jbear
34 posts
Oct 01, 2013
8:41 AM
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I have a gig in under 2 months. It'll be only my second time playing harp in front of an audience. I've practiced with this band a few times and it's going OK but we're short of a singer and somehow I've been "volunteered" for that role even though I've never sang outside of the shower.
I don't want to play harp constantly so singing would mean I'm not standing doing nothing....the problem is, I don't know whether I can actually sing or not!
I'd really like to do it, so I've recorded myself singing at home and about 50% of the tunes I've tried sound pretty much in-tune but to be honest my voice sounds crap to me. Doesn't sound bluesy, just a bit amateur.
I'm sort of thinking, who cares, it's a load of people who are in the bar to get drunk - does it matter if it's a substandard singer?
I don't know, I feel like I should either do the singing and just do my best and to hell with anyone who doesn't like it, or alternatively, just give up the whole thing.
Advice?
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jbear
35 posts
Oct 01, 2013
8:51 AM
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Also, does singing just come with the harp territory?
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Barley Nectar
91 posts
Oct 01, 2013
9:04 AM
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Well, I'v been playing 40 yrs and don't sing. I should have started singing when I was in HS. But, unlike some harp players, I don't just stand there waiting for my part. I play about 75% of the song. Must be OK as I get no complaints. Sounds like you are a beginner in both harp and singing. Do it man, sing your ass off. Learn both as I should have...BN
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arzajac
1157 posts
Oct 01, 2013
9:05 AM
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One of the most fulfilling experiences of my life was taking singing lessons. I was coaxed to do it by a piano and voice teacher who preferred teaching voice.
The best source for answers to all the questions you just posed would be found within your fist lesson. I highly encourage you to find a voice teacher.
And even if you never pursue it, a few vocal lessons will make you a better harp player.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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2chops
168 posts
Oct 01, 2013
9:17 AM
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JBear...forget trying to sound bluesy. Forget about worrying if you sound good. Just sing. Find your vocal range and do the songs in the key that you can sing in most comfortably. We always sound not so hot to our own ears. Take voice lessons if you can. But just do it brother.
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You Tube = goshinjk
I'm workin on it. I'm workin on it.
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LSC
506 posts
Oct 01, 2013
9:23 AM
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#1 Be you.
#2 Try and pick songs that mean something to you in someway, either from the story of the song or maybe just how fun it is to sing.
#3 Tell the story.
#4 Keep within yourself and your abilities to start. Don't oversing trying to be something you're not.
#5 Have fun
#6 Have fun
#7 Have fun
#8 Have fun
#9 Have fun
#10 Have some more fun.
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LSC
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jawbone
534 posts
Oct 01, 2013
9:23 AM
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I would second what arzjac said - I think the biggest part of singing is confidence - just belt it out!!!! But having said that - breath control and proper technique are a great aid to that. A decent voice coach can get you on the right track pretty quick. My personal feeling is that harp players should at least attempt to sing - it opens up many more doors.
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If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!
Last Edited by jawbone on Oct 01, 2013 9:24 AM
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Greg Heumann
2390 posts
Oct 01, 2013
9:31 AM
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Yep. There is no definition of a "good" or "bad" voice. And we certainly have our share of "unusual" voices who have succeeded in blues - There's Charlie Musselwhite, whose singing is half talking - and Rick Estrin, who sure as hell ain't no opera singer - to name a few. What WILL hurt you is timidity and letting your fear show through. Sing it like you sing it in the shower. With sincerity. With confidence. Even with a little bit of swagger. As long as you have decent pitch, the rest is attitude.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
Last Edited by Greg Heumann on Oct 01, 2013 9:31 AM
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mr_so&so
740 posts
Oct 01, 2013
9:50 AM
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A lot of good advice here. I think it's important to get off to a good start by taking some lessons and learning to breathe correctly, support your voice, etc. You can really mess up your voice by "shouting" and breathing incorrectly.
But do it. Most people can sing.
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Last Edited by mr_so&so on Oct 02, 2013 9:16 AM
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jbear
36 posts
Oct 01, 2013
1:01 PM
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Wow guys, that is a great help. I had the idea of singing lessons in the back of my mind, but so many of you suggested it that I've just phoned up the local music school and got a lesson next Tuesday.
Thank you all for the kind words and encouragement! Will keep you up to date. I think it'll be interesting.
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Jehosaphat
563 posts
Oct 01, 2013
2:08 PM
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I was told once by a semi pro "if you want to play Harp,you'd better learn to sing"
If you only play the harmonica, in the average band you might only get to play on half the songs and you won't probably get to call them either.
