Gnarly
654 posts
Aug 06, 2013
8:13 AM
|
Sounded fine to me, what do I know, I play guitar better than harmonica anyway.
The crowd seemed happy.
On the second song, the tonality is dominant, not minor, and the first notes of the song sounded wrong--Eb over a D chord, that's modern all right.
I assume that is a Bb harp, since the song is in C and you seem to be playing third position.
Once the tune developed, my ear adjusted to the disparity.
I have no advice about being in a band, hope it works out for you.
|
JInx
479 posts
Aug 06, 2013
8:20 AM
|
I don't know.... if you could lead a tune, I bet things would come together more for you. Time to up your game and step out front.
-------I---
Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
|
Rick Davis
2195 posts
Aug 06, 2013
8:32 AM
|
Tuckster, ouch!
On "Yonder Wall" it sounded like everybody was playing a different song, all of them bad (except you). When the guitarist hit that corny flourish at the end I wanted to go over and slap him.
BUT....
The people liked it and the dance floor was full. That is Mission Accomplished.
If you are looking to play in a blues band you are in a black hole, though. Good harp players have the best results when they form their own bands.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Aug 06, 2013 8:37 AM
|
nacoran
7011 posts
Aug 06, 2013
9:09 AM
|
"When the guitarist hit that corny flourish at the end I wanted to go over and slap him." -Rick Davis
Rick, I think that's in guitar players contracts, if not their DNA.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
Frank
2590 posts
Aug 06, 2013
9:27 AM
|
You the man Tuck...that may be the most people I've ever seen dancing to a local bar band :)
More Rockin blues...
|
KingoBad
1367 posts
Aug 06, 2013
9:56 AM
|
Tell the drummer "one and a TWO and a one and a TWO and a"....
Not "one and two and one and two."
----------
Danny
|
joe
29 posts
Aug 06, 2013
4:26 PM
|
when i taught guitar [another life ago]
i always taught acoustically
i would have people come in who
- 'wanted to learn how to riff' - had their
just bought electric and most would confess
that i 'just can't seem to make it sound any good'
i would tell them that i taught acoustically so that
they learned how to get good sound out of the instrument
and play rhythmically before they got
near an electric
i was in a position to have them play along with
others and they soon realized that being able to
hear everyone was hugely important for their own
playing
players get seduced by the electronics not realizing
they need to be a musician first
without a good sound and at least some musical thinking,
it is going to end up in a heap
electronics makes many forget about balance in the group
you've got about 1 minute to convince me that you have
a balanced sound before i think you need a rethink
"
If you are looking to play in a blues band you are in a black hole, though. Good harp players have the best results when they form their own bands.
" - Rick Davis
... or at least someone who puts the ego aside and leads the group for the best sound, like a conductor of a larger group
----------
UTC+10
----------
UTC+10
Last Edited by joe on Aug 06, 2013 4:34 PM
|
Lmbrjak
163 posts
Aug 06, 2013
5:17 PM
|
Tuckster,you seem focused on what you need from the band.How about what the band needs from you? I can hear in that video a very skilled player playing half-heartedly. That video looks like Fri. night party-time and that sexy blonde has no problem groovin to the band. That lead guitar backed off and gave you ample opportunity to let it rip,but you seemed to lack enthusiasm. I agree that is NOT a Jimmy Reed groove which I prefer also,but lots of players,including me would love to blast a little rock and roll with these guy. Better to leave and open the way for someone else than to keep bitchin' and lose some friends.
|
Littoral
956 posts
Aug 06, 2013
5:49 PM
|
Lmbrjak, ah, hard to launch when the runway is full of pot holes and dog legs. I'd put most of the stumbling on the bass player -way busy.
But, like others said, they were dancing. That may be the weirdest thing of all and says I have no idea WHAT I'm talking about.
|
capnj
144 posts
Aug 06, 2013
7:07 PM
|
Good God almighty yonder wall is not an allman brothers blues rock number,tell him to listen to buddy guy play with junior on that one,learn something,and broaden himself.Your harp sounds fine.
I've played with some guys,and everything turns into like stormy monday.Really is hard to find somebody that can play it all,those cats haved moved on.Alex Shultz played with a crazy harp guy Lester Butler,man Lester left us too early,but he had a flair to him that transcended just blues,he rocked,played country with johny cash,and ripped it up with mus. of all strains,did an album with Mick Jagger.
Jason mooncat wrote an article in barretts rock harp book saying sometimes you got to do whatever comes your way.I wish I had his exact words at hand,but do not give up.
