Shredder
20 posts
Oct 21, 2009
6:55 AM
|
Any of you out there have this issue?
I play with 2 bands and played several club gigs. My rock/ Blues band members have been around for a while with diffrent bands.When we play out I've had many people come up and shake my hand and say,"your the best harp player I've ever heard" even my band members comment on how good they think I play. My problem is I don't think I'm that good. Sure I feel confident but after surfing the Y/T and listening to many harp players and some on this site I get depressed with my playing but I keep on working at getting better.
Maybe I need to see a doctor!
Any one else feel this way?
Mike
|
toddlgreene
56 posts
Oct 21, 2009
7:19 AM
|
one thing to remember, unless you are one of the few 'Golden Children' whose names need not be mentioned, is that no matter how good you are, someone is probably better, and that goes for any instrument and vocals. But, chances are your audience isn't comprised of harmonica players, and they aren't brainwashed like we are thinking that'Jason(or harp master of your choice) does this, and I can't, so I suck'...You are pleasing someone's ear-so graciously accept the compliments and feel good knowing you probably made someone's day. I know I seldom like my playing or singing, and get rave reviews from everyone else-we are our own worst critics.
----------
Crescent City Harmonica Club
www.myspace.com/harpboytodd
www.myspace.com/crescentcityharmonicaclub
www.myspace.com/am540
|
Preston
537 posts
Oct 21, 2009
7:22 AM
|
Thinking you aren't that great, but getting praise for your playing is actually a good way of staying encouraged, but not getting a big head at the same time.
|
toddlgreene
57 posts
Oct 21, 2009
7:27 AM
|
Right on, Preston...we all know a player or two on some instrument that thinks they can do no wrong...this should serve as a benchmark of what to NOT let ourselves become when the praise is always laid on thick and/or we become very pleased with what's coming out of our harps. Remaining humble is always a good attitude, even if you are really good enough to be an annoying, cocky primadonna :-)
----------
Crescent City Harmonica Club
www.myspace.com/harpboytodd
www.myspace.com/crescentcityharmonicaclub
www.myspace.com/am540
|
tookatooka
673 posts
Oct 21, 2009
7:36 AM
|
@Shredder@ It's always good to be discontent with your own abilities because it makes you try even harder. As has been said before, you will always find someone who sounds a bit better but don't forget the people who you are playing to probably hasn't heard of them. When I hear Brendan Powers play, I feel it's pointless to carry on but after a little while I get the urge to improve myself because it gives me so much pleasure.
----------
Last Edited by on Oct 21, 2009 7:37 AM
|
Ant138
170 posts
Oct 21, 2009
7:40 AM
|
I'm the same, i think i suck alot of the time but get really good feedback when i post a vid on the Harpfriends channel on youtube or if i've done an open mic night(which i've only done 2 of).
I guess everyone feels like that especially when you cant see any improvement yourself or you can't get that lick you've been practicing for what seems like years. But i think that's what keeps us all going, striving to be better player but it sounds to me like like your playing this tiny instrument to its fullest, giging,playing with 2 bands. Thats pretty impresive stuff..
----------
|
congaron
191 posts
Oct 21, 2009
8:11 AM
|
When I hear one of those guys I have two choices..give up or try harder. Try harder always wins. I will pick out something they do and try to learn it. It helps and you will be surprised what you can learn to add in here and there. Don't forget how long most of these guys have been at it and how over the top dedicated they are to the instrument itself. Unless you have that level of experience AND interest, why worry about how good they are?
Last Edited by on Oct 22, 2009 7:26 AM
|
phogi
97 posts
Oct 21, 2009
8:41 AM
|
No, Shredder, you are not the only one. That same problem plagued me (on piano) all through college, and after. The bottom line was that I didn't like the way I sounded. I could not resolve this til much later. It basically took a year long break, and a new approach. I tried the 'try harder' method, and that only works if you were not trying hard in the first place.
I was alredy practicing 4+ hours each day, and 8+ on weekends. Trying hard was not the problem. It was bad enough I thought about giving up on playing, and on bad moments, life itself. I thought "if I'm working as hard as I can and it's still bad, what does that say about me?" I especially felt that way when some of my peers were tapped the the magic wand that took them to great oppertunities and (semi)fame, while I was not. I came to hate playing, so I removed myself from the competitive classical environment. Instead, I focused on my teaching, and on learning new instruments. When I decided to take it back up again, I was amazed at how good I sounded to my own ears (and others as well). I stopped playing other people's music and created my own, and really worked on improvisation. While I'm more focused on the harp right now, I'm enjoying piano like never before, and REALLY enjoying playing the harp. Now, when I listen to myself and don't like it, I think "what did I do that I don't like?" rather than "What is wrong with me that I sound like this?"
Also, I've learned to use recording as a practice tool almost every time I practice. I found that what feels right while playing and what sounds right can be two different things.
|
Shredder
21 posts
Oct 21, 2009
10:10 AM
|
Phogi, I think we are on the same page. I stopped playing several times in the last 20 years or so but, I always manage to come back to it. Each time like you say it's a little better. Iv'e played Piano and Guitar with limited success but the harp is what I was ment do apparently.
