Grey Owl
20 posts
Mar 27, 2013
12:40 PM
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Ever been in that situation where you’re playing live or listening to a song and trying to work out what bloody harp to use – I have :) BTW Experienced players will find this a doddle.
What I’m about to say is not new but I’m having a go here at giving a practical, fun demonstration of a technique which I am just beginning to use after 48 years of playing!!.
I have recorded three segments of songs (not me playing) and after each song I have placed a sound file with a tone of the song key.
The idea is to listen to a song and try and hum a single note which seems to blend well no matter where the melody of the song is going (you can check the note your humming against the tone provided below each song). Once you have that note in your head find out what it is on a keyboard, guitar, or on a C harp or chromatic tuner in fact anything which will give you the name of the note.
When you have established the song key in this fashion refer to the circle of fifth’s diagram.
Say the note was C, look at the outer circle on the circle of fifths and find C take one step anti-clockwise to arrive at F and that will be the harp you use in 2nd or cross position, take another step anti-clockwise and arrive at Bb which will be the harp you use in 3rd position, keep going round one step at a time to find out what harp to use in 4th,5th,6th,7th,8th,9th, 10th,11th and 12th. For most of us 2nd position will do just fine. There again if your note was E, one step anti-clockwise would mean you would use an A harp in 2nd position or a D in third position etc.,
I am absolutely useless at musical theory but this basic method has helped me to home in on the appropriate harp to use. Of course if you know the key the band is playing in then you can simply refer to or memorise the circle of fifth’s to find the harp to use. Anyway I hope it's helpful.
What is the key and what harp would you use in 2nd position on the following?
First song
Song key tone
Second song
Song key tone
Third song
Song key tone
Circle of Fifth’s
I’ll post the answers and the songs in a while.
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Last Edited by Grey Owl on Mar 27, 2013 12:47 PM
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timeistight
1162 posts
Mar 27, 2013
2:13 PM
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"What is the key and what harp would you use in 2nd position on the following?"
First song: F, Bb harp in 2nd
Second song: G minor, C harp in 2nd (or F in 3rd)
Third song: A minor, D harp in 2nd (or G in 3rd)
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Playing music... it's a privilege.
Kim Wilson
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Aussiesucker
1271 posts
Mar 27, 2013
7:41 PM
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I agree with timestight on the keys.
I find my hearing pretty good & learn almost everything by ear. Generally I don't sweat over which key as I build my own tracks to suit whatever key I want & which is often dictated to by my vocal range.
I also figure out tunes by noodling and swapping harps & positions. Providing I can sing the lyrics in my head I can usually get there.
I use the following chart instead of the circle of 5ths:- http://www.angelfire.com/tx/myquill/
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HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
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nacoran
6618 posts
Mar 27, 2013
8:41 PM
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I made up a little mnemonic, counterclockwise.
Baby Elephants And Donkeys Go (flats)
Baby Elephants And Donkeys Go
Circle of Fifths (naturals)
I also find that although it's 'easier' to keep my harmonicas ordered alphabetically/ascending pitch, that if I'm sitting down to actually key a bunch of songs it's useful to arrange your harps by the circle. If you pick up a harp and it sounds terrible, jump a few places. If it sounds close, but not quite right, just take a step until you find it.
Of course, there is software you can use to find the key of a song pretty reliably. I used to use a plug-in for Windows Media Player (and then edit the metadata so the song had that information from then on) but the plug in doesn't work with newer versions. A lot of MC software has key finding software. There is also a little app I've seen for your smart phone that lets you tap a beat on the screen and it will figure out the BPM and time signature for you. Knowing the beats per minute is really useful if you are doing recording and want to make a quick click track before you lay down any tracks.
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Nate
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Greg Heumann
2079 posts
Mar 28, 2013
2:23 PM
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I learned this method from David Barrett. He calls it "using the C harmonica as a pitch pipe."
You have to learn to actively hear the actual root note - I agree that humming it is a very good way to find it.
You must be able to then find that note within the 1st 4 holes of your C harp.
You must memorize what the notes on the 1st 4 holes on a C harp ARE.
Like anything else it might not come super easy at first - but you can get really good at it. Takes me no more than 5-8 seconds to find which harp I want to play with the current tune.
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/Greg
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nacoran
6623 posts
Mar 28, 2013
3:20 PM
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Greg, or, you could use a pitch pipe! They are labeled and you don't need any bends! I have one around that my mom gave to me; she used to use it back in her choral days, but I took it apart to clean it and can't seem to get it to fit back together!
Another free reed instrument. :)
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Nate
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Grey Owl
21 posts
Mar 28, 2013
4:29 PM
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@Greg Yes I'd wish I'd learnt this earlier. It is easier than I expected it to be and it's a tad quicker than rifling through 12 harps!
Nate :)
Bonus marks on offer for the song titles:)
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mr_so&so
672 posts
May 08, 2013
11:24 AM
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Dredging this thread back up, 'cause I just came across a YT vid and a web site that you guys might want to check out: How to Find the Key of A Song By Ear.
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mr_so&so
784 posts
Mar 02, 2014
3:31 PM
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So as not to hijack a current thread on a related topic, the "C harp as pitch pipe" method does work for all keys in the first four holes without using overblows, except for Eb, which is +4*. Or you could use +8' (8 blow bend) for the Eb.
And you also have to bend to pitch well for F (2'' or use 5), Gb (2' or +9'), Ab (3''' or 6'), A (3'' or use 6), Bb (3').
For many common blues song keys, however, the C harp method is fine.
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Last Edited by mr_so&so on Mar 02, 2014 3:47 PM
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jnorem
65 posts
Mar 02, 2014
3:50 PM
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I get the pitch in my head and play a C on my chromatic. Then I know whereabouts to locate that pitch, and Bob's your uncle. Takes about 10 seconds.
So, using that method I get F for 1, using what sounds like a high-tuned Bb harp playing cross-harp.
For 2 I land on G, what sounds to me like G minor, so I'd use an Eb harp playing in 5th position.
For 3 I get A, really A minor, so I'd go with an F harp playing 5th position.
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Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Mar 02, 2014 4:07 PM
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mr_so&so
785 posts
Mar 02, 2014
3:55 PM
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For completeness, finding the song key only tells you what harp key to use in first position. For second position, find the song key on the circle of fifths then move one position counter-clockwise to find your harp key. For third position, move two places counter-clockwise from the song key, and so on for fourth, fifth, etc. positions.
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groyster1
2556 posts
Mar 02, 2014
4:20 PM
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circle of 5ths diagram....whover invented it...deserves the Pulitzer prize
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Littoral
1045 posts
Mar 02, 2014
6:16 PM
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I really should use the C-harp pitch pipe method but 75% of the time I'm right if I trust myself by ear. If I'm wrong it's most always within a 5th and the next harp I choose.
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