Nice Guy lives close,rock guitarist.He likes my harp,but when he tells me oh the blues is easy,yeah if it was that easy,why can't he play them.Just like the guys put down country,bluegrass stuff,go ahead baby see if you can sound good with it,of course they are stuck in their own comfort zone,something I am always aware of not doing.
|
Tuckster
1315 posts
Aug 06, 2013
9:53 PM
|
Lmbrjak = You can't play what you can't feel. I wasn't feeling it on that song. Try playing to that groove without falling back on some hackneyed stuff you stole from the masters.
That blonde played keys in the band that opened.
It was a very enthusiastic receptive audience. This was rather late in the night when the booze had really kicked in.Dancers always make a band happy. The people at this club liked to party.
Danny- That's good advice and would help that song,but that's just the tip of the iceberg.
|
Frank
2594 posts
Aug 07, 2013
4:35 AM
|
I must admit, I like to romp and stomp now and again :)
|
didjcripey
595 posts
Aug 07, 2013
5:42 AM
|
Yeah, its a tough one. Especially if you're in a small town with not too many bands to choose from.
Its all very well to say walk off and find another band, or create your own, but that may not always be an option. I think it would be a very lucky musician indeed who found the perfect band to play with who were not only willing but able to play what he (or she) wanted.
The way our band does some songs just kills me, but its the best band that I can be a part of at the moment, and some of the stuff we do I love. I think that there is no such thing as bad practice, and like the man said sometimes you just gotta take what comes your way.
Even if its not fun anymore, if you love the music enough maybe it will pave the way for something better.
----------
Lucky Lester
|
Rick Davis
2203 posts
Aug 07, 2013
6:53 AM
|
I'm not too sure about the advice for Tuckster to just step up and lead the band. Band politics are tough to navigate, and taking control of a band that is not "yours" is almost impossible. A guitar player/singer (who is probably the band leader) won't take well to being told how to play. He may think of the harp as a ornamental addition to the band's sound.
Here is my "romp and stomp" video. The guitar player -- Steve Mignano -- is almost always too loud. But he has such exceptional talent that it was forgiven. Steve in now touring worldwide with Cassie Taylor.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
|
JInx
483 posts
Aug 07, 2013
7:06 AM
|
"I'm not too sure about the advice for Tuckster to just step up and lead the band. Band politics are tough to navigate, and taking control of a band that is not "yours" is almost impossible."
Yeah, especially since these guys are already getting paid and the girls are dancing. A change aint likely to go over well. But, since they are friends it might be worth a shot, at least for just one tune. And if the audience responds, I bet the boys would be on board.
The way to approach them, is in rehearsal....show up with a tune you can perform solo....it must be complete with the groove and the hook. You need to make them "hear" what you are after, then they can fill in to support you (or not). Just my two cents.
----------
Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
Last Edited by JInx on Aug 07, 2013 7:23 AM
|
Frank
2597 posts
Aug 07, 2013
7:35 AM
|
"You Can Lead A Guitarist To louis Meyers But You Can't Make Him relish it"
Last Edited by Frank on Aug 07, 2013 7:40 AM
|
timeistight
1314 posts
Aug 07, 2013
10:44 AM
|
I think Jinx makes a good point: if you bring an arranged song to the band, then you'll be in a better position to "train" them to play it the way you want (within their abilities, of course).
"Yonder Wall," on the other hand, seems to belong to the guitar player, so he gets to say how he wants it to go. If you can't feel it, maybe you should sit out for that tune. Or maybe play cowbell; tune needs more cowbell.
|
Lmbrjak
164 posts
Aug 07, 2013
11:08 AM
|
@Littoral, When it comes to the music skills of Tucksters' band mates,and the difficulties of playing along with them I do believe you Know what you are talking about. I am just an old retired lumberjack that has never been in a band and most of the things that skilled musicians notice,I don't. I was speaking as a member of the audience.
@ Tuckster: You just confirmed what I thought I saw in the video. My thought is don't play at all or play just a few fills on those numbers you don't like but give them your best energy.
|
Tuckster
1316 posts
Aug 07, 2013
11:51 AM
|
Rick- "He may think of the harp as a ornamental addition to the band's sound. "
I'm beginning to think that's exactly what it is. I play on a lot of songs that had no harp on them. Often I have to work hard to find something that fits the song. I'm not central to the song but I (hopefully) add something to it.
Lmbrjak- I've adamantly insisted that I don't want to play that song and they adamantly insist I play that song. I just think they don't get it!
