Rick Davis
2693 posts
Nov 17, 2013
7:57 AM
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I'll have this little guy at the jam at Ziggies in Denver tonight. Harp players, come try it out and let me know what you think. Basically it is a Champ clone with a tone control - a 5F2A circuit. 5 watts, with 8-inch Weber speaker, EH 12AY7 preamp tube, Ruby 6V6 power tube, hand wired point-to-point on a turret board, big iron in the transformers, line out, nice lacquered tweed.
Come on down and play it if you are in the area.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Nov 17, 2013 7:58 AM
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Kingley
3281 posts
Nov 17, 2013
8:18 AM
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Very cool little amps for harp those 5F2A amps. I realise this is only the prototype, but it'd look much better with an old style brown Fender leather handle rather than the bulky one on it now in my opinion. Unfortunately Denver is a bit of swim from the UK so I doubt I'll be able to make it to the jam. I will be very interested to hear the video clips of it in action though.
Last Edited by Kingley on Nov 17, 2013 8:19 AM
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Rick Davis
2694 posts
Nov 17, 2013
8:27 AM
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Kingley, I plan to get video at the jam.
I'm a little disappointed the photos don't show off the deep golden color of the tweed.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Nov 17, 2013 9:05 AM
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1847
1308 posts
Nov 17, 2013
10:22 AM
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awesome!
any chance you could run a line out, and mic it up at the jam?
blend the 2 signals together?
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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MN
294 posts
Nov 17, 2013
1:36 PM
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I have a 1x8 Marble Max that's similar to this. You just can't go wrong with amps like this for harp. Line it out to the PA and you've basically got a pre-amp (with a bonus in that it can function as your stage monitor) that gives great amped tone and lets you hang with a loud band.
I've used my Max like that on an outdoor festival stage with a band that had drums, bass, 2 guitars, 3 horns, keys, and two vocalists.
I'm anxious to hear this one.
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Barley Nectar
188 posts
Nov 17, 2013
5:00 PM
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Rick, Which Weber speaker is that?
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Rick Davis
2696 posts
Nov 17, 2013
11:48 PM
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Barley, the speaker is a weber ceramic Sig 8, smooth cone.
I got some good video of the amp in action at the jam tonight. I'll put it up in the morning.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Rick Davis
2697 posts
Nov 17, 2013
11:59 PM
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Here is a photo from the jam tonight, the host band on stage.
L to R - me, Bad Brad Stivers on guitar, Bruce Collins on drums, Mac McMurray on bass.
You can see the little amp on a chair at the left edge of the photo.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Nov 18, 2013 12:01 AM
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HarpNinja
3598 posts
Nov 18, 2013
6:56 AM
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Why not 2x8 or 1x10? If I were to lust over an amp, it would be a Tweed Champ-type set up for harmonica with something more than 1x8.
I bet it sounds great. I really like what I've heard from the Mission amps.
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Mantra Customized Harmonicas
My Website
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HawkeyeKane
2163 posts
Nov 18, 2013
7:58 AM
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Is Brad using a TV faced tweed there?
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Hawkeye Kane
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Rick Davis
2698 posts
Nov 18, 2013
8:09 AM
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Tim- Brad is playing through his Victoria Regal tweed amp. I really like the tone he gets. Another Denver blues guitar pro -- Erik Boa -- uses a Regal too.
Check this out: each power tube has is own bias circuit in cathode bias mode. You can play with one 6V6 or two 6L6 tubes, or 5881s or KT66s, or any combination. It is quite an amp. Amazing tone.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Nov 18, 2013 8:13 AM
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Rick Davis
2699 posts
Nov 18, 2013
8:36 AM
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This is what the Mini amp sounds like:
The amp is lined out with a little sound in the PA and monitors.
Playing impressions: That little sucker is louder than other Champ-type amps I've played. This was the first stage time for the amp, and I could hear the speaker loosening up as the jam went on. It was crunchier at the end of the jam than at the beginning.
Nic Clark was impressed! ...and that kid is very picky about his gear.
