Frank
5328 posts
Sep 19, 2014
7:49 AM
|
Trying to promote oneself as a "teacher" in 2014 by just their (typed presence) is a serious liability...
In this day and age, having zero video web presence to back up a teachers typed presence probably causes a lot of players to question the teachers sincerity in really wanting to help them get better at the harp, stage presence, gear -etc, etc...
If a Teacher can start backing up their beliefs, philosophies and insights in a {visual media} - they'll most likely find a fan base that seriously "Gets It" :)
Think of it as FEARLESS TEACHING !
Don't be afraid to step out of the comfort zone of your type writer, Let your passion come to life...
Fearless Teaching By Video, now that is a concept we can all agree upon :)
Last Edited by Frank on Sep 19, 2014 7:52 AM
|
HarpNinja
3924 posts
Sep 19, 2014
7:58 AM
|
Frank,
You should move to Minnesota. You are the epitome of, "Minnesota Nice".
----------
Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
Rock Harmonica Lessons
|
The Iceman
2085 posts
Sep 19, 2014
8:00 AM
|
Yup.
Being an analog guy, I don't have the skills/experience needed in today's digital age to qualify for your definition of what is 2014 proper.
Still using old tower computer with Windows XP - no video camera and very limited knowledge to post sound/videos even if I had a camera. My cell phone does take videos, but poor quality pix/sound, and it would be a struggle for me to get it out of the phone and into the computer - that's how limited my digital interest is.
Right now, I don't have the time/desire to go for it, but hopefully this will change in the near future.
Question my sincerity if you like. Having turned out students like Sunny Girl and RJ Harman helps my credibility, I hope.
Also, private students seem to enjoy their time with me.
Sorry if I'm not current enough for you. I do, however, get a lot of off list emails from readers here thanking me for opening their eyes and inspiring them.
----------
The Iceman
|
Frank
5329 posts
Sep 19, 2014
8:17 AM
|
Being Current isn't a problem with today's typing Teachers... it's being fearful of the camera :)
|
1847
2183 posts
Sep 19, 2014
8:23 AM
|
personally, i would "jump" at the chance
to study with larry.
i feel i have a reasonable grasp of our little instrument.
but i like to learn.
no doubt i have picked up many bad habits
seeing as i am for the most part self taught.
i see quite a few players who are afraid
to have any one show them anything.
like there is something to prove by
having learned with out any help.
----------
|
KingoBad
1538 posts
Sep 19, 2014
8:23 AM
|
Holy crap, it this a worthless/veiled thread.
If your life was web only, perhaps this premise might even hold an ounce of weight.
Frank, get out of the house.
----------
Danny
|
Kingley
3697 posts
Sep 19, 2014
8:42 AM
|
I can see the reasons why a teacher should have some kind of online audio/visual example of their teaching matter. After all we do live in the digital age and it makes sense for it to be utilised from a teaching perspective and to not only draw potential clients to a teacher, but also as a device by which student and teacher can interact over long distances and different time zones/countries. Musical data can be submitted, uploaded, presented and examined without two people ever meeting. Sonic Junction, Bluesharmonica.com, Ronnie Shellist, Jason Ricci, etc, etc are great examples of this.
As a person who promotes modernism in harmonica playing I'd have thought that Larry (who I'm presuming Frank has aimed this thread at ) would be well aware of the benefits of the digital age and would make a concerted effort to learn ways to incorporate it into his teaching and reach a wider student base and spread his message to a far wider audience. I'm not having a go at Larry. I'm merely calling it as I see it.
If it weren't for the digital age then I'd wager that most of the players/techs/teachers on this forum wouldn't even be aware of each other. Many of the younger players might not have gotten into the instrument without the benefits of the digital age. Certainly we wouldn't have seen the amount of young players influenced by Jason Ricci without the internet. Those young people would most likely have never heard of Jason at all, if it weren't for the internet. I say to all, that we should embrace technology and use it, because it is by far one of the best educational tools available if used correctly.
