BluesJacketman
50 posts
Jan 02, 2014
8:25 PM
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looking for an element for my jt-30, either a CM or MC 127. if anyone could send me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated.
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Kingley
3359 posts
Jan 02, 2014
10:42 PM
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Well you basically have two choices. Either look on eBay and take your chances on finding a good one. Or pay a little more and get one from someone like Greg Heumann.
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1847
1440 posts
Jan 03, 2014
8:01 AM
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only two choices..... really?
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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1847
1441 posts
Jan 03, 2014
8:25 AM
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there are lots and lots of choices if you know where to look
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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HawkeyeKane
2234 posts
Jan 03, 2014
8:42 AM
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I'll agree that buying from the mainstream ether of eBay is risky. But I think 1847's also right in saying that there are a number of reputable sellers and gurus who are a much safer avenue to obtain quality elements.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Kingley
3363 posts
Jan 03, 2014
8:43 AM
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1847 - Which all involve buying one from somebody who is selling one. Unless you're in the extremely fortunate position of someone giving you a gift of one. Which, let's face it, is very unlikely for the vast majority of people. Now we could go round and round like this forever if you wish too.
However wouldn't it be far better and more grown up for us to try and help BluesJacketman obtain an element and give him (I'm presuming the OP is a man) some sensible advice on the matter rather than just falling into the realms of internet trolls? I have suggested some avenues for him to try. Of course he could also scour pawnshops, yard sales, etc, but that could take weeks/months/years to find a decent one. So that's a bit of a crap shoot at best. So 1847 do you have any serious suggestions where he may purchase one and to be fairly certain that it's a decent element?
Hawkeye - I never said Greg was the only game in town. I said "Preferably but not necessarily from a reputable seller like Greg." I agree there are a number of reputable sellers out there. So why not give the OP some suggestions?
Last Edited by Kingley on Jan 03, 2014 8:51 AM
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HawkeyeKane
2235 posts
Jan 03, 2014
9:50 AM
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Suggestions? Okay....
I gotta say that Greg probably has the best selection of primo Shure CM's and CR's around. So if that's what you want, there's your guy. I know he has sources for other elements as well.
Dave Wren at harpmicshop.com has a number of unique elements, many of which are crystals and CM's, though no 127's I can see at this time. I've used his services several times and he's nothing but friendly, fast, and thorough.
Dirty Dan apparently has a couple MC-151's in stock. Odd....because he's usually out of everything. LOL
http://www.dirtydansmics.com/parts.htm
Might check with Dennis Gruenling at badassharmonica.com to see if he has anything available. I think he tends to have a pretty consistent turnaround on elements going into mic shells, but you never know...
Chuck Gurney at fatbottom-mics.com builds and rebuilds classic CM's & CR's to much acclaim and reputability. But I believe Chuck's been ill recently and I don't know if he's back to work yet or not. Give him an email and see.
Finally, there's a cat in KC-MO who's been highly recommended to me a number of times. Goes by Mr. Microphone (real name Dennis Oellig). The one thing about him though....he only sells elements if you send the mic to him for installation, and even then, he asks for your trust to get you the best tone with what he finds to be the best suited element for the job. If you're comfortable with that, then I'll say this much: Two of the best sounding bullets I've ever heard came out of his shop and are now in the arsenal of one of the best harp players in my area. Website is mrmicrophone.com.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on Jan 03, 2014 10:26 AM
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Kingley
3365 posts
Jan 03, 2014
10:04 AM
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Thanks Hawkeye (Tim?) . Those are try helpful suggestions and hopefully BluesJacketman will get a good element from one of the people/places we have suggested.
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HarpNinja
3658 posts
Jan 03, 2014
10:23 AM
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I wonder how two JT30's would sound chained together...
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Mike
My Website
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HawkeyeKane
2237 posts
Jan 03, 2014
10:29 AM
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Agreed Kingley (Pat?). Here's hoping...
Mike, are you making a funny, or do you have a hypothesis?