I had four very good harp amps at the jam and the Mini was the only one that got played. There were tons of comments from other jammers, from fans, and from the staff at the club (who have heard it all). Everybody loved the sound of the Mini.
The is not a Mission Amp... it is a collaboration between Mission and another company. Bruce Collins designed the tone circuits and he will take care of the warranty work.
The target initial selling price for the amp is ~$400. It will be available in a couple months.
Questions: Would you be interested in buying this amp at that price? Would you be be interested in pre-ordering the amp?
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Nov 20, 2013 1:33 PM
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HarpNinja
3602 posts
Nov 18, 2013
8:50 AM
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Yes!
I might even be willing to buy one for realz.
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Mantra Customized Harmonicas
My Website
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6SN7
393 posts
Nov 18, 2013
8:50 AM
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Wow, that really cuts through the mix! Sounds like 5 watts bordering on 12 watts!
I recall when I saw Eric Clapton during his "Blues Tour" circa early 1990's, Jerry Portnoy used a similarly sized amp on stage at the Hartford Civic Center. I haven't a clue what the specs were on it as I was in the nose bleed seats.
I am with Harp Ninja, I would rather a 10" speaker. Is that not what a Princeton had back in its tweed heyday? I like the idea of a tone and volume knob as it appears this amp has. I have enjoyed using Champs over the years, but I find the tone varies from amp to amp and even the best ones are one trick ponies as they have only a volume knob.
Last Edited by 6SN7 on Nov 18, 2013 8:56 AM
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Kingley
3284 posts
Nov 18, 2013
9:36 AM
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Rick - The amp sounds very good Rick. I take it you have some video with Nic Clark playing though it as well? I'd be interested to hear how Nic sounded through it. I've just taken possession of a VHT and given it some mods, so probably not going to be buying another amp at the moment. If I was though I'd be giving this serious consideration at that price point.
6SN7 - The tweed Princeton had an 8" speaker and was 5 watts. It was the basically the same circuit as the 5F1 Champ, but with the addition of a tone control. The cabinet it was in was oversized.
EDIT: Scrap that question! Doh! I just got to the end of the video and heard Nic playing it. The amp sounds very good to me.
Last Edited by Kingley on Nov 18, 2013 9:40 AM
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Rick Davis
2700 posts
Nov 18, 2013
9:37 AM
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6SN7- The tweed Princeton upon which this amp is based had an 8-inch speaker.
This amp has separate vol and tone controls.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Rick Davis
2701 posts
Nov 18, 2013
9:38 AM
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Kingley, watch the whole video...
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Kingley
3285 posts
Nov 18, 2013
9:42 AM
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Hahaha! I just have done Rick! It sounds very good to me.
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MN
296 posts
Nov 18, 2013
9:53 AM
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If I were to move back to the U.S. I'd be all over one of these!
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Harpaholic
431 posts
Nov 18, 2013
11:08 AM
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The Lil Monster sounds great! I liked your solo Rick, and how you didn't overplay.
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Rick Davis
2702 posts
Nov 18, 2013
11:08 AM
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79 year-old harp player Ginny played through the Mini amp last night. She is one of the regular jammers, much loved by everyone.
btw.... the grill cloth is opaque and you cannot really see the speaker cutout like that. Flash photography does that.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Nov 19, 2013 6:20 AM
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Rick Davis
2703 posts
Nov 18, 2013
11:32 AM
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Harpahholic, thanks! Actually, I edited out all the parts where I overplayed. ;-)
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Rick Davis
2704 posts
Nov 18, 2013
11:37 AM
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I like the thing Nic does right at 1:25. Really show off the overtones.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Nov 20, 2013 2:05 PM
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paul45
147 posts
Nov 18, 2013
1:19 PM
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At that price, HELL YES!
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1847
1310 posts
Nov 18, 2013
1:51 PM
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welcome to the dark side!
playing thru a tweed champ is one of the most satisfying experiences.
here are my thoughts here.
adding a tone control is a little overkill
there is only so much bass a little 8 inch speaker will put out
most of us usually roll off the treble, so it seems it can be voiced without it.
that circuit will drain off a little of the power, may be able to get 6 or 7 watts
without too much trouble. cheaper faster better.
a line out works ,however nothing compares to a little amp mic'd up
yes it is more work and not always feasible, but with all the time spent chasing tone
that would be the simplest way to achieve it.