Recording I agree is a great tool but it can make you want to throw up some times, but really it brings you back to reality and makes you improve.
Like was said in this subject lines above, if you can make some one smile and hopefully make their day a little better it's worth the effort. Also getting the big head , Hell that won't ever happen because like was said , no matter how good you think you are there is always some one out there that will be better no matter what you do, and you can take that to the bank.
Thanks' guy's for the input!
Mike
|
walterharp
92 posts
Oct 21, 2009
10:10 AM
|
same here, not many harp players around here, i am probably the best in town and nearby towns too, but given all the fantastic players out there on utube etc, i know how much better is possible. it is not so much the guys that have been playing pro for a decade or two, and who have paid their dues woodshed wise..but those guys who have only been playing for a few years and can already tear it up better than me, that kind of depresses me. still, the other option is not playing and that would be worse :-)
|
ricanefan
27 posts
Oct 21, 2009
10:14 AM
|
Those os us who don't think we "suck" in some way have no idea of where they can improve.
That others don't agree with you tells me you're doing something right...
|
the frozen canuck
61 posts
Oct 21, 2009
10:28 AM
|
i`m on your side Shredder,i aswell play with a band or 2 ,plug record w/song wrighter ,i don`t think i play so shit hot but always get a you hit it out of the park otnight,frm listeners and band members.
as long as it`s still fun ,i`ll continue on
|
mickil
576 posts
Oct 21, 2009
12:36 PM
|
Same with me. But, nowadays, I try to override the frustration; in the past, that killed it for me. Now, we've got all the info we need to get better. It's just practice and time - without the frustration, of course.
----------
YouTube SlimHarpMick
|
nacoran
265 posts
Oct 21, 2009
2:25 PM
|
I deliberately didn't play with anyone around for a long time. I was worried I'd develop exactly the problem you are talking about. I focused on just enjoying playing for playing sake. I've played a handful of open mics and recorded on a couple tracks with friends, but I focus on the moment, on enjoying what I'm playing instead of the feedback I get. That's a lesson I learned the hard way with other things in my life.
Fame and fortune, the Jedi harpist craves not these things. The force is strong in the music.
|
Oisin
361 posts
Oct 21, 2009
2:45 PM
|
At the jam I go to they record and post all of the songs played at the jam that night and you can download them. I used to then spend the next month listening to the songs I played on over and over again, and being very hard on myself in critising what I'd played...even though everyone else thought I sounded great.
I read an interview with Kim Wilson where he said that the best praise he had was on a night where he'd played really bad and on another night where he'd given it 110% he had nothing ....so it's not just us mere mortals who suffer from this.
I think you've got the same feeling as all of the rest of us Shredder and the day you don't feel like that is the day you should stop playing cos we're always learning and improving. If you're thinking that you have reached Harmonica Nirvana and you've nothing more to learn then the only thing you've probably succeded in is in completely inserting your head up your ass.
Self critism is a good thing if used correctly but don't go beating yourself up too much. We have other MBH members who can do that for you!!
Oisin
|
eharp
333 posts
Oct 21, 2009
3:10 PM
|
beat yourself up! quit, cause you are right. you aint very good!
(one more down. if this strategy works i will be the world's best harp player in about 2,000,000 more posts!)
|
eharp
334 posts
Oct 21, 2009
3:11 PM
|
oh, no!! i just remembered those who have yet to start playing!!
|
jbone
173 posts
Oct 21, 2009
10:10 PM
|
one thing i have had to come to terms with: if my audience likes what i'm doing, i need to be gracious and thank them. i also need to keep my own counsel about mistakes i make and what i think of my own playing sometimes. after all, i make mistakes out live, that's part of what playing live is about. most people don't notice if you just keep going in the right key and stay on time.
we are our own worst critics if our mindset is right. i always have an editor who is slashing parts i'm doing. next time i try something a bit tighter, or a different way, whatever. it's also part of how we learn.
i think the bottom line for me has been, it seldom comes out just how i want it to, but it comes out good or acceptable or sometimes way above my expectations. but it rarely comes out how i plan or imagine it will or should. i just have to do what i know and try to improve as i go along. the results have not gotten me any rolls royces but they haven't ever gotten me fired either.
|
sopwithcamels266
218 posts
Oct 23, 2009
11:33 AM
|
shredder:Let me tell you how it is.
Iv'e been involved in modern jazz and blues for too many years. Sax player but do play blues harp and am OK.
First off when you play modern jazz 90% of the audience haven't a clue whether you can play great or not.Even some of your own bands don't know some times right. That is point 1.
2. When it comes to blues harp,not talking sax now
it is amazing how a small fraction of blues wailing can be very very effective and an attraction over everything else going on.(You can be doing something very very simple)
Particularly if the band you are playing with isn't too hot.
The thing is you set your own standards right.
Heres a story to illustrate my point but in this case it was on sax.
last week I was booked to play a gig with an alto sax and trumpet player modern jazz.