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Hawkeye Kane
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1847
1442 posts
Jan 03, 2014
10:33 AM
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mr blue jacket wants to put a controlled reluctance in a jt30
that is so wrong! what is his next project
putting a 350 chevy engine in a jaguar? ouch!
secondly you live on another continent
you have absolutely no idea what is available locally
just recently my dear friend felix "the king of the blues harmonica"
offered me a controlled magnectic, he is not only a fine harmonica player
but also quite handy with a soldering iron.
the day before yesterday my neighbor just picked up
a new crystal mic from another local builder steve warner
i asked him how it sounded, he said he did not have a chance
to test it yet, but if it is anywhere near as good as the one he borrowed from slimharp
i'll bet it smokes! dirty dans in colorado makes custom mic's and sells elements
you can get elements from erica's jt 30 store
and why yes you can get one from greg also.
i have several 127 elements "sorry not for sale"
not sure why...... i prefer my worn out crystal
it irks me when someone tells me there is only one or two options possible
hold my beer watch this.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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HawkeyeKane
2238 posts
Jan 03, 2014
10:41 AM
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@1847
He said a CM dude, not a CR. In either case, why is that wrong? I've seen tons of JT30's with Shure elements in them, and they sound phenomenal. Your analogy of a Chevy 350 in a Jaguar might be accurate, but not in the context you described it. A Chevy 350 is a durable and wonderfully performing engine, whereas Jaguar engines (in my experience at least) are far less reliable and much more high maintenance. The same could be said about a CM/CR as opposed to a crystal or ceramic. they're gonna be a helluva lot more durable and last a lot longer too.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Kingley
3366 posts
Jan 03, 2014
10:44 AM
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"mr blue jacket wants to put a controlled reluctance in a jt30
that is so wrong!"
I can only presume you're being humorous. If not then try telling that to the myriad of players who play or have played a CM/CR in a JT30 shell.
"secondly you live on another continent
you have absolutely no idea what is available locally"
How do you know that your 'locally" is the same as BluesJacketmans? America is a mighty big place!
Hawkeye - Close Tim. Just change the "t" in Pat for 'ul" and you're there :)
Last Edited by Kingley on Jan 03, 2014 10:47 AM
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HawkeyeKane
2239 posts
Jan 03, 2014
10:46 AM
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Dammit...
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Hawkeye Kane
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Rgsccr
217 posts
Jan 03, 2014
10:53 AM
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i will second the endorsement of Dave at the harpmicshop.com (and, of course, Greg Heumann). I have gotten a number of items from Dave, including an element. Everything has been great and what I expected. Plus, the prices are fair and shipping is quick. He is also a nice guy (as is Greg) who is happy to talk on the phone.
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1847
1444 posts
Jan 03, 2014
10:59 AM
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These day's, the prices have gone through the roof for the CR elements. This is because there are now a bunch of people seeking out every microphone ever made that has a CM or CR element in it on ebay. Some of these people seem to have deep pockets too and are bidding on every mic they can find with a CR in it. This is unfortunate for those who would like to buy a CR element, but you don't have to pay that kind of money to get one if you know where to look for them (see the page on collecting vintage mic's). These few people who are paying upwards of $200 and sometimes as much as $300 for mic's with CR's in them are apparently so greedy that they won't let one or two pass by. They apparently are not mic builders, as they can't possibly make a profit on them buying at these prices. I can't imagine the prices going any higher but I wouldn't be surprised. Nobody in the right mind would hoard these things and pay $200+ for each one. They'll be lucky to break even if and when they decide to sell them. If you would like to get a CR for your mic, you can get one for as little as $5 if you are patient and know where to look. The last black CR I bought I paid $2.75 for. Thats right, $2.75, not $275. I've purchased mic's with high Z CM's in them for fifty cents too. These deals are not that hard to find, and if you're patient, you'll get your element dirt cheap as well. DO NOT look to buy elements on ebay unless you're prepared to pay 100 times more than you can get one for elsewhere. Let the CR hoarders (you all know who you are) pay out of their noses for them on ebay. They will end up eating them for lunch when they find out they can't sell them at a profit.
