I'm trying to figure out a practical and efficient way to learn theory- outside the realm of 12 bar blues, or rock n roll theory, basically, I'm learning, or trying to learn jazz standards with multiple changes and more complex chords. Since, the notes change harmonica to harmonica should I learn the scale degrees and how they relate to the position you're playing in? is 12th position the most practical position to play jazz in? Did you learn arpeggios in different positions? The problem with arpeggios it seems is the missing notes if you can not produce the overblows in the middle octave. I know jazzier turn arounds (1-6-2-5) and variations of that. I guess what I am asking for the guys who have ventured into jazz, how did you go about? This isn't just a question for jazz players, the same principles apply to blues and rock n roll and I'd love to gather more insight on how a more experience player approaches chord theory and improvisation.
Just learn to spell the chords of whatever song you're playing, and to play the arpeggios of those chords on whatever harp you're playing the song on. There aren't that many missing notes, and most of them you can get around with octave substitutions.
Really, as long as you're aware of what the chord tones are while you're improvising you'll be doing great. ----------
Great rock and roll should hurt, and it should change your life, not necessarily for the better. David St. Hubbins
I haven't played jazz, but just communicating with other musicians, knowing the scale degrees is really useful. As for theory in general, I took two weeks of piano class as a freshman in college back in mumblemumblemumblemumble before a preexisting case of tendinitis in the wrists flared up and ended my piano career. Just that brief getting familiar with the piano really helped me later on as I was learning theory though. The harmonica isn't a great instrument for visualizing theory. The piano seems to be best for that. It's hard to visualize the difference, for instance, between a major or minor chord, but give me 2 minutes on a piano and I can explain major, minor, augmented and diminished chords, and the difference between a major chord and a major scale.
Not what you are asking but I figure it's relevant to the topic at large, Jamey Aebersold offers a free book called The Jazz Handbook. It's a wonderful place to begin if you are starting from scratch (like me).
As far as missing notes on the harmonica, have you ever considered half-valving? It requires work to master but overall it may be more easily attainable by many people who are looking for chromaticism on a Richter diatonic harp than overbending.
Ha! By coincidence, the spam prevention code I have to enter to post this starts with "PT"... ----------
Last Edited by on Jan 15, 2013 2:58 AM
To take the angst out of those that approach it, the truth is that you all have a vast knowledge of music theory already inside your brain. This comes from a lifetime of having music fed into your ears everywhere you go your whole life .. elevators, grocery stores, movie and tv, radio, records, 8 tracks, cassettes, CD's and mp3's.
It's all music done properly.
So, don't approach it like you have to learn a mountain of new stuff. All you have to do is start to put a label or word definition to what you already know.
In 30 years of jazz education, the best resource I've found for what you are looking for is Mark Levine's books.
http://www.shermusic.com/new/1883217040.shtml
If you have access to a keyboard, I actually like his Jazz Piano Book best.
Yes, learning the scale degrees is a great approach.
There is no best position on diatonic in which to play jazz. Each position has its strengths and weaknesses. Also, each tune and its chord changes will determine which position you may wish to use. ---------- The Iceman
@The Iceman -- I agree with you on this completely. I do agree for learning theory, learning on a keyboard instrument has some very distinct advantages because of the visual aspect with a guitar as the next option, but keyboard instruments, hands down. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I'd start with getting to know Major and Minor scales (Keys) Then I'd move onto basic chord construction of the four tonalities. Next, I'd go for the extensions and you could also do inversions here too. Lastly, I'd have a bash at Chord Melody which would tie everything together.
@Iceman: thanks for the link to the those Mark Levine books. They look great! FYI, I discovered that they are also available as e-books for Kindle from Amazon for half the price of the print books. Very cool! There is enough there to keep a person busy for a LONG time...
FYI, I've found this website to be very helpful (http://mugglinworks.com/chordmaps/), as well as Dave Barret's "Improvising Blues Harmonica" (http://www.amazon.com/Mel-presents-Improvising-Blues-Harmonica/dp/0786673214). Both have helped improve my current understanding of chord theory immensely. ----------
There's a good freebie site for learning theory at your own pace and that's this here:
http://www.musictheory.net ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I totally missed this thread and have to brush up on some not-so-diatonic changes. I run into the same issue. If you tell me I IV V I can play over the changes, but if you spell out a progression that isn't relative to C or G, something like Em A Bb means nothing to me.
I know my basic arppeggios and positions well enough that I can usually figure it out pretty quick assuming I know where the notes are on the harmoncia. ---------- Custom Harmonicas
That's an odd looking progression, but not that hard to play. E minor is E, G, B; A major is A, C#, E; Bb major is Bb, D, F.
On a C harp, E minor is 2 blow, 2 draw, 3 draw; A major is 3 draw whole-step bend, 4 draw half-step bend, 5 blow; Bb major is 3 draw half-step bend, 4 draw, 5 draw. ----------
There's a lot of hubbub about this really loud, horrible-sounding, what-they're-trying-to-call blues. And people make a big stir, and sometimes it sells but, eventually it fades away because there's no meat.
All the progressions I dealt with yesterday were odd, lol. There were a lot of half step ramp ups and stuff too. Very challenging, but very fun. I used what I could remember to fudge some power chords, but want to experiment more. I owe it to myself to be able to at least recognize triads...and should probably learn to name all the notes of a richter harp in any key. ---------- Custom Harmonicas
I haven't memorized the layout of all twelve harps, but I know all my major scales so I can figure out where I'm at pretty quickly.
That, being able to spell chords, and knowing the keyboard and guitar/bass fretboard helps a lot. ----------
There's a lot of hubbub about this really loud, horrible-sounding, what-they're-trying-to-call blues. And people make a big stir, and sometimes it sells but, eventually it fades away because there's no meat.
One thing I would do would be buy a chromatic harp. I recommend a Hohner Super Chromonica Model #270. The price is around $165.
That way you can play all the chord tones. By learning it on chrome, it will be so much easier to learn it on diatonic, imo.
Then I would set up a band -in-a-box type program (Again around $165) to play a very basic progression in the key of C:
C C F F C C G G C C F F C G C G
And repeat for 40 verses. You do not have to play all 40, it just makes it easier not to keep hitting play all the time. For each chord, play a major arpeggio as 1 3 5 3. For example, C would be C E G E. That way, each downbeat gets a chord tone.
Then 3 5 1 5, example E G C G
Then 5 1 3 1, example G C E G
Do that in all 12 keys smoothly.
Then change the chords to all minors. Repeat with minor arpeggios: C Eb G Eb.
Do that in all 12 keys smoothly.
As this is going on, make a decision to learn all your overblows. Set up your harps or get someone to do it for you, get instruction if necessary and learn all your overblows. Then repeat the entire procedure, except do it in all 3 octaves on the diatonic, because the layout is different in all 3 octaves.
The best thing you can do to learn overblows is make the decision to learn them The rest is just hard work.
Any student who sticks with me for 3 years will go through this process. Required reading. If you know all your major and minors arps, the other arps are just simple extensions.
Last Edited by on Jan 16, 2013 4:24 PM
