Grey Owl
318 posts
Sep 24, 2013
10:54 AM
|
currently still performing regularly and playing a non-valved richter tuned diatonic harmonica. Just harp playing not harp/singer.(I mean not counting the power of the vocals also as a reason for choosing them)
----------
Grey Owl YouTube
Grey Owl Abstract Photos
Last Edited by Grey Owl on Sep 24, 2013 2:06 PM
|
Kingley
3159 posts
Sep 24, 2013
11:07 AM
|
I like a lot of different players for different reasons. It would be impossible to nail it down to one. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Some are great overblow players, some are great country players, some are great jazz players, some are great traditional blues players, some are great country blues players, some are great modern blues players, some are great folk music players, etc, etc. Even within some specific genres I have a number of favourites that would be impossible to choose between.
|
Stevelegh
849 posts
Sep 24, 2013
11:10 AM
|
Todd.
|
timeistight
1384 posts
Sep 24, 2013
12:31 PM
|
Howard Levy.
|
Rarko
40 posts
Sep 24, 2013
12:32 PM
|
JASON RICCI
|
Frank
2819 posts
Sep 24, 2013
12:34 PM
|
Howard Levy...
|
HawkeyeKane
2035 posts
Sep 24, 2013
12:40 PM
|
Taking the singing factor out of the equation...I'm inclined to agree with Howard Levy.
----------
Hawkeye Kane
|
bluegate
15 posts
Sep 24, 2013
1:15 PM
|
Charlie McCoy
|
robbert
246 posts
Sep 24, 2013
1:57 PM
|
Clint Hoover.
|
Tuckster
1348 posts
Sep 24, 2013
2:22 PM
|
robbert- Just had my first lesson with Clint last night. Fantastic player!
I'm with Kingley on this. Can't pick just one as the best.
|
didjcripey
629 posts
Sep 24, 2013
2:38 PM
|
Define 'best'.
----------
Lucky Lester
Last Edited by didjcripey on Sep 24, 2013 2:39 PM
|
Frank
2822 posts
Sep 24, 2013
2:43 PM
|
Define 'best'....
Use your personal experiences from the harp players you have heard so far in your lifetime and take a pick :)
|
FreeWilly
342 posts
Sep 24, 2013
3:13 PM
|
Dennis Gruenling
|
Gnarly
714 posts
Sep 24, 2013
3:28 PM
|
Mickey Raphael
|
harpdude61
1838 posts
Sep 24, 2013
3:38 PM
|
J.R.
Definition of best? Not sure but I do know Jason can do about anything any other player can do.
Can anyone go to his level and duplicate some of his nuances and phrasing? I have not heard it.
He is not just about technique either. He is as soulful as they come.
|
Rick Davis
2413 posts
Sep 24, 2013
4:20 PM
|
Deak Harp or Dennis Gruenling or Kim Wilson or Ronnie Shellist or Nic Clark.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
|
kudzurunner
4279 posts
Sep 24, 2013
4:54 PM
|
By way of an answer, here's a remarkable video that my wife recently showed me. Oprah got pretty much every great gospel/R&B diva together one sunny Sunday morning and each of them took the mic, in turn, in a spontaneous throwdown.
Who is the best? Or is that the wrong question?
|
MichaelAndrewLo
571 posts
Sep 24, 2013
5:06 PM
|
Dave Kaplan.
----------
Andrew Larson, R.N.
|
NiteCrawler .
241 posts
Sep 24, 2013
5:13 PM
|
@ Rick Davis,I,m not taking anything away from Ronnie or Nic great players in they,re own respect but c,mon dude ,to put them in the same league as Kim,Dennis,Adam,Rod,Rick,Howard,Portnoy,Jason,Sankey,etc,etc,etc, not to mention so many other pro players and non pro,players,I see a little bias here because you work alot with them,unless your only kidding,I hope.Just my two(common) sense.
|
Rick Davis
2415 posts
Sep 24, 2013
5:22 PM
|
NiteCrawler, is it okay with you if I express my opinion in an Internet forum?