$400.00 dollars seems like a fantastic price, most of the clones i have seen are close to a thousand dollars.
i hate to nit pick seeing as how this is a proto type
but getting the tweed not just the right color......... "a little darker would be nice"
but going in the correct direction would not hurt either
just my thoughts.....
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Harpaholic
432 posts
Nov 18, 2013
2:20 PM
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I don't think its overkill to have a tone control, because there's usually a sweet spot on the tone setting between 1-4 that gives the amp just the right amount of treble and cut.
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rbeetsme
1424 posts
Nov 18, 2013
2:24 PM
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I have 2 Champ clones, one with a 10" and one with an 8". This sounded very much like mine. Does this have a Line out? Was it lined to the PA at the jam? Oh yeah, no, i wouldn't buy it, already have 2 I like. Tone control is a good idea, these little Champs are pretty trebly, nice to cut the treble and fatten the bass, I use pedals. But...400.00 is too cheap! If anyone wants a handbuilt small harp amp, you can't do any better than this for the price.
Last Edited by rbeetsme on Nov 18, 2013 2:26 PM
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Rick Davis
2709 posts
Nov 19, 2013
6:16 AM
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Another question:::
This amp begins its life in a factory in China, same as the VHT Special 6 amp. It is imported to America partially complete and finished here. Speaker and electronics are installed, and the cab is lacquered.
Does that change your opinion of the amp?
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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HarpNinja
3603 posts
Nov 19, 2013
6:20 AM
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Nope. I am still going to keep an eye on this one.
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Mantra Customized Harmonicas
My Website
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HawkeyeKane
2165 posts
Nov 19, 2013
7:44 AM
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I'm with Mike. I'll be watching this one with eager anticipation. But a question for you Rick. You said AY7 and 6V6 in your first post. What's the third tube then? I see two mini tubes in there.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on Nov 19, 2013 7:48 AM
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paul45
148 posts
Nov 19, 2013
7:44 AM
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I kinda figured China would be involved for that price. If the quality
is good I would still go for it. Can you tell us what name will be on the
badge? Who will be selling them?
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Rick Davis
2710 posts
Nov 19, 2013
8:10 AM
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Tim, the rectifier is a 6X4, same as in the Premier Twin 8.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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HawkeyeKane
2166 posts
Nov 19, 2013
8:40 AM
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And the Zoo 1 and 2. Nice choice. :-)
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Hawkeye Kane
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Kingley
3287 posts
Nov 19, 2013
9:26 AM
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I already own a VHT, so being made in China wouldn't bother me in the slightest.
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walterharp
1217 posts
Nov 19, 2013
10:41 AM
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sounds good, I don't think you can even get all those parts in a kit for that little money
let us know when and where they are available.
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Rick Davis
2713 posts
Nov 19, 2013
12:07 PM
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The price has not been set yet. It should be around $400, maybe slightly more.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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ridge
470 posts
Nov 19, 2013
12:10 PM
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I'm only having a little fun. I thought it sounded great. I have a re-issue champ and enjoy it quite a bit, so this little number looks right up my alley!
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blueswannabe
350 posts
Nov 19, 2013
6:01 PM
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how about black tolex with a silver speaker cloth or a heavily lacquered (amber tint) tweed cabinet like the sonny jr. to make it look more aged or vintage.
I do not think 400 is too cheap.
Last Edited by blueswannabe on Nov 19, 2013 6:03 PM
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LSC
537 posts
Nov 19, 2013
6:33 PM
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Personally having it made in China does make a difference to me and I would submit should make a difference to others.
Putting aside the quality of any parts sourced in China, tubes come to mind for a start, I would be much happier paying $100 or even $150 more knowing that I was getting Made in the USA build quality and at least equally as important, supporting American jobs. Even if you're only hiring a couple of guys that's two lives changed, plus family if they have any. And there is the knock on effect in that you now have their wages spent primarily in the community. That's some more guys and girls and their friends coming to your gig. It's in our own self interest.