Last Edited by Kingley on Sep 19, 2014 8:43 AM
|
1847
2186 posts
Sep 19, 2014
8:47 AM
|
in the immortal words of clint eastwood
there are only two things stopping you
fear and common sense
----------
money as debt
|
The Iceman
2086 posts
Sep 19, 2014
9:20 AM
|
Guess what, guys.
I am a full time gourmet food creator/production facility operator/small retail store at front/wholesaler with eyes on bigger fish...
When Vicki takes a break for a cigarette, I will check the computer and post here.
Harmonica playing/teaching at this time is my hobby - not income producer. I do it mostly for fun.
Posting gives me the opportunity to sharpen my writing and communication skills.
If I were counting on income from teaching, of course I would get with the program so gloriously outlined above.
If you can't accept me for what I am at this time and I fall below your expectations of how a teacher should operate, not much I can do about it.
Regardless, I still feel I have much value and insight/info to offer to the community and will continue to do so in my limited capacity at this time.
btw, no fear of camera or anything else involved in my decision right now. Merely a matter of my priorities.
----------
The Iceman
|
Jim Rumbaugh
1024 posts
Sep 19, 2014
9:45 AM
|
Just because a guy can play, does not mean he can teach.
And
Just because a person can teach, doesn't mean he can play.
A video is helpful, but it ain't everything.
----------
theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
|
Diggsblues
1561 posts
Sep 19, 2014
10:05 AM
|
presence on the web doesn't always translate to students.
Sometimes the web works against you with so many free lessons some good and some sooooooooooo bad.
I have over 65 thousand views on youtube and I have one
student. I gave a free class at the twisted tail in philly for
a christmas present one year for the harp players at the
jam and they loved it but not one ever took a lesson but they always ask when I'm gonna do another one.
----------
|
yogi
77 posts
Sep 19, 2014
10:13 AM
|
I have a harmonica teacher, no virtual presence at all. We enjoy the company found in the real world.
You could extend your thread to 'fearless playing'. The idea of getting out playing with other musicians, showing how you feed off and contribute to the interplay of musicians.
Noodling along to preloaded over rehearsed backing tracks with no risk of the unexpected, the challenge of affecting others and adapting to add to the sum of the part does not demonstrate the ability to play the harmonica.
Heal thyself preacher
|
Ted Burke
209 posts
Sep 19, 2014
10:23 AM
|
----------I find unseemly for someone to start threads that are essentially about how effective they are as a teacher. It is not an attractive habit.
----
ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.com
|
The Iceman
2088 posts
Sep 19, 2014
10:29 AM
|
I agree with Ted.
----------
The Iceman
|
Frank
5333 posts
Sep 19, 2014
10:32 AM
|
Extract thy beam from yea own eye children :)
|
nacoran
8007 posts
Sep 19, 2014
12:39 PM
|
Kingo, I'm throwing a moderator flag on that comment. It's fine to disagree with someone on a thread but the options are do it civilly or avoid the thread altogether. Other people have commented usefully on the topic while disagreeing or expanding on the idea. Moderator powers, deactivate.
Ted, I'd agree that it's unseemly for someone to toot their own horn, but I think that's different than what Frank is suggesting. If you want to show that you are a good teacher, show people how you teach and if you want them to hire you, let them know you are available and pricing etc. If you run a mattress store you can say, 'Hey, we have the best prices' but if you are running something where the goods are less quantifiable you have to show them what you are offering.
Jim, that's true. If he can teach though, perhaps he can demonstrate that in a video, although I guess it depends on his teaching strengths. Some people are great lecturers, other great at demonstrating, (both which could translate well on YouTube) but other teachers have a knack for spotting the exact moment a confused look comes over a students face and re-explaining the point from a slightly different perspective, or asking a student a question that will bring enlightenment. That may not translate as well on YouTube.
Yogi, I think that's a particularly good point, especially if you are trying to market face to face lessons. It stands to reason that if you get out locally you'll find local customers. If you are doing Skype lessons you can widen the advertising sweep with internet videos.
