.
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The Iceman
2107 posts
Sep 22, 2014
4:34 PM
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I can't help but get the feeling that Frank is trying to make some kind of statement in those ungodly sentences of his beyond just sharing a video with this forum.
Everything is a bit exaggerated.
and those smiley faces...they are starting to look evil...
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The Iceman
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Frank
5358 posts
Sep 22, 2014
6:12 PM
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Love to see harmonica teachers with a live band showing their students how it's done :)
This awesome musician and very caring teacher is fearlessly showing students how to play the blues by video on sonic juction - yes it's true - learn from the best - let the love Rick has for the harmonica set you free, his teaching videos - will amaze you, make you smile, touch your heart and most of all show you what real harmonica blues mojo is all about :)
Last Edited by Frank on Sep 22, 2014 6:17 PM
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Jim Rumbaugh
1025 posts
Sep 22, 2014
6:16 PM
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I'm bored
I've had enough
I'm gonna read another thread
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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JInx
895 posts
Sep 22, 2014
7:12 PM
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¿ thou salt not reference contemporary allegory ?
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tmf714
2699 posts
Sep 23, 2014
5:56 AM
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Another blues harmonica great will be teaching on Sonic Junction soon-and can definitely show Rick a thing or 2 on chrom-
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harpdude61
2153 posts
Sep 23, 2014
6:19 AM
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Frank! What could Barrett be thinking? Harp tilted, jaw dropped, and I swear I saw his Adam's Apple moving. All this for fat tone? Geeezzz!
A picture is truly worth a thousand words...and a talking video is worth 100,000!
Seriously, Ice is a great player and teacher. He obviously has a deep love for helping others. He is a regular responder to most any question posted here plus the private lessons he does. His knowledge could reach and help so so many players if he made a couple of videos.
I'll bet there is someone on this forum that lives close enough to Larry that they would be happy to come down and shoot a couple of videos for the chance to spend some time with such a great player and teacher. Come on guys...we know you are out there.
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www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
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The Iceman
2114 posts
Sep 23, 2014
6:24 AM
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Please Dude, just leave me out of your equation. Feels like you are trying to force your beliefs at me, even though you may think you are doing good.
If it is to happen, it will happen organically.
Why not just post more of your stuff instead?
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The Iceman
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The Iceman
2115 posts
Sep 23, 2014
6:42 AM
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Dude -
The ability to post and then delete it sure can be interesting at times...
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The Iceman
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nacoran
8020 posts
Sep 23, 2014
10:22 AM
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It's possible to understand and still not be able to understand. I get it but I don't get it...
I've had, on a few occasions, people that just get under my skin for whatever reason, including a couple here, but by and large, right now we've got a room full of people who would buy each other a drink if they met in real life and probably work things out fine.
If people are posting and deleting get screen shots and forward them to me. As for right now, I'm going to lock the thread for review since we have multiple complaints on it now. I need a fresh set of eyes on it and I want to lock it down before a frienemey quarrel turns into a multiple homicide by harmonica.
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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The Iceman
2119 posts
Sep 23, 2014
10:24 AM
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The Dude posting/deleting was reposted...
It was nothing offensive. I just found it interesting.
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The Iceman
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nacoran
8021 posts
Sep 23, 2014
10:31 AM
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That might have been the spam filter? I just logged on and restored some comments.
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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