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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Varied Tone Throughout a Set
Varied Tone Throughout a Set
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12gagedan
283 posts
Oct 24, 2013
8:47 AM
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Dear MBH-ers,
I've been thinking about the topic of tonal variety during a show for years. I've been somewhat inactive in the harmonica world lately due to work/life stress, but I'm trying to claw back some balance. I decided today to start a discussion.
The topic can be stated as a question; What's your take on tonal variation during a set, and why?
Examples to get the juices flowing, from my long study of the art:
The song that really planted this idea for me was "By Yourself Dance" off of James Harman's "Strictly Live in '85" album. In it, James switches lick-by-lick between sweet acoustic, and his signature amplified tone. I LOVE LOVE LOVE that contrast, and have since made it a point to play a certain amount of acoustic harp on stage for contrast.
I've also played with a lot of guitar players. It's no big deal for them to bring several guitars and switch for different tones. Some harp players go for "their sound" and hardly every vary. I've seen Rod Piazza play countless times, yet maybe he's gone acoustic 4-5 solos that I've seen. Contrast that with Dennis Greunling who makes an art out of switching microphones between songs.
Effects definitely add to this tonal variation, but still most guys go for a "core" sound that's complimented by the effects. Other than amped vs. acoustic or "effected" vs. "core" (for lack of better terms) I've not seen/heard a lot of active effort by blues harp players towards playing distinctly different tones during a show.
Is it a money thing? A hauling gear thing? A general hassle thing? A, "The old guys didn't bother so I won't either" thing? I've asked myself for years why the guitar guys are more apt to bother. (I suppose it's pretty easy to switch guitars).
For me, I think it's convenience. Dennis G's advantage is that he's not singing/leading the band. He focuses on the harp, so making those switches does not interfere. I always feel like I'm keeping the show together, and fiddling with gear too much looks sloppy. I also don't play enough to master the switch (If you haven't seen DG live, his prowess is amazing both musically and gear-ally).
I'm getting closer, though. One day soon, I'll figure out how to bring two completely different rigs and alternate them. One day. . .
I'll stop there and see what others say. For what it's worth I hope to make a bunch of videos before year-end. I haven't quit, just had to put it down for a while.
Thanks,
Dan G.
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Kingley
3221 posts
Oct 24, 2013
9:27 AM
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Great, great topic Dan!
James Harmans By Yourself Dance is a stellar track and one I often play at gigs and jams. I agree with you wholeheartedly that the acoustic vs amplified harp sound is a superb contrast of tones. I also utilise playing in a glass, playing uncupped amplified and acoustic, playing acoustically both on and off the mic and of course positional playing as well. In my opinion the more tonal variety that can be gotten into a set the better. I get bored very, very quickly with the big fat muffled tone that so many harp players choose to use. It's ok for one or two songs, but after that it gets very tiresome indeed. I like the idea of different mics and amps as well but then it starts to become a lot of gear to cart around. So instead I'll play mostly with cupping techniques, mic placement in relation to the harp and amplified vs acoustic to get tonal variations going on. Oh yeah I almost forgot, I also do the mic on the throat thing to get another tonal variation.
Last Edited by Kingley on Oct 24, 2013 9:27 AM
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Frank
3071 posts
Oct 24, 2013
9:46 AM
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My top three would be for a blues player, in no particular order...
Changing harps to capitalize on a different position.
Featuring a different Harp for certain tunes... ex: 12 or 14 hole, Solo tuned, Chromatic, Low/high pitched harps.
Varying cupping technique and Soft/Loud dynamics, for both acoustic and amped.
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JInx
599 posts
Oct 24, 2013
9:51 AM
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"I get bored very, very quickly with the big fat muffled tone that so many harp players choose to use." -Kingley
Me too!
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Frank
3072 posts
Oct 24, 2013
10:15 AM
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"Phrasing ideas" can be a significant contributor to how a player presents his tone...To have certain ideas stand out with in a song... - like others have noted, it is smart not to be locked into one muffled fat tone :)
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kudzurunner
4323 posts
Oct 24, 2013
10:25 AM
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Great thread! In answer to your original question, Dan, the fact is that harp players DO change harps in the course of a set, and more frequently than guitar players: they change keys. A harp, C harp, F harp: right there you've got a lot of tonal variation. That may be one reason why most players, with the exceptions of those you've listed, don't worry quite so much about "changing their sound."
In other words, it is indeed, as you note, pretty easy to switch guitars--and it's ridiculously easy to switch harps.
In defense of guys like me, who pretty much stick with a harp/amp sound (I occasionally turn off the delay or change the rates, but that's about it), I should point out that most horn players don't change sounds either. Your average R&B or jazz sax player has "his" sound, and sticks with it. But Frank is exactly right: the "phrasing ideas" and also the groove provide a lot of the perceived textural difference, song to song.