Consider, the HG2 lists for $849. I think it's a very good amp with very good build quality but I personally think the price is high for what you're getting really. If Mission could offer something anything close to that quality with it's own unique features but a couple of hundred cheaper wouldn't that be great value?
LSC
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LSC
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Rick Davis
2715 posts
Nov 19, 2013
6:39 PM
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LSC, this is not a Mission amp. As I said, Bruce Collins designed the tone circuits and will be hired to do the warranty work. That's it.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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blueswannabe
351 posts
Nov 19, 2013
6:43 PM
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The VHT is priced around $200. Just curious, why is $400 justified? Any thoughts.
They are both made in china. The vht is solidly built..like a tank. Is it being sold as a harp amp or guitar amp or both? Why is it that when you label something as harp amp the price seems to double. I notice this on ebay with mics. Non harp players label the mic or element as harp and all of a sudden it's 2x or 3x the normal price.
Last Edited by blueswannabe on Nov 19, 2013 6:47 PM
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Rick Davis
2716 posts
Nov 19, 2013
7:13 PM
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Blueswannabe-
The VHT Special 6 is a very fine little guitar amp. It sells for $239, packed and shipped from China. I owned and modded one and really liked it. I am very familiar with it.
To make it sound really good for harp most players spend some money for tubes, a speaker, and even circuit mod kits. The total cost can get up to $400 pretty fast. And you have voided the warranty by doing these mods.
The Mini amp is already a harp amp, each one carefully completed here in America by techs who know blues harp tone. Every amp will be played by a harp player before being shipped on to the new owner. And it has the added charm of being a tweed amp with an 8-inch Weber speaker. It nails that nice "Champ" sound. (check the video)
The two amps sound very different. They don't really compete with each other.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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blueswannabe
352 posts
Nov 19, 2013
7:35 PM
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I'm with you but i think people will compare these two amps head to head to see which is the better bang for the buck and if the tone of one clearly surpasses the other. You may want to do an amp shoot out with the VHT v. memphis mini. This might convince people that it is worth the extra $200 bucks. Just saying. I'm glad to hear it's assembled here, that has its own appeal.
In any event I'm glad to see some harp tone experts are making another offering and are really thinking about the market.
Last Edited by blueswannabe on Nov 19, 2013 7:37 PM
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Rick Davis
2717 posts
Nov 19, 2013
7:37 PM
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There will be a website up before long with all the details. If you have questions about the amp you can email me at bluesharpamps@gmail.com.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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walterharp
1221 posts
Nov 19, 2013
7:41 PM
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so what does completed mean? I doubt most if any of the parts of the HG are actually made in the US, but I could be wrong. If it is a weber speaker, that part is made in the US, but weber had problems at one point with caps.. they put cheap little ones in the bigger tubes, so even thought they advertise made in america, some of their parts probably come from overseas.. I know they use cheap chinese tubes in their kits... lots of cars that are made in the US mainly have parts made elsewhere and shipped here....
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BigSteveNJ
22 posts
Nov 19, 2013
7:59 PM
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On one hand: American builders and American parts and American sales = better American economy. Good.
On the other hand: Some Americans are trying to sell a Champ-ish amplifier for nearly what an authentic vintage 5F1 is selling for. Not good.
At least with this new amp, the US workers won't be cut completely out of the process, and Rick has pointed out that the workers who DO handle these amps will be HARP players and people who understand amplified harp tone. Can't say that about the poor slobs in China who make cheaper amps that everyone mods for harp.
I guess the question is one of whether we want to help prove the market viability of a truly affordable harp amp that can be sold at big-box-retailer prices. On the other hand, we could continue to demand such artisan-craft-purity (or authentic vintage "mojo") that our dearly beloved tones stay completely out of the reach of the average person. $900 Champ-ish amplifiers and $2000+ Bassman clones are just stupid, IMHO, as are $1100 silverface Princeton Reverbs or $2000 tweeds.