Diggs, what's that old saying about not buying the cow if the milk is free? :) Of course, there is no way to keep your neighbor from giving out free milk, so I guess in that situation you can always look to sell advertising on the side of the cow with an adsense account, as it were. Of course, that can get complicated. A great way to get views is to do a great versions of a great song, and unless you are lucky enough to have originals that are household names that means doing covers, which means there are all sorts of extra copyright hoops to jump through to keep your videos from getting taken down. I would think, given the number of views that covers get on YouTube that Google would be lobbying for some streamlining of the legal system and royalty system. I suspect if they made an honest effort to support the artists rather than the middlemen they could, at this point, put a pretty good squeeze on the record companies and ASCAP.
Iceman, gourmet hey? That is a skill that I wish translated better on YouTube. When a guy says they can blow a mean harp they can post a video and you can hear it. I'm not a small guy, but if I could instantly get samples of the food by clicking a button under the video they'd have to take me out on a forklift. :) Sadly, the most advanced cooking I do is setting the power level on my microwave. :(
Well said Kingly.
1847, me, I have a fear of common sense!
HarpNinja, I hadn't heard of Minnesota nice. It's much more pleasant than nicknames we have around here. Our nicknames are usually less self selected and usually are uttered under our breath when someone with a Massachusetts licence plate cuts us off or on one of those rare occasions when the Red Sox are doing better than the Yankees. :)
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
First Post- May 8, 2009
|
A440
204 posts
Sep 19, 2014
1:17 PM
|
I think web presence is overrated. As the web becomes more commercialized and invasive of privacy, people are switching off. I quit facebook years ago and look at Youtube less and less.
If you can hang a poster in the local library or pub, and find students, why not? Your teaching will be judged by students and your reputation will grow by word of mouth. Real communities are a lot more interesting than virtual ones. I have met some really fantastic musicians who have no web presence at all.
So I don't think there are any hard and fast rules.
Last Edited by A440 on Sep 19, 2014 1:30 PM
|
nacoran
8010 posts
Sep 19, 2014
1:26 PM
|
A440, I just saw a flyer for a local teacher at the local Paneras. They were advertising for piano/guitar/harmonica lessons. It seemed to me that with a triple threat that might make sense, but if they were just a harmonica teacher, the chance that someone wanting to learn harmonica would spot that flyer seem fairly low. Being able to teach multiple instruments, including a couple more popular instruments probably helps a lot. Of course, there is a middle ground. There are lower tech hi tech options like putting an ad up on Craigslist (or even in the newspaper, although Craigslist is free).
I actually did that once trying to start a harmonica club. I got one response, from someone who wanted to learn. I really wasn't ready to teach, but I gave them some lessons for free on the theory that it would help me learn a bit to to articulate my thoughts.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
First Post- May 8, 2009
|
A440
205 posts
Sep 19, 2014
1:42 PM
|
True. Teaching multiple instruments will pull more clients.
Funny, after one of the gigs our band played, a guy came up to me and complimented my harp playing. He then told me he bought his first harp and was learning. He asked me if I could recommend any teachers, so I gave him my number and we did a few classes. It was fun to teach, and I think I also learned something in the process.
Last Edited by A440 on Sep 19, 2014 1:45 PM
|
The Iceman
2090 posts
Sep 19, 2014
1:48 PM
|
Teaching is definitely one way to keep yourself improving on harmonica.
Everyone who is intermediate should have the experience of teaching a rank beginner how to play.
----------
The Iceman
|
Frank
5336 posts
Sep 19, 2014
1:51 PM
|
Professional Fearless Teaching by video is an art unto itself, a true skill and surely requires serious talent.
Some Teachers are better then others and putting ones-self on video proves this truth fairly well.
Just like standing on a stage don't make you a musician or having a baby a Father, Teaching on video won't necessarily make you a Teacher.
Lee Sankey is a great role model for up and coming video Teachers to study.