If there's one basic move that every amped harp player ought to have, it's opening the hands in a significant way, to noticeably thin the sound when emphasis/variation is wanted. I often forget to do this, but it's right there to be done. I used to notice harp players in NYC doing this and it was always effective. I should practice it more.
Second basic move: switch from diatonic to chromatic harp. Right there, you've got a whole other thing.
Third basic move (which really should be the second basic move): blow acoustically on the vocal mic.
Fourth basic move: play different positions. This doesn't create quite as much tonal variation, obviously, as the other three moves. But it creates a lot of perceived variety within the set
Fifth basic move: DON'T PLAY HARP on a given song. Pick up a damn tambourine or something. Amazing how many harp guys forget that NOT PLAYING is always an option.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Oct 24, 2013 10:29 AM
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HarpNinja
3544 posts
Oct 24, 2013
10:33 AM
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"Fifth basic move: DON'T PLAY HARP on a given song. Pick up a damn tambourine or something. Amazing how many harp guys forget that NOT PLAYING is always an option."
I was going to say this too.
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harpdude61
1869 posts
Oct 24, 2013
10:53 AM
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Right on HarpNinja! I always have one song per set with no harp at all when my band plays. I use this to walk thru the crowd and thank the partons and ask other musicians about our sound...plus give a listen myself. My bladder is also 20 years older than my bandmates. We know what that means....lol
Most bands have songs they want to do that are not the most harp friendly anyway.
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barbequebob
2359 posts
Oct 24, 2013
10:55 AM
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Part of varied tone comes from breath control, messing with the embouchure, and as kudzurunner points out, your hands, and also combining ALL of these different things as well. Opening just one or two fingers also can change it as well. With good breath control, a single lick can sound like many different ones if you really learn to get that under control, which unfortunately, most players never have at all
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Sincerely,
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Boston, MA
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Littoral
1003 posts
Oct 24, 2013
11:35 AM
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Yes, changing positions and harps accomplishes a lot. Really using my low harps works. Thinking differently is my favorite way - looking for horn lines/accents or simple percussion sounds, but sparingly.
Laying out is essential.
ALSO:
I've finally assembled a PA rig I really like and I can set it up (when I'm also using my brown concert like dan) for a different sound that's a lot of fun. Switching to it for a song or a solo really shakes things up.
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isaacullah
2554 posts
Oct 24, 2013
12:02 PM
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Careful setup of a multiFX pedal can provide easy access to a huge amount of tonal variety (in addition to all listed above). Richard Hunter is a prime example of this in action, but I too do this. Those of us who do looping have HAD to resort to this in order to make looped songs that don't have all the action in the same tonal range.
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jpmcbride
15 posts
Oct 24, 2013
12:36 PM
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Great topic!
Technique variations can make a big difference in how the audience perceives your tone. For example:
Big TB sound (slaps, pulls, partial chords, octaves, etc...) or clean single notes.
Vibrato no vibrato ...
Fast or slow playing ...
Low end of the harp or high end ...
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Jim McBride
www.bottleoblues.com
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Frank
3073 posts
Oct 24, 2013
12:53 PM
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Playing sparingly or taking on an accompaniment role on some tunes can give a player a chance to showcase a different tonal touch.
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nacoran
7252 posts
Oct 24, 2013
2:40 PM
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I've been looking into a couple options to adjust my sound, particularly, I want three distinct channels- acoustic, overdriven and vocal (and maybe, depending on the song, different effects on the vocal.)
I noticed John Popper has a weird rig of duct taped together on his mic. There are mics with volume control. There is even a replacement game microphone, for Rock Band, that has different inputs. I've wondered about hacking one of those to see if it could be used to control a computer to change effects. Obviously, it's not a high end mic, but maybe the electronic part could be hacked onto a better element. I've even got an idea for how to set it up so the buttons don't get in the way- a cover that sort of curls around like a conch shell. Once I'm sure I've given my magnetic harmonica combs all the attention they need that may be my next mad scientist moment.
The buttons would go with you and you wouldn't have to mess with knobs or pedals!
Right now, I've got a gain pedal to switch between vocal and harmonica volume levels. I've got an AB pedal too and a vocal multi-FX pedal, but I've never had the whole rig together. It's an older pedal, but the vocal FX pedal works well, if you tune it just right, for harp. Not great, but alright. You can save the presets and change things with just a couple taps of the toes.
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Nate
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Martin
494 posts
Oct 24, 2013
2:59 PM
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As Littoral says, one mic straight to PA (with appropriate settings) -- isn´t that a first and easiest way to get varied tone?
Then you hopefully have -- but I´m no bigger fan of acoustic harmonica -- two *good* sounds coming from your end of things.