I've brought songs I want to play. They've pretty much ignored me. I'm starting to think the egos are just too big.
Another thing- When you say that's not a harp friendly song,they think you're a whiner or prima donna. I'm willing to try anything,but I know from experience what works.
|
Lmbrjak
165 posts
Aug 07, 2013
12:30 PM
|
Wow Tuck, they obviously don't get it.Doesn't sound like it's going to change either. Hope you can find a better fit somewhere.
|
timeistight
1316 posts
Aug 07, 2013
1:09 PM
|
It sounds like you're a sideman in someone else's band (probably the guitar player's). You can either a) accept that and make the best of that role, or b) resign from the band as nicely as possible and move on.
Leaving doesn't have to be a friendship killer. It might be a friendship saver, if things have gotten tense.
Last Edited by timeistight on Aug 07, 2013 1:23 PM
|
MP
2882 posts
Aug 07, 2013
1:20 PM
|
From GMaj7th
I don't really know if you can train them or not, but if you don't like the guitar player you have, just order another pizza."
Heh, heh, I was waiting for the jokes! i thought they would be pouring in. Thanx Greg! :-)
----------
MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name [MP] for info-
repair videos on YouTube.
you can reach me via Facebook. Mark Prados
|
Frank
2600 posts
Aug 08, 2013
5:29 AM
|
Blues is all about improvising...Most of what is played is improvised by the soloist - A player who knows how to utilize the blues, mixolydian and pentatonic scales can improvise rather easily with them...There really is no reason to rely on memorized licks as a soloist when playing the blues, unless a particular song calls for a very specific lick sequence...
|
The Iceman
1071 posts
Aug 08, 2013
5:54 AM
|
IMO, blues is about supporting the singer/soloist.
Improvising is secondary.
----------
The Iceman
|
Kingley
3001 posts
Aug 08, 2013
5:57 AM
|
"IMO, blues is about supporting the singer/soloist."
I agree 100%. If you ain't in the service of the song, then you ain't playing music. You're just massaging your own ego. It's as simple as that.
|
Frank
2601 posts
Aug 08, 2013
6:16 AM
|
Simply support the song while improvising :) To not improvise to blues changes would make for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG sterile and boring gig...
Last Edited by Frank on Aug 08, 2013 6:18 AM
|
Rick Davis
2206 posts
Aug 08, 2013
6:19 AM
|
Tuckster, look around and start recruiting players for your own band. There is no need to bail on this band now. It may take some time but it can be done. If it is your project you will have a lot to do with the shape it takes, no matter who the players are.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
|
Kingley
3002 posts
Aug 08, 2013
6:25 AM
|
"Simply support the song while improvising :) To not improvise to blues changes would make for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG sterile and boring gig..."
Very true Frank. You just need to make sure that what you play when improvising fits in with the needs of the song though. If you listen to Kim Wilson for example on the Ludella album for example. he's improvising left, right and centre, but he's always in the service of the song.
Tuckster - That's some good advice from Rick.
|
Frank
2603 posts
Aug 08, 2013
6:41 AM
|
I'm pretty sure that is what "Simply support the song while improvising" means - sorry if I wasn't specific enough :)
|
Kingley
3004 posts
Aug 08, 2013
6:48 AM
|
Hahaha! Yes, you're right it does mean that Frank :)
|
The Iceman
1073 posts
Aug 08, 2013
7:45 AM
|
I wouldn't improvise too much during support unless I was Kim Wilson.
The challenge for most is to not get bored by providing solid simple support. If the player is bored, it shows in the product.
I've reinforced the bass line note for note (w/TB groove) during many blues tunes (as long as bassist sticks to the basics) and it only strengthened the sound.
It's not easy to stay simple and not be bored.
Miles Davis hired Michael Henderson away from Stevie Wonder when Miles wanted to explore funk/groove that stayed in one place. He could not use anyone versed in jazz, as they tended to get bored playing the I chord for an extended period of time and improvised too much.
If you want a textbook study on how to groove simply on one chord, listen to Michael play on Miles' first electric band releases.
It's amazing to hear one line played over and over and still sound fresh and vital.
Michael did add a few notes here and there over time so that it didn't sound like a loop, but it never destroyed the groove.