For the tone I like in blues harp, yep, Ronnie and Nic deserve to be mentioned in a list of the "best." I think if you asked some of the players you listed they would agree with me.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Sep 24, 2013 5:23 PM
|
walterharp
1175 posts
Sep 24, 2013
5:38 PM
|
Over all technically, Howard Levy. What he does might not float your boat, but nobody else can do all that. Jason Ricci has said as much in some of his posts. I bet if you polled all the other top names on this list, most would say the same. I have heard him do some traditional blues on Prairie Home Companion, and he can even throw down the traditional tone there...I think it was a high point for Boris to get to play with Levy. Once you open it up to who is best at style X, then all bets are off.
|
sonny3
40 posts
Sep 24, 2013
5:48 PM
|
I'll throw out Joe filisko.Mooncat can throw down with anyone too.
|
tmf714
2049 posts
Sep 24, 2013
6:26 PM
|
Howard Levy.
|
Gnarly
715 posts
Sep 24, 2013
6:55 PM
|
I can always answer this one when the topic comes up on guitar sites--Django Reinhardt, since he accomplished what he did with only two fingers on his left hand.
Harp, I dunno--Little Walter is great, and I am a big fan of Howard.
Mickey covers a large number of styles, always knows when (and how) to support the vocalist, and can play a lot more than he does.
I just wanted to include him, he probably makes as much money as anyone else on the short list.
|
kudzurunner
4280 posts
Sep 24, 2013
6:56 PM
|
Rick: Ronnie and Nic both have wonderful tone, yes. Ronnie is, in addition, a seasoned player who has made a couple of albums. He's in the mix. But I suspect that he'd cringe at your nomination. He knows how many great players are out there. We both do. We just shared a stage with Aki Kumar and David Barrett.
As for Nic: he hasn't begun to pay the sort of dues that he'll eventually pay. Has he made a first album yet? Maybe you should allow him to do that--and tour, and work it, and live the life--before you put him forward in this sort of thread. Because you'll force some of old heads to get real, as I'm being real, simply to bring some sense of proportion to the whole thing. The best living harp player? Nic? Really? I certainly hope he has that ambition, but I suspect that he, too, is cringing at your nomination. Settle down, my friend! The first lesson we old heads teach--and you should know this, and surely do--is Take your time. There's time. There's time. Give it time.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Sep 24, 2013 7:00 PM
|
Frank
2823 posts
Sep 24, 2013
7:11 PM
|
With forums it is literally impossible to keep folks on the same page...I'm just making an obvious observation here, but the simple question is (Who is the best Harp Player) not Who "are"...
With the above paragraph in mind...What is 1 + 1
If you said 2, you're wrong
1 + 1 are digits and a symbol
If I ask what does 1 + 1 equal
On a forum with many unique folks involved, how many do you believe will answer the question as asked...
Does it matter, not really -
if someone said 1 + 1 = 3 would anyone on an internet forum care, probably some.
Would all the answers eventually reveal some sort of reality based logic, maybe, maybe not -
Relative subjectivity pulls the strings on internet forums - but is that a legitimate reason to fudge to numbers or the question asked.
Does it even matter, no...
And since most contributions to the threads are pointless, they are yet, still valid and important to the discussion simply because -
to discuss is harmless in and of itself - and ultimately it's not about who is right or wrong or big man on campus,
but who is willing to become the servant of his brothers and sisters - thus leading those lost souls to a place where no one cares and love is but a beautiful word :)
Last Edited by Frank on Sep 24, 2013 7:15 PM
|
kudzurunner
4281 posts
Sep 24, 2013
7:12 PM
|
One traditional way to define "best" in this sort of context is easy: In a head-cutting contest--two players on stage--who can cut everybody's head? We're talking about a live contest, one on one--an imaginary elimination tournament.