And if you have yet to see Rick Estrin Teaching via Video on Sonic Junction - he will blow your mind, it is as if he is personally with you - showing you the ropes, and he does it with style, poise and dead on expertise!
Last Edited by Frank on Sep 19, 2014 1:58 PM
|
BronzeWailer
1456 posts
Sep 19, 2014
3:38 PM
|
I find the Iceman's typed insights very useful. Often pithy and they resonate with my learning center, so thanks Larry. You couldn't give all this advice without knowing how to play, IMHO, so no "proof" necessary. Your ideas are thought provoking too Frank, and I know you can play. I look for knowledge/advice in whatever form I can find it. Lee Sankey's vids are excellent, as are Estrin's. One day I'll get around to signing up with Dave Barrett too.
I consider everyone my teacher, in music and in life. Some I strive to emulate, and some are examples to avoid.
BronzeWailer's YouTube
|
KingoBad
1539 posts
Sep 19, 2014
3:43 PM
|
Nate, understood. I don't want to be on the no-fly list...
I could moderate my language, but the nature of the OP has been edited, so my subtlety or un subtlety is lost.
It is a bad logical premise to thing that a teacher would have credibility problems without a video web presence - or that it would have anything to do with being fearless.
Winslow Yerxa does not have a tremendous video presence on YouTube, but jeez, no teaching credibility problems there...
There is no question that it can help, but is nowhere near necessary.
My suggestion to get out of the house and play in the real world still stands...
I'll go back to snarking in my head only now...
----------
Danny
|
didjcripey
820 posts
Sep 19, 2014
4:01 PM
|
I don't recall Iceman soliciting for students. I don't see any reason to question his credibility, unless its a reflection of ones own fears and insecurities.
I do recall seeing a vid someone posted ages ago of Iceman playing. He can definitely play. His comments and insights I find valuable and interesting.
Let the bitch fights continue..... I find them entertaining.
----------
Lucky Lester
|
Michael Rubin
956 posts
Sep 19, 2014
4:24 PM
|
Larry has bothered me plenty, but he's a great teacher with great ideas.
|
JInx
891 posts
Sep 19, 2014
8:27 PM
|
i don't care who she used for lessons, i just want to see more from Sunny Girl....she rocks
----------
|
The Iceman
2091 posts
Sep 20, 2014
3:25 AM
|
Even younger Sunny Girl playing "Blues in a Dream" by Jerry Portnoy.
Later vid of Sunny Girl w/her band. That's proud me on keys. (Not one of her best tunes, but there is little available on the web to see these days).
The Iceman
|
Kingley
3698 posts
Sep 20, 2014
4:15 AM
|
It's relatively easy to teach children any musical instrument. They are like sponges and absorb and assimilate content very quickly. However in the long run that doesn't make them good/great players. They can often appear to be competent players and mature beyond their years. In many cases though that isn't really the case. They are often little more than performing monkeys wheeled out for the "Awww" factor. Usually they are surrounded by much older, more musically accomplished musicians, who are often doing the heavy lifting musically speaking. If you take the "child prodigy" out of that environment, they are in many cases only able to play parrot fashion the lines they have learned and lack the musical knowledge to truly create music.
That is not to say that there aren't exceptionally gifted young players out there, because there are.
The majority I suspect though are just kids who learn to do something because it's fun or because they have been pushed into it by parents wishing to live vicariously through them, or to imitate a family member or friend they admire. That is for the most part relatively short lived and in most cases they simply outgrow the apron strings of their parents and rebel against them, or simply outgrow that particular fun game of playing music and move onto some other interest in life. That's just what kids do.
