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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Todd Parrott tuning users?
Todd Parrott tuning users?
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dougharps
531 posts
Jan 31, 2014
2:10 PM
I finally got around to tuning a drawer-dwelling key of C Lee Oskar to the flat 7 draw tuning, or "Todd Parrott tuning." There is a thread below that discusses this, as well as a link to video.

thread on TP tuning




I find it really cool for playing single note lines, though nowhere as cool as Todd sounds when he plays.

One obvious issue with this tuning is that you don't want to play the chord with the 6 draw A and 7 draw Bb together, but you wouldn't want A and B together, either.

Are there downsides to this tuning that I should know? I may retune some Special 20s to this tuning, but I thought I would start with an old LO. The LO is tough to overblow, and Special 20s (and higher end Hohners) are what I currently like, but I don't want to risk them until I am sure about the tuning.

Also, I just weakened the reed at the base to drop the LO a half step. I know that this will most likely affect reed life. What is the preferred way to drop pitch a half step? Solder? BluTack? I have never tried either of these, since usually I am tuning sharp, not flat.

Any information, comments, or suggestions would be welcome.
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Doug S.
isaacullah
2618 posts
Jan 31, 2014
2:27 PM
My main set if Richter's are all TP tuned now. There's no downside as far as Ive found... Like you say, you don't want to draw the 6 & 7 together, but you don't loose the original note since its available as 7 blow bend now. I love this tuning! I use blu tak, and feel this is a great and permanent solution. Ive got blue taked harps that are now going on three years with no issues...
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bigd
515 posts
Jan 31, 2014
3:14 PM
Todd tuned an A for me once and I had someone else that I now forgot retune the 7 too. I keep them adjacent to my generically tuned golden Melodys in the same keys for an extra flavor choice. I have this fantasy that the anomalous note wakes up the audience but in reality i'm the one that still gets a kick when I hit that 7. Although the sound on this recording is a bit cacophonous you'll hear me hit the 7 on Todd's A a bunch! :
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dougharps
532 posts
Feb 01, 2014
7:49 AM
Thanks for the information!

I am going to get some BluTack and convert a few Special 20s to this tuning. I don't think I will do the whole set right off, just some popular keys.

I expect I will learn to adjust to switching to this tunings, since so far switching to Country tuned, Melody Maker, Paddy Richter, Minor harps and chromatic harps don't seem to be a major problem for me.
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Doug S.
Todd Parrott
1191 posts
Feb 01, 2014
10:02 AM
dougharps,

Have fun with the tuning. It took me awhile before I made it my primary tuning. I find it works better in 95% of situations than standard Richter tuning, but I still do maintain a set of Richter tuned harps, mainly for country style licks and such... and some 3rd position stuff... though both tunings work well in 3rd. There are advantages and disadvantages to every tuning, so I use whatever works best for the song.

One of the coolest things about the flattened 7 is the ability to bend the 7 blow. While you may not like playing 6 and 7 draw together, try blowing and drawing 7 and 8 together for some cool sounds, especially on lower harps. You can also blow bend 7 and 8 blow together.

Dennis is one of my favorite players and a great musician. It's very cool to hear him make use of the flattened 7 draw tuning in his video.

One last thing... in the past 15 years or so that I've been using this tuning, I haven't broken and 7 draw reeds, so I doubt that you'll have any problems with reed life as a result of tuning down the 7, as long as you aren't removing too much brass in one spot. Good luck!
dougharps
534 posts
Feb 01, 2014
12:14 PM
Thanks, Todd!
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Doug S.
jpmcbride
24 posts
Feb 14, 2014
12:28 PM
I've never tuned the 7 draw flat, but instead tuned the 6 blow sharp to get the same note. I see now that retuning the 7 draw is a better idea because it allows you to play the 2nd position blues scale on the high end without an overblow, but doesn't affect 3rd position playing as the 6 blow retune does.

The biggest issue I had was deciding where exactly to tune that note. When I tune it exactly a half step to give me the flat 3rd in 2nd position the note sounds too flat when playing blues riffs. The equivalent note on the 3 draw bend is often played in between notes, the "blue third" as opposed to the "minor third". Are you guys tuning it the full half step, or somewhere in between?


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Jim McBride
www.bottleoblues.com
HarpNinja
3769 posts
Feb 14, 2014
12:37 PM
Jim,

That is one reason why I don't tune the 7 down. In blues, that note is usually a "blue third" and not a true minor third.

