MindTheGap
361 posts
Mar 20, 2014
12:18 PM
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A while ago I watched Isaacullah's great videos on half-valves and also read about PT Gazell, thanks to HarpStudy' post (below). Looks interesting but I filed it away as an adventure for another day.
Now I watch HarpNinja's rock harmonica video (the 3rd one, very good BTW) where Mike shows how to add expression mostly at the top end using single-reed bends, but without valves of course. I try it and seem to be able to get nearly a full semitone on things like the 6B. This seems pretty useful for passing notes, and potentially easier than e.g. the 5OB, plus no reed adjustment required. Is this a good technique to explore or a bit of a cul-de-sac? For blues playing I mean.
...and what does adding the valve give you? Just that the OB doesn't pop? Or can you get a deeper bend?
Gazell Method - Seydel Session Steel
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mtg
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Mar 20, 2014 12:21 PM
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HarpNinja
3828 posts
Mar 20, 2014
12:52 PM
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I think I got out of order with uploads and have another video posted recently and need to actually go back and watch to make sure I didn't post two of the same sort of talks, lol.
But yes, I do a lot of single reed bends and don't own a valved harp at this point. If you overbend, you will want to learn them that way. If you don't, half valving is helpful. It isn't necessary, but you will run less potential for squeals or accidently overdrawing.
I *try* to play single reed bends the same way I usually use vibrato - front of mount with my tongue.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
Rock Harmonica Lessons
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isaacullah
2692 posts
Mar 20, 2014
1:08 PM
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Hey MTG! Glad you found those vids of mine useful. In terms of whether or not to half valve, I think it's a matter of preference. Mike (HarpNinja) and Todd Parrot seem to prefer to do non-valved single-reed bends, and both use them with great skill and musicality. Others, like PT and Brendan Power, show similar skill with their valved harps. As Mike says, it's probably easier to get and control them with valves, but clearly valves aren't essential.
Personally, I only valve some of my harps, especially in certain alternate tuning systems. I do this because I'm also an overblow player, and I like the breathiness of a non-vlaved harp for much blues playing. For melodies, I usually use my "modern pentatonic" tuning system, which is layed out in a way that doesn't really need many overblows, but which needs lot's of control on some blow notes (vibrato, bending in and out of them, etc.). I suppose, now that I think about it, I do do some non-valved single-reed "bends" when I play melodies in 12 position, but these are more just ornaments. Honestly, I almost never use a single-reed bend to get a "missing" note. I use them as ornaments, to get vibrato, and as ways to move between notes. So for me, I like the flexibility of doing it both ways.
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MindTheGap
362 posts
Mar 20, 2014
2:07 PM
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Mike - well, the 3rd vid (on your thread here) definitely has the stuff about single-reed bends. And I'm very pleased it does, it looks like rich pickings - adding expressiveness to the top end.
I think I need some earplugs to practice that 10B'' vibrato though. I can do it a bit but those ears are a-ringing afterwards.
Isaac - OK, I'm going to see what I can get out of non-valved for now. It may be just dips rather than proper notes, but even that is good.
Thanks again for the helpful vids.
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mtg
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mlefree
148 posts
Mar 20, 2014
5:19 PM
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Pardon my iggernance, but I don't know how to do an unvalved single reed bend. Do I take it that you need to be an overblower to do it (I'm not) and that you have to choke the non-bent reed first?
Thanks,
Michelle
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SilverWingLeather.com
email: mlefree@silverwingleather.com
Last Edited by mlefree on Mar 20, 2014 5:20 PM
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isaacullah
2693 posts
Mar 20, 2014
5:44 PM
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Michelle, you don't have to be an overblower, but it perhaps could help a little. Unlike an overblow, it's not the opposite reed the produces the bent note, but the "normal" reed that bends. So you don't "choke" the reed, but the way you get the single reed bend is similar to how you would try to choke the reed if you were going to attempt an overblow. Does that make any sense? :)
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Harp Study
19 posts
Mar 20, 2014
7:01 PM
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Isaacullah-
I would also like to thank you for those great videos on valving. I've probably done around 10 harps now with your valving technique and just love them.
MTG-
I just finished Mike's latest video and it made me wonder why I've been putting on all these valves if I don't need them. So I pulled out a non-valved harp and compared it to a valved one in the same key. Keep in mind I'm not very good at over bends. I used to be ok at the 4, 5 & 6, but not great and now that I mostly play valved harps I don't practice them much.
Essentially I was able to get the inflection bends on the non-valved harp for the higher notes (7-10) pretty easily, but the lower notes I didn't have much luck. Probably mostly my technique, but I would bet it would be very difficult to do on the lower holes like 1 & 2 without valves.
It seems like the valved harps were easier to control the bends on. The valves that isaacullah shows how to make are great and super easy to make. If you don't like them just peel them off. The gaffers tape is great for lots of stuff because it just peels off and doesn't leave an residue; unlike duct tape.
Anyway - I thought I would through in my two cents.
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GMaj7
385 posts
Mar 20, 2014
7:57 PM
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Good stuff here.. Great discussion. Here's an article from my web site that I wrote on the subject. It may help a few understand the concept a little better .. and then again it may just cause more confusion..
http://1623customharmonicas.com/2014/01/24/half-valving-diatonic-wind-savers-and-the-single-reed-bend/
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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MindTheGap
364 posts
Mar 21, 2014
1:00 AM
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Harp Study - I see. OK I tried that also found that I can much more easily get the single-reed bends on the higher holes.
GMaj7 - thanks for the extra info. And indeed the useful extra note I can get right now (well, sort of) is the Major 7th :-)
Although there is a promising dip on the 2B, which would be very useful for 1st position playing as shaving a bit off the 2B gives a blue 3rd. Bit breathy though. Maybe you could make a feature of that?
Proposition: for chromatic playing, you need the valves, and for inflection/expression esp at the top end you don't?
HarmonicasDirect in the UK sell 14 windsavers for £12.50, so I think the DIY solution is attractive, or the pre-setup Seydels like on GMaj7's site.
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mtg
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Mar 21, 2014 1:01 AM
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MindTheGap
365 posts
Mar 21, 2014
1:25 AM
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...I think I've got the lesson numbers wrong too. This good stuff is in lesson 4, but you referred to it as being in 5? Maybe there is more on single-reed bends in #5.
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mtg
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HarpNinja
3834 posts
Mar 21, 2014
9:53 AM
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I'll have time tomorrow to double check the order of vids, because I am pretty sure I screwed up.
Regarding the single reed bends...
I play them like I would on a valved harp when bending for inflection. You can play a vavled bend to pitch (or close enough) with some force relative to bending for inflection.
I've found I can do this on most harps, but obviously the more responsive the harp, the easier it is to try and to a single reed bend.
I only use these on holes 4-10...generally to add vibrato or as a dip bend.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
Rock Harmonica Lessons
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mlefree
149 posts
Mar 21, 2014
10:49 AM
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Thanks, Isaac. And yes, that actually does make sense.
Michelle
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SilverWingLeather.com
email: mlefree@silverwingleather.com
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isaacullah
2694 posts
Mar 21, 2014
12:06 PM
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@Michelle: Glad it made sense! :)
@GMaj7: Great info!
@HarpStudy: Really glad that I was able to help! Cool to hear that you've had success with my method of making valves!
@MTG "Proposition: for chromatic playing, you need the valves, and for inflection/expression esp at the top end you don't?" Yeah, I think that's probably fair to say. The valves do make everything easier, but they take away the possibility of overblows, and they change the way the harp responds.
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