nacoran
6852 posts
Jun 12, 2013
7:53 PM
|
Well, we've found out why people are having problems accessing the site from Russia (and apparently China, and maybe a few other places too). Below is the exchange between me and the help desk. I've removed the support people's names. They were very professional about things, but the answer isn't great. If you need to be whitelisted, contact us at membership@modernbluesharmonica.com. You can get your ISP info at www.whatismyip.com, although if you can't see the site in the first place, you won't be reading this. Anyone in touch with the Russian language harp community, please pass this info on. I'm not sure why we didn't get this feedback the first time we filed a support ticket, but we have it now. Thanks Boris, for letting us know this was still happening. Sorry the news isn't better.
Hello Nathan,
Thank you for contacting the Support Team.
I have forwarded this case to our systems team for checking. We will get back to you via this ticket as soon as we get any updates for you.
If you have other concerns, please don't hesitate to contact us again. If you have a follow-up question or inquiry to this case, you can click on the 'Not Quite Yet' button below to respond.
Best regards,
(Support Guy 1)
Software Support Technician
-end
Hi Nathan,
In order to maintain a high level of service, we have had to place IP blocks in several countries, primarily in Russia and China. The amount of spam traffic that was hitting our servers from IPs originating in these countries was causing performance issues for all of our customers, as well as inundating thousands of websites (guestbooks, message boards, blog comments etc) with spam. We had to make the difficult decision to block the majority of traffic from these countries in order to preserve the quality of our hosting services.
While we will not be removing the block completely, we are happy to whitelist particular IP addresses from these countries so that your visitors are able to see your site as normal. If you can provide a specific IP address or range that you would like us to unblock, we will go ahead and remove the block for those addresses only.
If you have any further comments/questions, please do not hesitate to ask. You can click the 'Not Quite Yet' button below to respond.
Have a great day,
(Support Guy 2)
Software Support Technician
-end
Nate- Huh, I've never seen any spam from Russia (although we do get a lot of spam applications from China, almost as many as real applications).
Are they being blocked both directions- accessing the site to look at it and to post, or just to post? As long as they can see the site we can, I guess, put up a message telling them how to let us know they need to get whitelisted and go from there.
I've actually noticed that China was shooting itself in the foot with all the spam, since it was drowning out all the legitimate traffic from there. There is supposed to be a big harmonica community there, but we never hear from them.
Anyway, if they see the site, I guess we can work around it.
-end
Hi Nathan,
Though the spam may originate from Russia and China it may not necessarily be in Chinese or Russian characters. Often, spammers will utilize servers in other countries in order to evade detection, and the only recourse is to block the spam where it originates.
Unfortunately, visitors whose IP addresses are blocked will not be able to see the site whatsoever. When we put the block in place we looked into alternatives (such as simply preventing users from posting), but this was not possible from a technical perspective.
If you have any further comments/questions, please do not hesitate to ask. You can click the 'Not Quite Yet' button below to respond.
Have a great day,
(Support Guy 2)
Software Support Technician
-end
----------
Nate
Facebook
Last Edited by nacoran on Jun 12, 2013 7:55 PM
|
dmitrysbor
71 posts
Jun 12, 2013
11:57 PM
|
This replies from support sounds ridiculous. Just like if spam filters stop working. Poor internet providers );
They even can't stop spam as they did before.
Last Edited by dmitrysbor on Jun 13, 2013 4:02 AM
|
jim
1426 posts
Jun 13, 2013
3:17 AM
|
A large harmonica community should be able to afford decent hosting and website. That's my opinion on all this elementary school talk.
A middle-class dedicated server costs only $100 / month (Rackspace). PHPBB3 is free forum software.
----------
Free Harp Learning Center
|
kudzurunner
4119 posts
Jun 13, 2013
4:53 AM
|
Thanks for your legwork on this, Nate. I have no idea why so much spam is flooding in from Russia, but I can assure Dmitri, Jim, and our other Russian members that Macwebsitebuilder isn't making up this fact--and didn't take this extreme step without first trying other alternatives.
I don't expect our Russian members to be happy about the news that Nate has shared, or the fact that I asked him to share the complete contents of his exchange with the helpdesk. I call that transparency. I could have done without Jim's condescension, frankly.
Jim, instead of wasting time sneering at Macwebsitebuilder's "elementary school talk," why don't you take your IT talents and figure out a way, some way, that Russian forum members can evade the restrictions?
|
Greg Heumann
2200 posts
Jun 13, 2013
8:17 AM
|
@Dmitry - why does this sound ridiculous?
It sounds completely credible and reasonable to me. They identified a problem, solved it. We WERE getting more spam traffic a few years back if I remember correctly. AND they offered a solution to us for our users.