Now I'm not saying that is the case with Sunny Girl. I'm merely adding some clarity to the discussion on the subject of teaching. All of this needs to be looked at subjectively with an open mind. Personally (and I suspect Larry will disagree with me) I'd say that RJ Harman is a better promotional example of Larry's teaching than Sunny Girl. Ok he may not have embraced the ideals that Larry attempts to inspire his students to reach. He is however (from the last I heard at least) a jobbing musician and is making money from his chosen career path. Whilst I seem to recall Sunny Girl had become a graphic designer. Not that I blame her at all. It's a far better financial prospect than being a musician and of course will allow her to pursue music as a side interest if she so desires. Purely from a musical perspective though I see RJ as Larry's success story.
Last Edited by Kingley on Sep 20, 2014 4:17 AM
|
Frank
5337 posts
Sep 20, 2014
5:31 AM
|
Jerry has really stepped up to the plate in a powerful way, putting his excellent teaching skills on video to empower harp players all over world...
He is definitely to be commended for his serious contribution to helping harp players become the best they can be.
Jerry is another truly great Professional example of an expert Teacher who wants to share his love and passion for the instrument in a big way.
And he does it wonderfully - a true treasure trove of information all things harmonica.
Fearless teaching on video :)
Last Edited by Frank on Sep 20, 2014 5:39 AM
|
Ted Burke
211 posts
Sep 20, 2014
12:46 PM
|
I receive requests for video lessons quiet a bit, but the sad fact is that I am unable to usefully describe what it is I do to the sounds I make on harmonica. I can give some useful one on one advice and instruction, but on video? Not happening. I haven't the knowledge or knack to present my skill set in that way. It is not one of my talents.
----------
----
ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.com
|
The Iceman
2092 posts
Sep 20, 2014
5:00 PM
|
Kingley -
Your description of the "cute kid syndrome" is pretty apt.
From the beginning, I spoke w/Sunny Girl about this to assure that she would never go down that path. Up until the day I left Detroit, she was constantly evolving, so this was never an issue for her.
Yes, teaching kids can be easy, but Sunny Girl showed signs of maturity beyond her years from the first day I met her.
RE: RJ...
We flew RJ to Detroit with Vicki and I to attend (and I also was keyboard player) one of her showcase performances. RJ sat in for a tune, of course. I was interested to see how the two of them would get along. Sunny Girl was not impressed with RJ, as she could hear that he was copying other players ideas and had nothing unique to offer.
I understand Kingley's thoughts that RJ might be a good promotional example...However, as much as I do teach excellent technique, this is just to open the door to what I find more interesting - unique and personal ideas.
RJ was an example of what I call "Woodshedding Ability". To me, this is someone that practices scales/patterns/licks/transcribed solos over and over for hours and hours and hours, eventually increasing speed - which is impressive sounding, but anyone can do it if they spend hours and hours and hours on it.
I am more interested in unique and fascinating musical ideas.
Difference between these two approaches is that with my definition of "woodshedding", once an idea begins, if one is familiar with the idea/pattern, it is very easy to predict everything that follows right up to the last note.
The other results in refreshing and surprising musical lines/choices to a serious listener, as it is coming from a totally different place within the player.
One is accomplished technical ability.
The other is inspired artistry.
Sunny Girl is an inspired artist. RJ is an accomplished technician.
I prefer inspired artistry rather than accomplished technician as my "success story".
----------
The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Sep 20, 2014 5:03 PM
|
Frank
5343 posts
Sep 21, 2014
3:22 AM
|
Great fearless teaching video :)
|
1847
2200 posts
Sep 21, 2014
7:08 AM
|
i don't know who this rj person is.
but i admire anyone, who spends time in the woodshed.
the blues by nature is repetitive...... call and response
some of the greatest players, can cop the masters note for note
tom ball for example, has obviously spent serious time
honing sonny terry riffs, along with little walter and big walter.
i feel it is essential to master the fundamentals
to move forward.
having said that, not everyone can be a paul delay
or carlos del junco.
play the best you can, and enjoy the music.