Plus in alot of cases when guys are putting a band together and trying to get gigs a specialist harpist can seeem like a bit of a luxury.
Another mouth to feed as it were.
Of course there are exceptions but the above would seem to be the general rule.
Yep learn to sing you won't regret it.There are some mediocre harp players in my town who play out alot
because they can sing .
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BronzeWailer
1154 posts
Oct 01, 2013
2:19 PM
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I bit the bullet at the start of the year and am glad I did, but also regret not starting sooner. I think you are definitely doing the right thing.
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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Frank
2864 posts
Oct 01, 2013
3:06 PM
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Helix Lead Vocalist Brian Vollmer....Who the hell is Helix - what the hell is Bel Canto - And how the hell did Brian end up on MBH?
True Bel Canto
Last Edited by Frank on Oct 01, 2013 3:16 PM
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Chris L
12 posts
Oct 01, 2013
9:52 PM
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When the front man for your (amateur) band takes off, what are you gonna do? In our case the drummer, guitarist and bass player (me) just had to step up and double up with vocals. All of us were in our fifties with no vocal training or experience except maybe singing along in church. Spent a year and a half in the basement reworking material before performing for anyone. We were shocked to find our recordings less terrible than we thought, and we are having a heck of a lot of fun. So I say go for it!
And there is always this, which a helpful acquaintance got us using this year:
http://www.tc-helicon.com/products/mic-mechanic/.
Reverb and slight pitch correction REALLY helps with the dicey bits. Wouldn't bother to play harp through the pitch corrector though, especially quarter step bends...it corrects everything to the nearest semitone....robo-harp!
Give it a try and have fun!
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Aussiesucker
1324 posts
Oct 01, 2013
10:46 PM
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Go for it. Most folks make the mistake of singing something in the wrong key & then convincing themselves they cannot sing. If you can play harp in tune & in time then there is nothing that should stop you from singing no matter how your voice sounds. The singer however always nominates the key and sometimes as a singer/harp player the best vocal key might not seem the best fit harp key for the song. And don't make the mistake of thinking that once you have discovered that you can sing a tune in eg C that all will be well as different tunes will be different ie you may not be able to sing everything in C or G or A.
Remember it is just another instrument that you are dealing with. The 'lead' instrument in the case of vocals and it needs just as much practice time and care. It is worth it. Get some lessons /vocal coaching as trying to fit your voice to tunes in eg the wrong range/key can damage your vocal chords.
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HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
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jbone
1373 posts
Oct 02, 2013
4:35 AM
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What Jawbone and Mr. so&so said definitely. Early on in my music adventures I was in the same boat. I did NOT take any lessons for a couple of years and began damaging my voice way back then. Once I DID take a few lessons and learned where to breathe from, and did some exercises to strengthen my muscles, I did a lot better. A teacher will help you find your good keys to sing in and what register to use.
In the past year I was singing with an outfit that had a crappy p.a. and sometimes singing through my harp rig as well. Both of these options will make you sound like crap- IF you are heard at all. I did some damage to my vocal cords I think. Let me stress this: NO gig or band is worth wrecking your voice! Hopefully you will be with some guys who know how to set sound up for stage and out the mains.
I would expect you will be singing in a more or less blues style, maybe blues rock? While it's important to relax and have good timing and be pretty much on key and on time, I'd just let it out. After a lesson or two, CONFIDENCE is one of your best tools here.
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http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
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GEEZER1
195 posts
Oct 02, 2013
7:05 AM
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I sing with our group, I am probably the oldest harp player that posts in this forum 81. I found that playing the harp made my voice stronger, I guess it was building up my lung power. I have found that playing the harp is like singing , at the end of the session I can tell I gave my vocal chords a workout. Its fun to sing for me, I really enjoy it. and no complaints yet.
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barbequebob
2346 posts
Oct 02, 2013
8:07 AM
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I can tell you from experience getting vocal lessons, which from a reputable coach, also includes lessons on proper breathing and relaxation techniques, was something I did and have NEVER regretted and not only did it help make my vocals get better, but helped in getting breathing in considerably better control for BOTH harp and vocals as well.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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jbone
1376 posts
Oct 02, 2013
11:39 AM
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Wow Geezer- that is so great! I hope to be in the shape you're in when I get there- still a few years to go! I'll hit 59 on my next birthday if everything goes to plan.
jbear, I have not seen any mention of a good vocal mic here and I think it's topical and important. Crappy vocal mics will make you sound much less than you are. Wife and I went to Shure Beta58's and they are one excellent mic for the $$. We also found them- NEW- on fleabay for about 1/2 of usual retail.