SPAM filtering of email is done after the fact based on the email's content. Preventing web site attacks is a totally different animal.
What would you have them do instead?
----------
----------
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
|
nacoran
6857 posts
Jun 13, 2013
10:52 AM
|
Greg, to be fair, the Captchas and a couple improvements to the way we can handle spam (we can now delete a bunch of comments from one thread at a time), combined with managed membership, are responsible for most of it. It used to take hours to remove one spammers work, but now, thanks to Captchas and the ability to remove more than one post at a time, it only takes a couple minutes (and most spammers give up after a couple captchas) and everyone has gotten really good about posting a thread to get an admin's attention really quickly. We also have admins in more time zones, which is a big help.
The auto-spam filter is a hassle. It catches a couple posts a day, and to my knowledge has only once caught actual spam. I have to restore messages (it's an intelligent, learning filter, so if I don't it will start generating more false positives). Restoring messages creates duplicate posts. You guys have gotten better at making posts that don't get caught.
As for blocking IP addresses, since we hand sort applications, and we've gotten pretty good at spotting fakers, really all blocking the IP addys is doing is meaning I have a few fewer applications to sort through. The problem is, I think, that most of MWSB's customers are click it and forget it customers who don't monitor for spam or hand approve applications. We are getting clobbered by heavy handed tools that are overkill on here. (Like Captcha's that can't be turned off once a member reaches a certain number of posts).
Anyway, it may be possible for people to get around the block using web anonymizers, but since the whole site is blocked, they won't see us suggesting that. I wasn't too upset when I thought it would just be no posting where we could then whitelist people, but since they can't see the site at all it basically means it's going to be a real pain for anyone affected.
I understand people's frustration.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
jim
1429 posts
Jun 13, 2013
1:04 PM
|
I've already spelled out the way to solve all problems of this forum - it needs real hosting.
----------
Free Harp Learning Center
|
Kingley
2755 posts
Jun 13, 2013
1:12 PM
|
Jim - Adam isn't going to change the forum hosting. He has made that clear on numerous occasions to you.
|
nacoran
6860 posts
Jun 13, 2013
1:39 PM
|
Going through an anonymizer service may work. They let you pick an ISP from somewhere else in the world. Since they usually have a fee, it's unlikely spammers will bother anteing up to use them. Again though, even if you are willing to spend the money for the service, it doesn't help if you can't see the site to see the advice on how to get around it.
Maybe we need to lobby the U.N. for a treaty on international internet reciprocity.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
jim
1431 posts
Jun 13, 2013
1:39 PM
|
He asked me - I answered. You've got a problem with that?
----------
Free Harp Learning Center
|
Kingley
2757 posts
Jun 13, 2013
1:45 PM
|
No Jim I don't have a problem with it. I simply find it odd that after Adam has clearly stated on numerous occasions that he won't change the website hosting, you still go on about changing it. Seeing as how Adam will not change the hosting doesn't it make more sense to try as Adam says to " take your IT talents and figure out a way, some way, that Russian forum members can evade the restrictions"?
Last Edited by Kingley on Jun 13, 2013 1:46 PM
|
jim
1432 posts
Jun 13, 2013
2:03 PM
|
And that's what I did. You can't fix a door that has been locked by someone else, and you don't have the key!
To me, such replies from tech support would be an instant indication to change hosting service. As simple as that.
You rent a house, and at one point find a bruiser at the door, who doesn't let your visitors in. Will you say "okay..." and tell your friends "sorry, but now you will have to get in through the window?"
----------
Free Harp Learning Center
|
Kingley
2758 posts
Jun 13, 2013
2:13 PM
|
"While we will not be removing the block completely, we are happy to whitelist particular IP addresses from these countries so that your visitors are able to see your site as normal. If you can provide a specific IP address or range that you would like us to unblock, we will go ahead and remove the block for those addresses only."
Well Jim if you really wanted to be helpful, you could easily email the members in Russia having the problem that you know of and get their IP addresses and pass them onto Nate. Who could then get the hosting company to unblock them. Seems a pretty simple solution to me.
|
jim
1433 posts
Jun 13, 2013
2:16 PM
|
Perhaps you could bring me a beer and a pizza then?