----------
money as debt
|
Kingley
3699 posts
Sep 21, 2014
7:20 AM
|
1847 - This is RJ Harman. There's quite a lot of videos of him on YouTube.
|
Ted Burke
214 posts
Sep 21, 2014
7:30 AM
|
I'm a big fan of the woodshedding technique, which is for the student to PUT IN THE TIME and the EFFORT to learn the music they have loved and desire to do their own thing with. RJ Harmon's dedication shows, and is a modern master; he is fluid, accurate, quick and inventive in his solos. He is like any truly inspired musician who has been inspired by geniuses who came before him; you can here who got him started in his licks, but you also can hear where he is going with what he's learned. Dogging him for being a "riff player" is needless and meaningless slam . Harmon is a technical wizard and has soul and grit. I've listened closely to hundreds of harp players in my 47 years as a player, and Harmon is among the best I've come across. Great things and deserved accolades await him.
----------
----
ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.com
|
Frank
5345 posts
Sep 21, 2014
8:17 AM
|
Maybe these guys, Larry and RJ don't get along all that well?Is it possible that RJ has not spoken highly of Larry as a teacher and even dissed him in other ways - I don't know?...like many others I'm just following bits and pieces of the story line here on MBH...
Here is another superb fearless video teacher :)):
Last Edited by Frank on Sep 21, 2014 8:31 AM
|
dougharps
733 posts
Sep 21, 2014
8:31 AM
|
Ted, it did not seem to me that The Iceman was "dogging" RJ, just attempting to differentiate RJ and Sunny's approaches and stating his preference for Sunny's approach. RJ is obviously talented.
General Statement to forum:
The only "dogging" I have observed recently on the forum reminds me of the dogging of hvyj just prior to his leaving the forum. I enjoyed hvyj's theory presentations in his posts and learned from them, though I was not impressed by examples of his playing. That did not invalidate his information.
Can't we just accept input from forum members without it turning into pissing matches?
I have enjoyed and learned from The Iceman's information in posts here and on Harp-L. I don't think that video presence is necessary to be a good teacher. I don't think that providing information is a competition. I have not heard Larry play, but his approach seems to have value. Why keep up the "dogging?" No one is forcing anyone to adopt Larry's approach.
----------
Doug S.
Edit... Typo again
2nd Edit to clarify that the rest of the post was not just to Ted.
Last Edited by dougharps on Sep 21, 2014 9:55 AM
|
Ted Burke
215 posts
Sep 21, 2014
10:16 AM
|
Hi Doug;
Iceman made several references recently suggesting rather strongly that RJ's approach, while dazzling on a technical level, is something anyone can learn to do if they spend the time and have the focus. In a perfect world where every one had similar kinds of natural aptitude and willingness to spend insane chunks of time practicing their instrument , this would be true. This is far from the case, though; the majority of people interested in learning to play an instrument well simply haven't the patience, the ear, or the musical knack to strive to the lengths RJ and Sunny Girl have. Regarding wood-shedding, the proof is in the playing, and what I hear is a player as imaginative as nearly anyone else you can put up against him, including the admittedly formidable Sunny Girl. I've no doubt to Iceman's effectiveness as a teacher--I have heard him play and his abilities are in question. No doubt he can transfer that to his most willing students. The validity of any theory is in how it works, and what I hear in RJ is a player who fine and fluent and growing on his own terms. I'm sure Sunny Girl, with Iceman's early tutoring as a base, is growing as well as a musician. I thought someone just needed to stand up for the woodshedding approach.
Last Edited by Ted Burke on Sep 21, 2014 7:29 PM
|
dougharps
734 posts
Sep 21, 2014
10:56 AM
|
@Ted Burke
OK! Thanks for clarifying.
RJ has definitely benefited from woodshedding, and uses those skills to improvise in his style. He is talented and I enjoyed his playing.
That being said, listeners have varying taste in solo styles. Other than on occasion, I tend to favor a simpler tasty style of solo, with occasional songs with fireworks. When the fireworks comes, I appreciate it all the more for it not being constant.
The Iceman is entitled to prefer one over the other, though I would rather hear the focus be more on what he likes most than what he likes less.