The reason the VHT Special 6 is so popular with many harp players is because RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX, it's a good-sounding harp amp.
If there's any part of any of us that wants people to be able to afford, and thus be able to learn on and play, quality harp equipment, then something like what Rick is describing might be a very good compromise, at least for now.
Maybe someone else in the US will finally wake people the heck up and get them to stop paying $1000 for a Victoria 518.
Rick, I don't know if I will have the expendable cash after the new year when I get my Mission amp, but I'll be watching these developments.
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Kingley
3289 posts
Nov 19, 2013
10:25 PM
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BigSteveNJ - Great post. Very well thought out and well written.
I'd also add to the "Made In USA" ( or any other western world economy for that matter) argument. This isn't a new phenomenon at all. The reality is that for many decades a significant amount of components and completed products of many different varieties have been manufactured in Asia. This has been the case since at least the 1970's. If you want to have an amp truly made in the USA where all the components are "Made in the USA" then you'd most likely have to pay in the region of $2000-$3000 just for a 5 watt amp. Most of those resistors, capacitors, pots, switches, etc that are used in the manufacture of "boutique" amps originally come from Asia, as do many of the other parts used. Just try finding some truly new "Made in USA" electronic parts to make an amp, then add in solder, glue, tweed, wood, steel, plastic, etc. Insist that it's all brand new, not NOS and "Made in USA" then price it all up, add in assembly time, problem solving, marketing, shipping, losses, etc and you'll soon see why people like Fender make amps in China. The reality is that "Assembled in the USA" is about the best you can ask for these days with regards to most products.
Personally I hope that this amp does really well. I think that an affordable reasonably priced 5 watt tweed amp is just what the market needs. I can seed this also making waves in the guitar world. My only very minor gripe is that I'd like to see it come fitted with a 5Y3 rectifier to make it a little more period correct.
Last Edited by Kingley on Nov 19, 2013 10:27 PM
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LSC
538 posts
Nov 19, 2013
10:44 PM
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Rick - "As I said, Bruce Collins designed the tone circuits and will be hired to do the warranty work. That's it."
I stand corrected but I just read through all the posts twice and I can't find where you made this statement. I guess it's in there somewhere.
BigSteveNJ & Walter - I still stand by my preference for American built products as a general rule. And yes, many American branded products contain foreign parts. It is a global economy after all. You can't buy an American made TV or cell phone but hey, Toyota builds Tundras in Texas.
It is a broad generality I know but certain countries have a reputation for quality in certain areas. German autos and electronics for example. The Japanese have even produced some fine guitars. I can't think of a single product that the Chinese excel at in terms of quality compared to other countries of manufacture. That may change at some point but not at this moment.
But ultimately it's a matter of personal choice and taste. I'd rather spend $600-$700 for a vintage Gibson or even $300 for a Zoo than $400 for a Champ clone sourced in China. But I'm an awkward bugger.
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LSC
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LSC
Last Edited by LSC on Nov 19, 2013 10:55 PM
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6SN7
395 posts
Nov 20, 2013
4:33 AM
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@ Rick: The cabinet looks a lot "beefier" than the VHT.
Am I correct?
I am always suspect of Chinese made parts, in particular, the transformer.
But at least it is not a food product!
Looks and sounds like a winner!
Last Edited by 6SN7 on Nov 20, 2013 4:33 AM
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Rick Davis
2718 posts
Nov 20, 2013
6:51 AM
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6SN7- The amp feels very solid. Players who picked it up were surprised by the heft. It weights 17.8 pounds (8.1 Kg). The weight comes from the big transformers and the thick plywood construction. No particle board. This is not like picking up a cheap amp. Nothing rattles; it does not feel or look "cheap."
I've been inside a lot of amps. This one is clean, with decent quality components and good solders.
I'll put up a photo of the transformers. They are bigger than you'd expect on a Champ, more like you'd find on a Princeton Reverb or 5E3.
I have decided it will be my company that imports and markets these amps. I will have a financial stake in the amp and will not be a non-biased observer. Please keep that in mind.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Nov 20, 2013 8:26 AM
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