I tune the whole harp to 443, including the 7 draw note. I don't really tune the 7 draw any sharper than the rest of the harp. I don't think I would ever tune it sharper, as I use it in other positions like 11th and 12th, and would want it to sound in-tune for those as well. Hope this helps.
Yep, it still overdraws, and you get the same overdraw note as you would get on a standard tuned harp. Sometimes players find that the overdraw will work better after you tune the 7 draw, but this is because during the tuning process, it's easy to accidentally change the gap of the draw reed (not because the tuning itself has anything to do with it).
Todd, I am strongly resiting the urge to tune my harps this way for blues shows. I concerned I'll be called a Todd Parrott rip off and end up addicted to it.
I play so much 2nd, 3rd, 11th, and 12th it really only makes sense to use this tuning. In theory, it'd be a passing note most the time, but so so ballsy.
In fact, I can't think of a reason to not use a tuning like this as I play 90% of major tunes in 12th or 11th...
***I guess you do lose the Popper 3-7 octave for rythym playing, but for blues gigs, I don't do that much anyways. ---------- Mike Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Last Edited by on Apr 04, 2011 12:43 PM
You do lose that Popper sound, however, when you play some of those same Popper-style licks with this tuning it takes on a whole new sound, and works really well in minor key if you want to play in 2nd position.
In 12th, the 7 blow takes on a more expressive sound, because you can now bend it down a half-step. In 12th, the 7 blow is the same wail note as the 4 draw would be in 2nd. I also like being able bend the 7 blow in 3rd position when needed.
In 11th, the 7 draw is the root note of course.
This doesn't mean that this is the PERFECT tuning... NO tuning is going to be perfect for every single song.... however, the flatted 7 draw sure does come in handy for the blues.
My main use for the retuned 7 draw note is for a passing note when bending and releasing the 7 overdraw. Since it's the minor 3rd, or blue note, it's a safe place to land. This is what I use it for most of the time, and not always necessarily as a substitute for the 6 overblow. I use both.
I've just taken the plunge and done this to a new C harp just to see. I am not an overblow player (not for lack of trying) and play mostly blues based stuff in 1st, 2nd and 3rd positions.
I've got to say I'm really liking this tuning. For someone like me it really opens up the top octave in 2nd position and doesn't effect my playing in 1st and 3rd.
I tune my harps to 19 Limit JI and tune down a whole 1/2 step (-100 cents)
Sorry to piggyback on this thread, but I checked out some of your vids on this tuning. Very nice playing sir.
My first harp tuition book and tape was called Harpin' It Easy by a guy called Scott McCloskey. At the end he did Rollin' In My Sweet Baby's Arms. I could never figure it out, but it sounds strikingly familiar to your playing in this tuning. I'm now wondering if he used a lowered 7 draw tuning. Do you know of this guy / recording? Is he still around?
I've still got the tape somewhere. I'll try and get it transferred and posted up here.
There is a name for this tuning - I saw it once on Pat Missin's site, but I couldn't locate it when I looked today, so I sent him an e-mail. Will let you know what I find out.
I finally tried this tuning last night. I liked it too. Seemed even more useful for 3rd position. It's not as bluesy as bending the 6OB up a bit but you can still do that if you want. Nice to be able to just jump or gliss to the note....I'm not too good at jumping a hole and hitting an OB.
I e-mailed Pat Missin to inquire about the name of this tuning, and I have pasted some information below from a couple of e-mail replies I received from him:
"Hi Todd.
That tuning has been used by a bunch of people over the years. JJ Milteau and Johnny Mars have been using it since at least the 80s. Lee Oskar has been using it in combination with other alterations for a similar length of time. Nilo Guzman was using it as his main tuning, the last I heard. I've heard repeated stories that Al Wilson was doing it back in the 60s, but there doesn't seem to be any hard evidence of that and it's definitely not what he used on tracks like "On The Road Again" (which had the 6 draw raised to get the same note)..
Despite the fact that it's been around for decades, I'm not aware of any "official" name for it. I generally refer to it as "flat 10th tuning", to distinguish it from "raised 9th tuning" (where the 6 draw reed is tuned sharp), but that's not a particularly elegant name, although it's an apt description from a cross harp perspective. "Diminished 10th" might be more musicologically acceptable, but it's also harder to type!