With regard to teaching, it is hard to separate the skill of the teacher from the talent and hard work of the student. Sometimes I think it is an issue of compatibility of styles and personality of teacher and student.
I value video instruction as an approach, but I don't find that approach to be a necessary requirement of a good instructor. I don't think that web presence is a determining factor in teaching ability.
With regard to teaching theory and position, I don't know that being a fluid expressive player is as important as knowledge of theory and position and the ability to communicate.
Overall, I think musical knowledge, playing ability, and the ability to communicate the information all together make a good teacher. The medium of instruction is less important except as applies to the learning style of the particular student. Just my opinion.
----------
Doug S.
|
The Iceman
2096 posts
Sep 21, 2014
5:45 PM
|
Frank wants to know the "skinny", as he suspects some kind of animosity between RJ and I as having some weight in my comments.
I stopped teaching RJ because of a before mentioned aspect and also because he was not a stand up guy when it came to his business responsibilities.
If you ask RJ, he will say he stopped studying with me because I had no more to offer him. In a sense, this is true. At the level at which he had progressed, I started asking him to find his own voice. He wanted me to keep feeding him new licks to learn. I refused, so I had nothing more to offer him.
Remember, I spent a few years with RJ and have depth of knowledge as to who he was listening to for licks as well as what he was up to. I also have a 40 year data base in my head of many great players and their solos, as I have an inquisitive listening ear and mind. As I listen, I allow my mental image of a keyboard to appear. When I hear a solo, I can visualize the notes being played. It helps build a library in my head for future reference.
Last time I heard RJ play, it was about 60% note for note Carlos Del Junco solo reproductions, 30% Kim Wilson solos and 10% from other players I had heard.
I heard nothing that I would categorize as original.
RJ gets this. The last time I ran into him (at the Florida Harmonica Championships), I asked him if he had found his own unique voice yet. He smiled and said no.
He is happy to be gigging and impressing a lot of people that are not familiar with the original solos by the aforementioned artists. To the casual listener, they think he is great and is developing his own voice/style.
That's ok. I don't care.
It just doesn't do it for me.
I still believe that anyone can learn to become the technician RJ is if they spend the time.
I'm sorry if any of you woodshedding/lick/scale/pattern based players feel threatened by my observations. You really shouldn't care what I say.
Someone else posted something to the effect that those insecure ones are the ones that are freaking out the most.
I guess that could be true, too.
btw, thanks for the kind thoughts from those who jumped into the middle of the dogging b*tch fight and I am glad a few of you were amused by the proceedings.
Most of the members here are pretty intelligent and have the ability to see through a lot of the clever responses, smiley faces and knee jerk reactions and understand the motivation behind them.
----------
The Iceman
|
Komuso
419 posts
Sep 21, 2014
6:34 PM
|
I, like others, do get value from some of your harmonica insights Larry but it seems you're a bit of a music snob;-)
Finding your "unique voice" can take decades, and does not have to be forced just to please you.
I think I recall Kim Wilson saying something to that effect (the decades part) on one of DB's interviews.
Edit: Here
He might not find it till 3 seconds before he kicks the bucket, or he might find it next week.
Some people have it right out the gate, others take their whole lives. It is, after all, the single biggest challenge and end goal in music - to develop your own unique voice.
Sure, you can teach techniques to improvise etc but personality and brain wiring plays a huge part too...and the journey through life modulating that is part of the ride. (except for Ted Nogent;-)
I bet you RJ is learning all the time though, which is more important.
Maybe you could learn something from him in that regard?
In some ways the way you talk about RJ sounds a little like how you describe Sunny Girls Stage Dad!
Knowing what you don't know is more important than knowing what you think you do.
----------
Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Sep 21, 2014 7:47 PM
|
Frank
5348 posts
Sep 21, 2014
6:44 PM
|
Seeing the vid of Rick Estrin that Adam posted reminded me what a great learning tool seeing a band performance of a Harp Teacher is...Rick is a "gold mine" of harp and performance information.