If that's the criterion, then stage smarts and wisdom bred by hundreds of gigs under every sort of condition, in every kind of room, before every sort of audience, mean something. "Best" doesn't mean the sympathy vote for the talented kid. Nor does it mean "he who plays fastest." In a blues context, if we're talking blues, it means a big forceful sound AND the ability to play to the audience AND the ability to battle out of apparent dead ends and defeat, if defeat should beckon, by coming up with something the other player hasn't thought of, can't do, or isn't willing to match.
If those are the criteria, if it's about the live battle before an audience, then although Howard is absolutely the technical wiz and would have to be counted as top 3 under any circumstances, I would place a fair bit of stock in the wiles of veterans like Rod and Rick. I also think that both Jason and Sugar Blue would find ways to match whatever is going on and surprise. Finally, I suspect that Kim Wilson, in all three positions--and I assume that the player in question would have to work first, second, and third--would certainly also end up in a top 3 slot.
If forced to pick the four players who, in an elimination event, would end up going at it, I'd pick Kim Wilson, Jason Ricci, Sugar Blue, and Howard Levy. I think Howard is the least effective at projecting a big sound, amped up, but the moment you're backing away from the mic, he's worlds of trouble.
I think the final three would end up with Sugar Blue getting cut. (He's on this website's top 10 list not just because of his raw blow-down ability, but also because of his role in moderning the harp-driven blues ensemble and breaking certain technical limits many years ago.)
So you end up with Howard, Jason, and Kim, after Sugar Blue burns white hot and falls out. You tell me who wins THAT head-cutting contest.
Of course, others may define "best" differently. Please do. Grey Owl didn't say that this competition was only about blues players.
I'd like to think that Mitch Kashmar could cut heads with these three guys, but I'm not sure he's got quite the killer instinct that they've all got.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Sep 24, 2013 7:23 PM
|
walterharp
1176 posts
Sep 24, 2013
7:23 PM
|
If you go with the cheesy Crossroad guitar duel with the Devil, the Ralph Macchio character wins by busting out the classical licks... Howard Levy wins...
|
HarpNinja
3477 posts
Sep 24, 2013
7:25 PM
|
Well, as soon as it goes away from blues, Kim is out. Howard is currently in third, but as soon as you go to any other genre, Howard would take Jason.
----------
Mantra Customized Harmonicas
My Website
|
HarpNinja
3478 posts
Sep 24, 2013
7:28 PM
|
Rumor is Buddha cut heads with a few listed here and "won". I may or may not have witnessed that myself with what may or may not be some of the biggest names on here...
----------
Mantra Customized Harmonicas
My Website
|
shbamac
374 posts
Sep 24, 2013
8:01 PM
|
Buddha could play that harp...
Is the glass half full or is it half empty... it is neither IMO
I think these kinds of questions are can be fun but kind of pointless. If you were to take all these players to a place where no one has ever heard of a harmonica, who would win?
|
robbert
247 posts
Sep 24, 2013
8:02 PM
|
I think the who is the 'best player' question is a trick question, but one that I happen to love.
I threw Clint's name into the mix because I respond to his utter soulfulness, and amazing technical proficiency on both chromatic and diatonic harps. He is a great jazz player and his take on early jazz/blues diatonic style is so articulate.
However, when I listen to any of the players mentioned above (and many more), I am always captivated by whatever level of proficiency the particular artist has attained, and what they are expressing.
I've never heard a more clarion tone that Brendan Power's, I've never heard any technical ability to match Howard Levy's, and I marvel at Little Walter's vocabulary and sense of swing...the list is endless.
I cannot listen to a steady dose of any one artist for too long without changing it up, because everyone has some focus to offer, in technique, style, mood or expression.
|
Chris L
8 posts
Sep 24, 2013
8:07 PM
|
I wouldn't want to put forward anyone as the best, but surely Christelle Berthon and Carlos Del Junco make unique contributions and deserve seats in this harmonica pantheon....
|
Rick Davis
2419 posts
Sep 24, 2013
8:46 PM
|
I stand by my list. "Best" is subjective, no? I don't really care for the sound of Howard Levy and some others mentioned here. I admire their technical prowess but their music does not move me at all. How can they be "best" for me?