----------
The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Aug 08, 2013 7:47 AM
|
Tuckster
1317 posts
Aug 08, 2013
8:01 AM
|
How about improvising while always supporting the song? :>) That's always my goal,but until I become a master that doesn't always happen. LOL
Band practice tonight and I still haven't said anything about quitting. We've only gotten together a few times in the last couple months,but every time I think I should quit and then chicken out.Should I just lay it all out on the line. Say: Look guys,we're all friends but you play too fing loud and too fing fast and if you don't change,I'm gonna have to bail? I'm really at the limits of my tolerance for this s**t. It's gotten to the point where I dread practice and gigs.
I think one of my best assets is I'm a team player but perhaps I went too far and didn't assert myself enough.
|
Tuckster
1318 posts
Aug 08, 2013
8:05 AM
|
Iceman- Yes!! I've noticed this problem with our bass player and how it's a big part of the problem. He's way too busy.
|
Kingley
3005 posts
Aug 08, 2013
8:07 AM
|
You should do what's right for you Tuckster. Don't take anyone's advice from here as gospel. Don't stay or leave something just because someone else tells you that you should. Make your own mind up and then stick with your decision and make the best of whatever comes along with that decision.
|
Tuckster
1319 posts
Aug 08, 2013
8:22 AM
|
good advice,Kingley. I'll give it one more shot tonight and see what happens.
|
timeistight
1318 posts
Aug 08, 2013
8:35 AM
|
"Say: Look guys,we're all friends but you play too fing loud and too fing fast and if you don't change,I'm gonna have to bail? I'm really at the limits of my tolerance for this s**t. It's gotten to the point where I dread practice and gigs."
Why be so confrontational? I'd just tell them that you want to pursue a different musical direction and wish them luck. That way, you can stay friends and maybe work together down the line.
|
Tuckster
1320 posts
Aug 08, 2013
8:58 AM
|
Oops My bad. Would never say that last part except for dread part. Truth is,it ain't fun no more,but I don't want it to get nasty. It's not worth it.
|
Frank
2605 posts
Aug 08, 2013
9:09 AM
|
Again, sorry about my lack of specificity...
Support... meant - supporting the rhythm section as others grooved, soloed or sang... as well as taking solos if and when required...
You don't have to be Kim Wilson to make up, aka "improvise" a cool little blues riff that works throughout a song in a supporting role.
|
The Iceman
1075 posts
Aug 08, 2013
9:26 AM
|
Here's a challenge....
Try playing a support role in one blues shuffle using only 2 hole inhale and 3 hole exhale, surrounded by TB or simulated TB sounds.
Get a groove goin' and stick with it.
Then, try another song duplicating the bass line (as long as bass player sticks to the basics).
After these two tunes, improvise your socks off.
----------
The Iceman
|
Frank
2607 posts
Aug 08, 2013
9:38 AM
|
Exactly...what's the point of launching into an improvised solo- if you can't get a simple lasting groove going that fits the song...
Playing within the support role IS the "springboard" to confidently diving into an improvised solo :)
|
timeistight
1319 posts
Aug 08, 2013
9:52 AM
|
"Would never say that last part except for dread part."
Why even say that? "This has been a great learning experience, but I think we're headed in different musical directions. Good luck with the band and I hope you'll let me sit in next time I come to a gig."
|
Tuckster
1321 posts
Aug 08, 2013
12:27 PM
|
Time-Well said. Can I quote you verbatim?
I really don't want to leave with any animosity. This forum is the only place where I can vent my frustration.
O.T. I could always log on here and stay logged in. Now I have to log in every time I leave the forum and then return. Did the administrators change something?
|
timeistight
1320 posts
Aug 08, 2013
12:38 PM
|
Feel free. Hope you find a better situation.
Last Edited by timeistight on Aug 08, 2013 12:39 PM
|
oldwailer
1975 posts
Aug 08, 2013
3:12 PM
|
What is this thread?? The Ever Ready Fuc*in' Bunny Thread?
Just for the record--there are guitar players--then there are ELECTRIC guitar players--not the same instrument--just similar.
Guitar players, like me--can be trained--it's just slow work. Electric Guitar players--well, you gotta have a really good bass player and a really BIG drummer to train them--and never let them control their own volume knob--even if it's Eric Clapton. . .
----------
Oldwailer's Web Site
Send a tip!
"Too Pretty for the Blues."
|
1847
962 posts
Aug 08, 2013
4:09 PM
|
we are spoiled out here for sure
i saw an ad in the local blues rag
band for hire... 89 years combined experience, hire them
and just call the shots...hoochie coochi man
key of A quick change to the 4
have the drummer count you in and off you go
not sure what they charge.
if you 're smart, most likely you could make enough at the gig to pay them. maybe have enough left over for a beer.
----------
master po
|