A word of caution too- I don't know how many others here have a voice that needs pretty much the opposite of what a harp needs sound-wise, but unless there is no choice I prefer to have a separate harp mic and vocal mic even if I'm playing into the p.a.
I got a Shure 585 ball mic early this year for a good price and had hoped to use it for vocals but even as a cleaner high impedance mic it just doesn't compare with a better low z vocal mic.
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http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
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MP
2945 posts
Oct 02, 2013
12:51 PM
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From Jehosaphat,
'I was told once by a semi pro "if you want to play Harp,you'd better learn to sing"
Totally! It is a must do.
in 1979 i was in a group and was told i would be let go unless i sang some songs. i was on crutches from 78 to 80 do to a bone disease. i would catch a bus 20 miles to practice singing tunes w/ the guitarist. we also worked on harmony vocals ( i still suck at harmony). I'm forever grateful i did that.
it led to me being a front man. i still front my own group and can hold my own in a duo situ.
the more you have in your trick bag the more valuable you become.
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name [MP] for info-
repair videos on YouTube.
you can reach me via Facebook. Mark Prados
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Aussiesucker
1325 posts
Oct 02, 2013
1:44 PM
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I have found that a good reference book on singing is 'Singing For Dummies' by Pamela Phillips. I got it from Amazon. It comes with a CD and lots of vocal exercises. The book is supplemental to a Singing Teacher or Vocal Coach which I think is essential when first starting out.
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HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
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jbear
37 posts
Oct 02, 2013
2:37 PM
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jbone I have a SM57 and a bullet - I don't like playing harp through the bullet so I was thinking SM57 for harp, bullet for singing! I sang through it a bit and it sounds fine to me so I guess I'll give that a go as a starter.
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jbear
38 posts
Oct 02, 2013
2:54 PM
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By the way, I've read everyone's messages carefully and this info is gold. I appreciate it a lot. You can't buy advice like this!
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GEEZER1
196 posts
Oct 02, 2013
3:10 PM
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I sing through my JT 30, works great, and no complaints.
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TexasRico
6 posts
Oct 02, 2013
7:14 PM
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jbear, lots of good advice here. I actually started out as the singer in our band and picked up harp along the way. The fact that your band mates "volunteered" you should give you confidence - they likely wouldn't ask you if they didn't think you couldn't pull it off. Have fun, take care of your voice, and by all means if you have the time and money, take some lessons. Don't stop recording yourself. That helped me get "used" to my voice -- it's always disorienting at first. Depending on your set list, the bullet mic might work -- I play harp through a bullet, though on one verse of Susie Q, I sing through it -- always gets a good crowd reaction, though a bit of a novelty. Good luck and let us know how it goes!
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jbear
46 posts
Nov 26, 2013
4:57 AM
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Time to report back.
I sang! I've done two gigs now, with a third lined up in a couple of weeks. First was a party with about 50 people. I managed to not be nervous which ironically was my biggest fear (of appearing nervous - I think that would ruin it for the audience).
So the learning process went sort of like this:
- Sang at home, recording myself, listening back and cringing, learning the words.
- About 1/3 of the songs I tried sounded OK.
- Had 2 lessons from a vocal coach. She explained breathing exercises. I am working hard to try and remember to sing from my stomach, it's difficult. I was 'oversinging' in the beginning.
- Volunteered to sing 3 songs in the band. First practice, I was nervous. Second/third practice, I decided not to worry.
- First gig - went fine - very slightly nervous but wouldn't have appeared so.
- Second gig - went fine although I forgot the first line of the first song (!) and had to wait for it to come to me.
- Both times, the monitors weren't loud enough and I couldn't hear myself. Ended up singing very loud, probably didn't sound great, and my throat didn't feel good after.
Lessons learned:
- Anyone can do it (everyone can sing - just get used to your own voice)
- Don't oversing - the idea is to tell a story, not force it down people's throats
- It takes a little experimentation to find/tailor songs for your own voice and skill level
- Make sure you can hear yourself properly. This is easy in practice but hard to sort out during a gig. I haven't got it right yet
Really glad I have tried! Gonna be learning to get better for a long time though!
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JInx
643 posts
Nov 26, 2013
10:36 AM
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But isn't it true that some people just can not sing in tune?
Like me for example, I can get in tune, sort of… but it takes tons of concentration and effort. While my little 6 year old niece, she can sing like a bird, effortlessly.