Is Buddy Greene the "best" player? Maybe Stevie Wonder? Charlie McCoy is a good choice. Big Pete?
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
|
Rick Davis
2420 posts
Sep 24, 2013
8:46 PM
|
This may be pedantic, but the OT asks for the best "harp" player. To me that nickname rises from the Delta and denotes the blues. Had the question been about harmonica players I would have answered differently, I think.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Sep 24, 2013 8:51 PM
|
Rick Davis
2421 posts
Sep 24, 2013
8:58 PM
|
Adam, you asked if Nic had recorded his first album. He is featured on Bad Brad & The Fat Cats new album. You can listen to much of it on the Mile High Blues Society Website. The link is below my sig.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
|
Aussiesucker
1322 posts
Sep 24, 2013
10:02 PM
|
Mickey Raphael.
----------
HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
|
nacoran
7158 posts
Sep 24, 2013
10:09 PM
|
I can't figure out. There are enough different styles it comes down to comparing apples to oranges and it's too hard to strip out the rest of their harp performance from the rest of their stuff. Just listening to Sugar Blue, Jason, James Cotton...
And then you have guys who aren't 'great' harp players but who are doing things I really like, like Son of Dave, and guys who aren't sticking to blues...
I'd love to see a tour just of harp boxers and genre hoppers too.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
FreeWilly
344 posts
Sep 25, 2013
2:56 AM
|
As a response to Adam's last contribution, I would like to post this vid (has been posted here before).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83eb-n1BXXk#t=64
It shows the craftsmanship of an old dog, in this case Rod Piazza. And it shows (in my perception), that Dennis Gruenling cuts his head regardless. If you would ask that room who was the better player... Dennis would take the cake, I'd say. Masterfull tone and very imaginative phrasing and melodic ideas. Would Kim Wilson cut that head? I doubt it (although I would loooooove to see them get vicious).
So I kinda stand by Dennis so far. But... if Jason Ricci taps into that spiritual 'place', playing the Spiers harps and not those raspy unwilling things he's fighting nowadays.. He might convince some that there's more going on there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_JvKci-uZ0
Who's gonna cut that head indeed...
Last Edited by FreeWilly on Sep 25, 2013 3:50 AM
|
Michael Rubin
799 posts
Sep 25, 2013
5:21 AM
|
I define technical ability as the ability to perform techniques well. Levy is very limited in his technical ability. He plays single notes in the pucker style, uses tongue blocking for the drone style, is great at overblows and overdraws, has an interesting bend vibrato, can play low and high notes well, uses a cup well and can play very fast. 7 techniques.
Let's compare with Cotton. Plays 100% tongue blocked well. Great at tongue slaps. Has great wah wah technique. Kills at high note blow bends. Has great double stop dirt technique. Great mic technique with a bullet. Best hand held 58 technique ever. Great off mic technique. Incredible throat vibrato. Octaves. Great shakes.
Wow, seems to me Cotton is far technically superior to Levy, as are many players.
I appreciate Levy and he was very influential to the way I think about harp but that's as far as it goes for me.
To answer the question, I think Cotton and Estrin are the best.
|
Buzadero
1120 posts
Sep 25, 2013
5:28 AM
|
"Best"
I love that.
My late dear Mum (the English professor, and trained classical pianist) is both rolling and snickering in her grave. She would come back to slap me if I were to get suckered into this discussion.
----------
~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
|
harpdude61
1839 posts
Sep 25, 2013
6:10 AM
|
I like it Adam! Head cutting on a blues stage with a party audience!
Howard can hang technically with Jason, but for raw blues power and exciting an audience... Mr. Ricci would run off and leave them all. (Wish you guys had seen the players swarm toward the stage when Jason stepped up at HCH II. People like Jimi Lee were shaking the heard and commenting un-f'in real!).