this was copied off the green bullet.com website
notice where it says
you can get one for as little as 5 dollars if you are patient and nowhere to look?
i have no intention on giving away trade secrets
but if that makes me an internet troll so be it
but i have a box of spare elements
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Rick Davis
2822 posts
Jan 03, 2014
11:47 AM
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Mike, LOL
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Rick Davis
2823 posts
Jan 03, 2014
12:05 PM
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If you are REALLY patient and have the time to comb through ham radio swap meets, garage sales, estate sales, and junk shops you MIGHT find an old JT-30 and it MIGHT work. But my time is more valuable than that. I'm happy to pay people like Greg for their expertise.
A CM or CR is not automatically a killer harp mic element. They all sound different. Some of them are only worth $5 because they suck. The great ones are rare. A fool cannot tell the difference, but Greg can.
Dennis Gruenling has some very nice old JT-30 mics. Chuck Gurney does excellent work. All three (Greg, Dennis, and Chuck) are trusted pros. They get respect, and they get my business.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Rick Davis
2824 posts
Jan 03, 2014
12:27 PM
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BluesJacketman, you might consider the Shure 99B86 element. Here is a video of Nic Clark playing my rig: 1959 Shure 440SL "Silver Bullet" mic w/99B86, and a Mission Delta Sonic amp. To my ear the B86 element has more cut than other CMs.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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1847
1446 posts
Jan 03, 2014
3:26 PM
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bluesjacket.... mine are not for sale
i cant seem to part with anything i must be a pack rat
the 127 sounds very similar to a 151
the 151 has a little more low end and a little higher highs i think a member here has one for sale
harpaholic?
check out the thread astatic stomp
you cannot get that sound from a green bullet element
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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tmf714
2314 posts
Jan 03, 2014
3:33 PM
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harp-a-holic has the 99B86-I don't see a 127 listed on his site-
He does have a 151 though-buy it now of $133.99-thats a damn good price-
151
Last Edited by tmf714 on Jan 03, 2014 3:37 PM
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1847
1447 posts
Jan 03, 2014
3:43 PM
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should be a 151 he has.... not the 127
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Rick Davis
2825 posts
Jan 03, 2014
4:23 PM
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Jan 03, 2014 4:31 PM
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1847
1448 posts
Jan 03, 2014
4:29 PM
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i goin out walking... what a great clip
totally made my day.... think i'll play it over and over
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Larrystick
60 posts
Jan 03, 2014
6:02 PM
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Bluesjacketman,
Here's a nice-sounding CM at a fair price. I've tested it myself, and it has nice bottom, and good overall tone. Drop me a note and I'll send you a video clip of the element in action.
1976 Shure 99B86 PK Controlled magnetic
james@simplemics.com
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Stickman from walkthatwalk.org
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Greg Heumann
2540 posts
Jan 03, 2014
6:13 PM
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Hey 1847 - if you can get CM's and CR's for $5, you must be spending a BOATLOAD of time looking for them at garage sales and in antique shops. I certainly don't have time to do that. So I look for people like you, and then I buy elements from them. I pay a premium which in effect is compensation for your time and expertise. If you want to sell me some elements I am interested to talk. I go through many elements every single month. Looking for them is a constant endeavor. I just scored 25 CM's from a guy. That doesn't happen very often any more but it sure is nice when it does......
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
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2plankr
53 posts
Jan 05, 2014
10:05 AM
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I bought a JT30 for a great price. The seller claimed it was in good working order and it did work but the element was on it's last legs. I bought a CR Black Label from Greg and now it sounds fantastic. Sure it costs more but when you buy from Greg you know it's going to be in great shape.