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Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
Last Edited by JInx on Nov 26, 2013 10:38 AM
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barbequebob
2389 posts
Nov 26, 2013
12:31 PM
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One of the reasons why some people seemingly can't sing is partially by the way they learned how to speak. For some people, what may be needed is to adjust how the embouchure of their lips are for either vowels or consonants are in order to adapt. For me, when singing the "E," I was taught by a vocal coach to sort of slightly "smile it out" to properly form it or it would almost always get out of tune. For some people, it may be a different way needed, and so here's the value of hooking up with a reputable vocal coach comes in.
Now, is everyone gonna have the same range? No, because everyone is different but you can learn to maximize your range, not just from lowest to highest note possible, but also the actual dynamic range (which, just like playing harmonica, this is where breath control comes in).
Many people often need proper breathing taught to them because often times by the way they tend to do things, there isn't enough proper breath support happening and often times, their breath is often being badly wasted by very poor breathing technique and if the vocal tone doesn't have proper breath support, it will be no surprise at all as to why they can't seem to carry a tune because of lack of support.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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jbone
1427 posts
Nov 27, 2013
4:34 AM
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I know singers who don't enunciate when they speak yet they have found the way to sound great while singing.
Personally I am missing 2 teeth in the top front and this has changed how I speak and to an extent how i sing. It's more obvious when I talk but let me stress, it's barely noticeable except to me.
I have a polyp on one vocal cord which developed in the past year. The guy I was working with just would not turn me up enough, nor would he let me bring my small p.a. DON'T fall into this trap. I now have to not sing for at least 3 months and probably more. I blame myself in part since I kept showing up and over-straining week after week and gig after gig. I kept hoping this clod would end up accommodating my needs.
I have never had this sort of issue in the project with my wife Jolene. we keep our volume reasonable and the vocals are always where they should be.
I suggest that when you get on stage, sing at lower volume during sound check. Then during the gig don't use all you've got except when the dynamic of a song requires it.
The voice is probably mankind's first instrument. It has been used for millennia. It has been the most abused as well I think. Yet if we act responsibly, ie take lessons, prepare, stretch, exercise, sing within reason, we can sing our whole lives with no real problems. Believe me, I am not looking forward to NOT SINGING for months until this p;olyp issue is resolved. If I do this now i have a good chance of getting my voice back all the way.
Part of how I arrived here was blowing off my exercises and warmups as well as allowing my p.a. volume to be set too low. If you keep up with your responsibilities to your voice you will keep it healthy and in good shape.
I stopped smoking 2 1/2 years ago and this has been a good thing.
jbear, go forward the right way and you will be busy, happy, and fulfilled!
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http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
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jbear
47 posts
Nov 27, 2013
4:51 AM
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Thank you! During practice, when I have the sound set up the way I want and vocals nice and loud, it sounds reasonable and I am not straining whatsoever (except for effect, occasionally). I don't feel strained in any way afterwards and that's how it should be.
Good suggestion for sound check - I guess it's the same as harp - play quietly during set up so you have plenty of headway should you need it.
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Frank
3403 posts
Nov 28, 2013
8:11 AM
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Tbone on geetar...singer?
Last Edited by Frank on Nov 28, 2013 8:12 AM
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tmf714
2216 posts
Nov 28, 2013
9:46 AM
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"Tbone on geetar...singer?"
Shakey Jake
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groyster1
2475 posts
Nov 28, 2013
7:00 PM
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have been thinking about a voice coach....for throat vibrato and if I can sing gut bucket blues after that....great
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BronzeWailer
1169 posts
Nov 28, 2013
10:20 PM
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Go for it groyster! I thought about it for over a year before I signed up. The other benefit is you can practice singing while driving. Safer than harping and driving.
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BronzeWailer's YouTube
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nacoran
7379 posts
Nov 28, 2013
10:52 PM
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Jbone, that's the one risk with singing. If you play your harp too loud, you bust a reed. If you sing too loud, you bust your throat. In my college years I was a big grunge fan, and I used to turn my very loud stereo up to about 7 and sing along at full force. I ended up destroying my throat. For several years after any strain and I'd start gagging. I should have known better. I was in choir, but I wanted to get that ragged sound.
BronzeWailer, good point about singing in the car. My radio has been busted in my car for, well, a long time. I take a recording device on longer trips. It's where I do some of my best songwriting. (This will seem like a bit random to most of you, but, now that I think about it more, I do have one song about being in prison! It's really about cars though...
'Now the cops they got my car
and I'm sitting in this cell
Next time I'll build it faster
And the cops can go to hell!'
I did that as call and response with the audience once at an open mic. I was practicing my stage banter, and right before I got to that line, I stopped the song and asked if there were any cops in the audience. Some strange old guy walked up to me and stood right in front of me and started to explain that he used to be with the secret police in New York city. I got so flustered I completely forgot the line and had to skip over it. :)
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Nate
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