Howard is the biggest innovator of overbending for all types of harmonica music, but I have never heard him use it like Jason does. Have you guys not heard Jason use a 7 overdraw as a passing note and inflect a bend up 1/2 step with growl, color and vibrato. The cat is on the note 1/2 second. No one, I mean no one has the ability to get the most out of a harp like Jason. His spirit and feel for the blues is also unrivaled.
I don't have affiliation with any of these players. I've met Jason but he would not remember me. I just use my ears, absorb, and feel. Let's slide away from personal opinions for a minute and speculate.
We have an audience of 10,000 avid blues fans at a blues n beer festival that have no idea who any of these guys are. We have a head cuttin contest on stage with the top 8 mentioned here (If Jason ain't in your top 8 you don't get it)
I'm not sure some of these guys, if any, would even want to participate if they saw Jason! Even though they are getting paid for it.
I would even support my beliefs here with a substantial wager on Mr. Ricci if bets were being taken. C'mon guys..show me how you would set the odds!
Sure all would get plenty of support and it would be awesome! Jason would win if this were the setting.
C'mon Adam! I know you like to nudge things along and observe from the sideline occasionally...but I believe I know where your bets would go if this were the scenario.
|
Michael Rubin
800 posts
Sep 25, 2013
6:23 AM
|
Harpdude, I have similiar beefs with the praise of Jason as unquestionably one of the bests. I enjoy Jason's music, especially live, but I guess I don't get it, because he is not in my top 8. He's probably in my top 20. To me, it's about who hits my "Yeah!" button the most. We all have different reasons that button gets hit and those reasons change as we get older.
Last Edited by Michael Rubin on Sep 25, 2013 6:29 AM
|
CapitalG
13 posts
Sep 25, 2013
6:26 AM
|
Gotta be joe filisko for my personal taste.
|
The Iceman
1187 posts
Sep 25, 2013
6:41 AM
|
Lotsa mention about "head cutting".
Am not a real fan of this, but have had huge success over the years (winning harmonica competitions, etc) by Zen Gunslinging....kinda like "anti-head cutting".
Basically, when put up there against other players, as they get louder and faster with each "round", I'll get quieter and simpler.
Works every time for me.
Besides, head cutting is too ego driven for my tastes, although there is nothing wrong with ego driven for recognition amongst the general population.
----------
The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Sep 25, 2013 6:41 AM
|
tmf714
2050 posts
Sep 25, 2013
6:48 AM
|
"Levy is very limited in his technical ability."
That just makes me LMFAO-
|
wheel
249 posts
Sep 25, 2013
6:54 AM
|
For me "the best" is the one who can play many genres well. In this terms I think about
1. Levy
2. JJ Milteau
3. Jim Liban
4. Jason Ricci
5. Mitch Kashmar
6. Charlie Musselwhite
7. Steve Cohen
I vote for Jim Liban :)
----------
my music
|
Michael Rubin
801 posts
Sep 25, 2013
7:11 AM
|
TMF, Laugh away, although excellent at the techniques Levy uses, there are but few of them. Or can you name some that I did not?
Now, for the record, I am definitely using sensationalism to prove a point. Howard is technically excellent. But so are a lot of other people and in my opinion many people are far more technically advanced than Levy.
|
The Iceman
1188 posts
Sep 25, 2013
7:20 AM
|
Jason is definitely a force of nature on the harmonica and has inspired so many.
He is of the new young lion mold....mostly lotsa notes and fast in performance. I find that hearing him live, this burns me out after about 20 minutes.
I prefer someone that will keep me on board for a whole set or night...Del Junco, Kim Wilson, DeLay, etc.
Remember, age does make a difference in what pleases you musically and does tend to change with time, as Michael commented.
----------
The Iceman
|
groyster1
2405 posts
Sep 25, 2013
7:33 AM
|
I predict this thread will not have a conclusion
|