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garry
458 posts
Oct 25, 2013
7:24 PM
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modeling amps offer lots of variability in amp models, effects, etc. realistically i only use 2 or 3 stored settings for the most part.
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nacoran
7257 posts
Oct 25, 2013
9:01 PM
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Also, to add to what BBQ said, different articulations. You can get some neat percussive sounds out of this tin sandwich. Lip pops on low harps can make a great rhythm for someone else to play lead over. Different tunings, different keys. No one will think two songs sound the same if you play something in major, and then switch over to a harmonic minor and start sounding all Klezmerish, or if you go from a low f to a high f.
A local duo/trio (they sometimes have the drummer, sometimes don't) varies up their vocals on their choruses sometimes by teaching the audience the chorus on kazoo. It sounds pretty cool as an occasional thing, and depending on the crowd, a little audience participation can really get the crowd engaged. I've had good luck when I'm playing alone changing things up by putting down the harp on one of my songs (usually I play it as a call and response, where I sing a line and then play the same riff, next line, riff etc.( but sometimes I get the audience to sing the line back to me. Not only does it get them involved and happy, but it gets some of my lyrics stuck in their head. (Open mics also tend to have a lot of pretty good singers in the audience, so it sounds pretty good. I'm not sure how it scales up beyond a large coffee house sized crowd. I know the more people singing the more lag you may get. I break it up with some banter- the song is about driving a fast car, and I have the line 'and the cops can go to hell' but I stop the song there and ask if there are any cops in the audience and make it into a big joke line. I know that's not tone, exactly, but there are lots of ways to break the show up and make the songs sound different. I know Jason has part where he breaks into a classical riff (shoot, I should know which one, I even asked and found out on one of his videos comment section once). Again, it's not tone, but it changes the way the audience is listening to the sound. (And it sounds totally badass.)
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Nate
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Rgsccr
207 posts
Oct 25, 2013
10:56 PM
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My friend Jeff Mason will sometimes go from his mic and amp to the vocal mic during a song. I'm not sure what keys him into the changes but it usually sounds interesting and appropriate. He is also a great trombone player and will do somewhat the same thing with that playing accoustically,then through the vocal mic, and, occasionally, into his harp mic and amp. The latter gives a very mean sound - he played that way on Crossroads a couple weeks ago and made it sound like the biggest harmonica you have ever heard! The other thing he does from time to time is to switch from harp to trombone or vice versa during a song.
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nacoran
7259 posts
Oct 26, 2013
4:46 AM
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I have a friend who reads poetry at open mics. In a small room he can, by adjusting how loud he talks, go from talking softly into a mic to speaking (almost shouting) to the whole room. He uses it one of his pieces to great effect. I've seen a band that has 4 guys who can play trumpet and they sneak into the audience and start playing from the audience. Trumpets are louder, so unless you have a wireless mic the room would have to be fairly small (coffee house sort of setting) but going off mic and wandering around forces you to change your tone and gets that crowd interaction thing going on too. There is the old 'play in a can or cup trick). We've got one number where I crank up the distortion on my amp, but the real difference is that the bass player is hammering certain notes at the same time. Suddenly we sound like a whole trombone section.
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Nate
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STME58
567 posts
Oct 26, 2013
7:37 AM
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One of the things I find attractive about the harp is how easy it is to get different tones and expressions out of it without any extra equipment. You can change the timber with your hands, embouchure, or throat and do it in a vary dynamic way. You can even sing though it to get an extra note in the chord a la Wade Schumann. Just a harp in your pocket and you are set for all kinds of musical expression.
With my trombone, not only do I have to lug the big instrument, but also the mute bag full of things to change the timber with (straight mute,cup mute, vacchiano mute etc.). If I want a wa wa sound I have to juggle a plunger over the bell, making it quite difficult to manipulate the slide. Singing through a trombone to add an extra note, while possible, is a great deal more difficult to do with a relatively pleasing sound than it is on a harp.
I have yet to really get into electronics with the harp. When I do, I think it will make my trombone and mute bag seem quite light and portable compared to amps and pedal boards. For now I am enjoying the portability and expressiveness of the acoustic harp.
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12gagedan
284 posts
Oct 26, 2013
10:51 PM
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Great responses. After reading through, I think I might have meant "amplified tonalities ", although the many points on tone variation are right on. I employ most all of those mentioned, but what I am thinking about is gear. I have a set of pedals like what Jadon was playing a couple years back. I also have a CR mic that I love playing with just AFB and delay right now. Base-tonally, the two rigs are miles apart. I'm thinking (and have been thinking for two years) "why don't I bring both and switch?" And then I get lazy at the gig and never swap rigs. But I could, and maybe I should do the switch.
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