----------
Free Harp Learning Center
|
Kingley
2759 posts
Jun 13, 2013
2:24 PM
|
So it would seem that all you wish to do is moan about the situation rather than be proactive and assist your fellow musicians. That's a pretty sad state of affairs and speaks volumes. I'll not bother offering anymore suggestions to help solve the problem for our Russian cousins Jim, as it appears you're not really interested in helping them. Maybe somebody else will be willing to assist them in gaining access to the MBH website.
|
garry
410 posts
Jun 13, 2013
4:21 PM
|
the support reply is right on the money. changing hosting providers won't help, it's a global problem.
trust me, you wouldn't believe how difficult it is to manage the spam problem. a colleague of mine owns this problem for a large telecom company; i wouldn't attempt his job for any amount of money. it's a continual cat-and-mouse game played out in real time across the globe. it's amazing anything works at all anymore.
----------
|
dmitrysbor
72 posts
Jun 13, 2013
11:49 PM
|
Adam,
I could work on my laptop at home or at PC at office.
I could be in Russia or in States, in Ireland or Germany. I could be on vacation or on business trip and use whatever Wi-Fi hotspot be available.
And I'm not going to send my new IP everytime when I need access the forum. It sound ridiculous and not feasible.
Besides, it infringes on my privacy. Cause it looks like I should send my IP everytime when I change it.
This situation starting to remind me Orwell's "Big Brother" police state book.
You site is perfect. Do not do anything - that's good credo!
Last Edited by dmitrysbor on Jun 13, 2013 11:58 PM
|
ReedSqueal
447 posts
Jun 14, 2013
1:27 AM
|
Jim, have you ever looked up the word hubris?
----------
Go ahead and play the blues if it'll make you happy.
-Dan Castellaneta
|
Kingley
2763 posts
Jun 14, 2013
4:57 AM
|
Dmitrysbor - You obviously seem to have no problem accessing the site. Where are you based? Do you go to Russia often and if so can you still access the site when you're in Russia?
The IP thing is only to whitelist people who currently can't gain access to the site due to spam restrictions set by the hosting company. These people seem to be mostly based in Russia. You obviously wouldn't need to provide your IP as you can clearly access the forum already. Hopefully that explains things a little more clearly.
|
dmitrysbor
73 posts
Jun 14, 2013
6:14 AM
|
>Where are you based?
> You obviously wouldn't need to provide your IP as you can clearly access the forum already.
@Kingley
Dude,
it's too private and sensitive questions you've asked.
|
Kingley
2764 posts
Jun 14, 2013
6:23 AM
|
Dmitrysbor - I don't really see how asking which country you are based in is "too private and sensitive", but if it is then I apologise. We are merely trying to find workable a solution to the problem that some people can't access the MBH website.
|
isaacullah
2439 posts
Jun 14, 2013
8:10 AM
|
I've made a general announcement about this problem and its two possible solutions on the MBH Facebook group that I administrate... Hopefully it'll helps some folks!
----------
View my videos on YouTube!
Check out my songs on Soundcloud!
Visit my reverb nation page!
|
nacoran
6863 posts
Jun 14, 2013
8:30 AM
|
For what it's worth, I'm pretty frustrated with it myself, but it is what it is. The white list is an imperfect work around, especially if someone is travelling, because by the time they send us the IP, we send it to support and support acts on it, they are likely going to be somewhere else. If they aren't travelling, they may not even know we are here in the first place, since they'll be blocked.
Anonymizers should be a work around, but only if people know to use them. I suspect if MWB is doing it other servers companies are too. It's a lousy situation, but it is what it is. Maybe a petition from Russian users to MacWebstieBuilder would do something, but I doubt it. I get frustrated because they don't let us know about these changes and we end up finding out when the trouble reports start coming in.
Anyone know the cheapest anonymizers?
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
kudzurunner
4121 posts
Jun 14, 2013
9:33 AM
|
Let me just say for the record, and in this public forum, that I feel extremely lucky--and we are all extremely lucky--to have Nate generously donating his time and energy to this forum and to the problems that periodically crop up.
Nate, I'm sure I've said this before, but I'll say it again: you have an open invitation to attend HCH 2014 free of charge as thanks for your above-and-beyond-the-call-of-duty service. And I'm happy to give our other moderators a hefty discount as well.
|
tookatooka
3341 posts
Jun 15, 2013
11:50 AM
|
Yeah! Nate does an excellent job. Three cheers for Nate. Hip hip.......... Thanks Nate.
|
nacoran
6869 posts
Jun 15, 2013
6:25 PM
|
:) I'm hoping to get my brain around traveling in time for HCH. My OCD gets in the way sometimes but I'm working on it.
dmitrysbor, they did say that if we could find a block of IP addresses that were safe, less spam prone, they might be able to unlock a batch. I know privacy can be a big concern (we are learning some crazy stuff about invasion of privacy in the news lately, but I'm not going to touch that topic with a ten foot pole, at least until I finish my 'My girl left me and the NSA knew before I did blues'.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