Last Edited by 2plankr on Jan 05, 2014 10:08 AM
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dougharps
508 posts
Jan 06, 2014
8:25 AM
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@BluesJacketMan
Contact me off list using the email in my account info. I bought 2 MC-127 elements years ago from Angela Instruments, One I have used, the other I never installed in a mic. I can send photos (don't have hosting set up.) If you are interested, make an offer and if necessary we can negotiate about price. I am a fan of the Shure 585AV for my sound and I don't need 2 mics with these ceramic elements, as I seldom use my ceramic or my 520D CM mics.
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Doug S.
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MP
3034 posts
Jan 06, 2014
10:08 AM
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There are a couple reasons to put a 127 or 151 in and Astatic JT-30. One reason is the JT-30s came w/ 151s and in some cases ceramic 127s. If the tag on the JT-30 indicates 127-C it was a ceramic JT. If 151 it was crystal. This would make it vintage and some people (myself included) love the old sound.
This is fine if you don't use the mic a lot because those elements break down. Believe me, they do.
Now-a-days I use CRs in Astatics because they are almost indestructible. My neighbor uses CRs and CMs. He keeps his crystals safe at home.
in short, the question is---do you want a gig mic that lasts or a vintage JT-30? Use a 127 only if it the tag indicates C to make it vintage.
I think Jerry Portnoy likes 127s in his JT-30s. Could be wrong. Heard it years ago.
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Have reeds in stock and now accepting orders for the following Hohner Hand Made Series Harps Bb-C-D-Eb-E-F-G
Click user name MP for contact info
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BluesJacketman
126 posts
Apr 14, 2014
10:08 PM
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Its funny a few of you recommended a 99b86 to me eventually i sold the Jt30 shell and bought a no tag shure green bullet style shell with a 99b86 and I like it so much more than the CRs and 99A86s I've played.
Thank you for your recommendations!
maybe a video is coming soon?
Last Edited by BluesJacketman on Apr 14, 2014 10:09 PM
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slackwater
47 posts
Apr 15, 2014
1:15 AM
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The first JT30 I got had a new 127/151 in it. When it died it broke my heart. I didn't want to go through that again.
I love JT30's, That sexy art deco look...and I like the feel of 'em. Now I've got three, one with a CM, one with a black CR, which is actually a Model A, predating the JT30, and the original one which I kept as is (not working) for sentimental reasons.
Nothing wrong with a Shure element in a JT30!
If you want an Astatic ceramic/crystal element though, there's nothing wrong with that either.
Last Edited by slackwater on Apr 15, 2014 1:18 AM
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6SN7
440 posts
Apr 15, 2014
4:18 AM
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i have a used 127 and 2 151's. they are okay and will give them to you for less than anyone else, likwe for a cd and a switchcraft plug. I use CM/CR's and have no use for them. The 127 is good, the 151's are ok. .contact pfmoore17@gmail.com
Last Edited by 6SN7 on Apr 15, 2014 5:21 AM
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SuperBee
1919 posts
Apr 15, 2014
5:15 AM
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Enjoyed this old thread; I didn't see it first time around. Led me to reflect on my own discoveries and favourite mics and how things change etc.
I don't have much experience with the crystals; seems like a path likely to be disappointing and expensive. I'm not into 'custom' mics per se, although I have several which fit the description. I understand the urge to collect 'choice' vintage gear, but I resist it.
These days I'm less interested in mics than ever, but I still value my favourites and would use my vintage brownie in preference to most any current production stick. I have mics in the drawer I can't even be bothered testing. I guess I'm satisfied. For now. Maybe sometime I'll be happy enough with my playing to start worrying about whether I could sound better with a different mic. But for now, I think the mic is doing it's part of the deal pretty well.
Oh...I dunno...I don't put much stock in the notion of a 99B being generically superior or a black CR being better than a 70s CM etc. my sample size is too small to say I guess...but I think there's too much variation across the board to have expectations about any random 99b, say, is gonna outperform any other similar element like a 99A or G or H...