Lee Oskar generally pairs it with other alterations and Carlos del Junco uses one of these on "B Thing". I have a few harps made up like this, but I don't generally carry harps with just the lowered 7 draw. If I really need this tuning for something, it's really easy to rig one up temporarily with a bit of beeswax on the end of the reed.
-- Pat."
One note on the B-Thing tuning - there are other notes that are altered besides the 7 draw.
I also did a search for Johnny Mars on YouTube and found a video by Hakan Ehn in which Johnny Mars is using the flatted 7 draw tuning. Hakan seems to think it is a natural minor tuning, but isn't 100% sure. However, if you listen closely to when Johnny plays the 3 draw and the 8 blow, it is clear that this is just a major harp with the 7 draw tuned down a half step:
You can also hear Johnny using this tuning on some of the song samples on his site.
I first read about this tuning around 1991 in "The Harp Handbook" by Steve Baker, though the tuning in Steve's book mentioned tuning both the 3 and the 7 down. Then, in 1997, a friend of mine, Pete Elder (who is a monster harp player), demonstrated a harp that he'd tuned with the flatted 7 draw, and I fell in love with the tuning. I've used it ever since.
Last Edited by on Apr 07, 2011 10:27 PM
@Stevelegh For lowering/flattening the pitch of a reed, its easy to add a little weight to the end of the reed, like Pat Missin' mentioned above in Todd's post where he adds "beeswax".
Blu Tack made by Bostik is often used, and I have used it... fairly easy to apply, and really easy to remove. To apply, start with a very miniscule amount, and check with a tuning meter.
I bought a pack either on eBay or Amazon awhile ago... there are similar adhesives available, but I wanted the Blu Tack, since that's what was "hyped".
I tuned a D Marine Band to ET with a flatted 7 draw this morning. Actually, it was already ET and I just did a touch up job (it isn't a "new" harp by any means).
In doing so, I was thinking about the name question, etc. I see the benefit of not altering the 3 draw as it is so bluesy sounding bent and I think it defeats the purpose and flexibility of this minor tuning change.
I thought about a B Thing type tuning, I do have an E harp tuned in that manner), but again, it becomes more of a novelty than anything, IMHO. I also thought keeping it ET would be a good idea although a 19 Limit tuning would be a better blues tuning. My intent with the D is to use it for blues in 2nd, rock in 3rd, and major in 12th and 11th.
It could be referred to as a Flat 7 tuning...not to be confused with Flat 7th...saying it is a "blues" tuning isn't really helpful. Saying Flat 3rd isn't going to work as it isn't accurate. While a more sexy name might grant cool points, it might also make it confusing to others.
B Thing tuning is a cool name, but in reality has been used way before that. Todd Parrott tuning would work at least on this site, and I think it would be an honor for that name to stick. Unless someone else uses this tuning as often, to the extended extent, or as their main tuning, he is sort of the go to guy right now.
In all fairness just referring to flattening the 7 draw is probably enough, but a formal name seems so fun to have, lol.
A bit like 5 string open G on guitar being known as 'Keef' tuning. He didn't invent it (in fact he ripped it off Ry Cooder), and it has been around since the beginning of time, but he's the most synonymous for using it. Same again with the 'Hendrix' chord.
Most importantly to ask the man himself:
Todd: Would you be happy if we used your name here to refer to it?
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2011 10:37 AM
OK, I'm now in possesion of a Joe Spiers MB with a blob of Blu tack flattening the 7 draw
Todd: I've been watching the vid you did on YouTube and playing around. It's very intuitive and feels very natural to bend the 7 blow. I'm still hitting the 6OB, but it seems to add more to 12th position without hitting the B on the 7 draw standard tuning and sounding bad. I'm loving it.
I tired this tuning on a D harp for a gig this weekend and felt it was almost too minor sounding. I had it tuned exactly a half step down on 7 draw with the rest of the harp ET. Is it just my ears? ---------- Mike Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Well, it is similar to the way a natural minor harp is tuned (those also have the 7 draw tuned down), so it does work great for minor tunes in 2nd position, but as for it sounding too minor.... it depends on the licks you are playing. I don't use it in the same way I used to. I use the 7 draw note as a landing/passing note for the 7 overdraw bend, and I also use the 7 blow bend.
I really need to post an updated YouTube video about this tuning. Have you tried it for 11th and 12 position yet? It's works well for those.