If you can OB the 6, you can bend all the way to a minor third, or play it more like a blue third. That flexibility is more important for me at this point.

In addition, I use the 7 draw a ton in runs where bending to it would be ineffective. I am not dissing the tuning at all - hello, Todd Parrot rocks, but like Todd said, pros and cons.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
Martin
612 posts
Feb 14, 2014
12:52 PM
Since I´m conservative, in oh so many ways, I find that when I´ve retuned harps away from Richter I tend to use them less and less. Stupid really, since there are so many advantages.

However, for Todds preferred tuning -- or lowering in general -- the right amount of nail varnish have been completely satisfactory.
Easy to get rid of even for a klutz like me.
Todd Parrott
1198 posts
Feb 14, 2014
7:38 PM
Hi Jim,

I tune the note exactly a half step down. I understand what you and Mike are saying about it sounding minor, and I don't take any offense at all. Mike is right about pros and cons. This is true of any tuning, including Richter.

The key is how you use the note. I don't retune the 7 because I can't overblow 6, but instead I use it more as a passing note for licks in the higher register of the harp. Not only is it a very handy note to have for bouncing off of, but you can also blow bend 7 much more expressively than you can on a Richter harp, because you can now actually pull the 7 blow down a half step. Works great over the 4 chord. It also works great for 1st position blues on the high end of the harp - more expressive in my opinion.

I use the 6 overblow to duplicate the types of licks you can get in the lower register of the harp with the 3 draw bends, and I use the retuned 7 draw mainly for runs and such, and not necessarily as a note to hang out on, with the exception of minor tunes maybe.

The topic of the blue third vs. the minor third has been discussed here many times before, and someone even used the video below as an example. While I agree for the most part with what the guitar player in this video is saying, I don't think it is incorrect to use the minor third in a run, though again, I would not end a lick on it and hang there. The point he makes is a good one for instruments where you have the ability to bend the note, like a sax, harmonica, guitar, etc., but what about a piano? It's not possible on a piano (not counting the pitch bender wheel on keyboards), so you have to find ways to make it work (much easier to demonstrate on the piano than to type here). Also, anytime you slow a chord down as he does in this video, and point out the dissonance that a particular note causes, it will sound worse than it does when you hear it played in a fast, passing lick. And usually, with the harmonica, the range we are using is played an octave higher than that of the chord. In this video, he plays the minor third in the same octave as the chord. Minor thirds over major or dominant 7th chords are much more forgiving than major thirds played over minor chords. This has been discussed/debated here many times as well. Again, I'm not talking about hanging out on the minor third, or trying to resolve a lick on the minor third. There is fine line between "if it sounds good, do it" and playing the correct notes. A similar example is when the music goes to the 5 chord; I would personally not hang out on the 6 blow over the 5 chord because it just doesn't fit, at least not to my ears. You get the same unpleasant dissonance as some of the things described above, but this doesn't mean that you can't EVER play the 6 blow over the 5 chord - it works fine when used as a passing note or as part of a lick, as after all, it is a note that's in the scale of the 5 chord - both the major scale and the blues scale. Just my 2 cents, and I DO use standard Richter tuned harps as well. All in all, I think he makes a good point in this video.

GMaj7
356 posts
Feb 14, 2014
9:30 PM
Really good explanation Todd.

Not at all taking from this but instead adding that the flatted 7 draw works great in 12th position, too,

Alternate tunings work because they re-wire the brain and allow us to get out of that musical rut where we play by brail/muscle memory and not really listening. It helps get us out of the same old re-used licks.

Last November I was fortunate to be a spectator in a recording studio with Mickey Raphael. He borrowed a GM that I had re-tuned to the flat 7 draw and liked it so much he used it on 3 of the recorded tracks and then played it on stage that night.

Love these discussions and the points for AND against are outstanding. The discussions alone really stretch our musical creativity, a needed trait among harp players.. especially me.
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
Todd Parrott
1199 posts
Feb 15, 2014
6:36 AM
Hey, that's pretty cool about Mickey! Glad it was a Golden Melody and not a Seydel. ;)

Yes, the retuned 7 draw works great in many positions, like 12th, as you mentioned, and also in 11th. Sure, you can play in those positions without retuning, but it does not sound as smooth, no matter how well one can overblow the 6.
GMaj7
357 posts
Feb 15, 2014
9:55 AM
Todd, I knew the Hohner remark was coming when I pressed ENTER...
ugh..'

lol
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
Todd Parrott
1200 posts
Feb 15, 2014
11:45 AM
LOL, Greg!


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