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Bass410man
18 posts
Apr 15, 2014
6:52 AM
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I have bought elements from eBay, and have had good luck. I think you just need to buy from those that offer a return policy if you are not satisfied with the tone. You can get a good one for between $50 to $75 (99a86 or b86) or you can pay double that from mic builders, just because there ears say it's good, no thanks, I took my chance on eBay, and was very happy.
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1847
1688 posts
Apr 15, 2014
7:40 AM
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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slackwater
48 posts
Apr 15, 2014
6:42 PM
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Thanks 1847, that brightened up my day, and no, that's one crystal I wouldn't put into a JT30!
-- My Missus just yelled out from the kitchen," Are you watching Breaking Bad?"
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Barley Nectar
357 posts
Apr 15, 2014
7:41 PM
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What Sup said...BN
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MP
3160 posts
Apr 16, 2014
1:40 PM
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----------Yeah, I like this old thread too.
Currently I'm using a brush element from an EV 920
in a 40s all brown Astatic Biscuit. Got it from MojoKane.
The old one I had died last year so I'd been using a gorgeous Biscuit w/ a CR (also fron MojoKane) till the Brush Crystal showed up a few weeks ago.
I used to buy 127s simply because I could get them for cheap ($18) from Angela instruments and I would load them in JT-30-Cs to keep them vintage. I used to have a lot of JT-30s. It was my fav mic w/ that art deco design and chrome grille, but I'm spoiled by the size of the Astatic Biscuit. Mostly I'd buy 151s from Angela for $18.
There was a time I would call Astatic and talk to a lady whom would sell me crystals for $8. This was as late as the mid 80s.
Affordable Reed Replacement
Marks Harmonica Tune-up
Click user name MP for contact info
Last Edited by MP on Apr 16, 2014 1:47 PM
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1847
1703 posts
Apr 16, 2014
2:08 PM
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Nothing wrong with a Shure element in a JT30!
If you want an Astatic ceramic/crystal element though, there's nothing wrong with that either.
nothing wrong with putting a chevy engine in a jag either..... as iceman would say koff koff
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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HawkeyeKane
2476 posts
Apr 16, 2014
2:10 PM
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Just outta curiosity, anyone happen to know what element Astatic loaded into the old D-104's? I've seen them on ebay and c-list many times...often going for less than $100. I never was interested in them because they're design isn't conducive for harp playing. But if they have 151's in them, I might keep a closer eye out for one going dirt cheap...
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Hawkeye Kane - Hipbone Sam
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1847
1704 posts
Apr 16, 2014
2:11 PM
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did anyone play the sound clip of the jaguar?
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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MP
3161 posts
Apr 16, 2014
4:40 PM
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D-104s don't have 151s.
I have one and I've seen a lot of them. forgot what's in them. whatever is in there is crappy.
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Affordable Reed Replacement
Marks Harmonica Tune-up
Click user name MP for contact info
Last Edited by MP on Apr 16, 2014 4:45 PM
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1847
1709 posts
Apr 16, 2014
9:07 PM
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no reason to "beat" a dead horse
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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1847
1710 posts
Apr 16, 2014
9:13 PM
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when you can shoot one.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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1847
1711 posts
Apr 17, 2014
7:36 AM
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ASTATIC 104
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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barbequebob
2529 posts
Apr 17, 2014
10:26 AM
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@HawkeyeKane -- Physically, the crystals won't fit into a JT30 shell, but a much bigger problem is the fact that the original crystals from the 104's are FAR TOO HOT to use as a harp mic unless you have some sort of feedback suppressor like a Kinder or Squeal King and even those may not be enough to contain that at all.
I had to chance to check out a 50's MC151 that a friend of mine had in a JT30 shell made in the 70's with a screw on adapter going into a '59 Bassman he owned back then (I'm talking late 70's when this happened) and the element was so freaking hot that I almost couldn't turn the amp on without feedback and I know for a fact that those crystals for the D104 are EASILY twice as hot as that 50's MC151 I had a chance to try and this is NOT an exaggeration.
D104's are still the king of ham radio mikes, but I'd never use them for harp thru any rig you can name.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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