Here is a tune were the rhythm is so cool and powerfull anyone do this on harp? Hakan?
Last Edited by Frank on Sep 21, 2014 6:45 PM
|
The Iceman
2098 posts
Sep 21, 2014
6:59 PM
|
Aye, I am a musical snob, mate.
I am on a "unique voice" mission, as it is the single musical aspect that excites me the most and most deeply.
I've been on that path most of my life, even before I could put it into words, and, as such, have had a lot of interesting experiences, had the opportunity to be in the right time at the right place to hang with the best of the best (especially in the jazz world) and just soaked up all that energy.
(Did you know that if you hung around a lot of people who operate at an extremely high vibration of creativity long and repeatedly enough, it elevates yours?).
It became part of my curiosity towards teaching as well - unique voice.
Believe it or not, over the years quite a lot of my students started showing signs of their own originality and creating unique ideas, even the beginning ones.
Since it happened so naturally and easy for me, I pretty much assumed that this is how it is for everyone.
Imagine my surprise to run into people that say "it takes decades", or "your either born with it or it takes the rest of your life" or -and I don't even understand what this means- "does not have to be forced just to please you".
Sorry if that has not been my experience.
If your reality is different than mine, don't consider yours "right" and mine "wrong".
and Kumoso, what makes you think I'm not learning all the time?
anyways, that's enough about me.
Now let's talk about you...
SPECIAL EDIT ADDITION.....
above when I posted a reply ending with
"and I don't even understand what this means- "does not have to be forced just to please you".
it was quoting Komuso's post above.
I just noticed he went in and totally edited his original post eliminating this stuff, but adding that I may be acting like Sunny Girl's dad, another comment that "I don't even understand".
Hope this makes everything a bit easier to follow to those discovering these rantings for the first time.
----------
The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Sep 22, 2014 6:08 AM
|
Komuso
420 posts
Sep 21, 2014
7:13 PM
|
>>and Kumoso, what makes you think I'm not learning all the time?
Well, for starters you claim to have an open mind but it seems rather closed from some of your statements.
But hey, if you say so I believe you.
Improvisation can be taught from birth.
Look up Edwin E. Gordon and his Audiation music learning theory/practice for Early Childhood music skills development, and extenders of it like Dr Eric Rasmussen at Peabody Conservatory. El Sistema etc are other great examples.
I'm fully with you on the "I am on a "unique voice" mission, as it is the single musical aspect that excites me the most and most deeply." mission.
Where we differ is the definition of "unique voice".
It's much more than music theory and improvisation skills in my mind, and does take time to fully develop. It's not just coming up with different musical snippets.
It's not binary, it's analog.
It's your body, your soul, your blood, sweat and tears.
>>Now let's talk about you...
rofl. Nice redirection!
fyi I'm still working on my unique voice.
Maybe one day...
----------
Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Sep 21, 2014 7:40 PM
|
Frank
5350 posts
Sep 21, 2014
7:14 PM
|
Remember when this fearless teacher stepped into video to teach - priceless :)):
|
Komuso
421 posts
Sep 21, 2014
7:28 PM
|
Deleted...moved video embed to post above - see Kim Wilson a couple of posts up.
----------
Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Sep 21, 2014 7:47 PM
|
1847
2202 posts
Sep 21, 2014
7:47 PM
|
some of our highest paid entertainers
do impressions.
----------
----------
|
1847
2203 posts
Sep 21, 2014
7:58 PM
|
i think kim just expressed exactly what larry is saying
"you have to have your own voice in this music"
----------
money as debt
|
Komuso
422 posts
Sep 21, 2014
8:17 PM
|
yes, exactly...but it does take time, and it's not static. Neither are the learning techniques for that matter.
Developing your unique voice is a lot deeper than learning music technique. They are related, but not one in the same.
----------
Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Sep 21, 2014 8:20 PM
|
1847
2204 posts
Sep 21, 2014
8:20 PM
|
so larry what technique do you have
to teach someone how to find their own voice?
----------
money as debt
|