I get to the gig the trmnpet player is a real old boy bebop trumpeter, the alto player who is the main man of the band isn't really anything.But plays with all the big names doing free form pop funk everything.)
This guy has been educated by the best their is payed for himself private. (He's a rich guy)
First time i'd played with him. It was awful.
Not only did he not know to get the best out of the band members correctly but couldn't swing to save his life.
When we switch off the bop onto groove phrasing was non exsistant, and no band intereaction.
Audience went mad thought it was good.
End of the gig though it's myself the trumpet player and piano player,that folk come to and ask where you playing locally etc.
They don't approach him, strange.
It's obvious when you hear others play how his time is all other the place.No one tells hom cause he is the rich guy and has influence.
This same character tours the world in some of the free jazz groups.
Now if your a painter for example how can you paint full abstract before you have learnt to life draw correctly first.
This is crucial so that the abstaction has meaning.
So basically be true to yourself be honest. That way even if your just starting out as a player what you lay down will be great and have meaning.
Last Edited by on Oct 23, 2009 11:38 AM
|
Bluzdude46
236 posts
Oct 23, 2009
12:45 PM
|
I have the same problem of listening to other harp players and knowing they are way ahead of me, yet I have no one telling me I sound great so I have come to the conclusion that I suck!!
|
RyanMortos
398 posts
Oct 23, 2009
1:21 PM
|
We're looking at the top players of all time internationally & shooting to get there. Makes sense right?
Well what about the fifty worst recorded harmonica artists? You know, the ones you never or hardly heard of that toot on 2 draws and maybe at their best throw in 3 draw bends and wail on the 4 for good measure? Yeah, I hear stuff like that on obscure blues tracks that arent harmonica focused.
Once you stop pushing yourself you stop getting better. No harm in realizing you're not what you want to be just yet & using that to fuel your drive for practice.
----------
~Ryan
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
|
bluzlvr
254 posts
Oct 23, 2009
1:46 PM
|
I think it's only natural for musicians to beat themselves up from time to time.
You have to remember that doing music is a physical as well as mental exercise.
There are going to be some days where you just don't have it, others when it seems like you can do no wrong.
Like everybody's saying: practice, practice, practice. It really does pay off. Muscle memory is your friend!
|
asilve3
29 posts
Oct 23, 2009
5:07 PM
|
post some clips of your playing so we can really decide if self deprecation is warranted.
|
Violin Cat
83 posts
Oct 24, 2009
10:46 AM
|
Hey Shredder:
First off: Anybody who is serious about playing harmonica needs to see a doctor. All kidding aside, I know exactly what your talking about and it is this madness that has actually gotten you to the point where people dig what your doing. It will probably never end either no matter how many positive or negative reviews and accolades you receive. It's good to be hard on yourself. On the other hand confidence and the magical use of ego within sports and the arts can be a powerful tool for creation, inspiration and selling your music from stage, so you want to keep that self hatred in check and release your inner rock star. Here's some of my experience with the psychology and reality of self delusion and the subjective, probably reality :
- Every time I think I played my absolute best I scan youtube for the fan vids so I can see my awesomeness... The result without fail is always lack luster. I rate myself usually upon Technical scale, timbre and tone etc. If I'm hitting all the notes accurately and in tune and pulling of technically difficult licks and phrases ideas and I like my tone/sound etc, I'm quick to think "I had a good/great gig". When I review the vids/audio of these nights I always find that I was playing self indulgently, not really with the band, and generally more or less being ruled by my head over my heart. Thats ok nights like that are fun, but my point is the playing wasn't as great as I thought it was.
-There are other nights, when I feel the tone sucks, the room sounds like Owl poop, and my playing is sloppy and stuck in a rut. Often when I review these videos I find the musicality of what I was doing to be quite good, focussed, present, and inspired! makes no sense... Maybe it does: A great Jazz Drummer told me one night after I described some feelings identical to your post:
" You are never as good as you think you are, and you are never as bad as you think you are"- John Yarling
Hope that helps
Jason
|
Violin Cat
84 posts
Oct 24, 2009
10:54 AM
|
Also in regard to other musicians on you tube, here and else where: Give up now! Howards got us all beat! He is the saviour of our arts! He has reached the pinnacle of excellence and there will never be a better diatonic player technically. We are exonerated from all responsabilty and duty "To be the best" and free to pursue ART now!! And remember the next time some drunk says : "Hey your good man, but your NO (Insert famous harp player x here)" , Just say back: "Yeah, Well he ain't me either".
We all bring something to the table.
"Every man and every woman is a star"
-Liber AL Vel Legis
|
mickil
582 posts
Oct 24, 2009
11:37 AM
|
I'm not sure if I'm talking twaddle here, so someone please tell me if I am.
The thing with blues harp - not jazz - is that because it's essentially folk music, the standard of technical skill required to play it so that it's good enough for most stages is far less demanding than on many other instruments.
The comparisons I have in mind here are Liszt's piano etudes, Bach's sonatas and partitas for solo violin, or Rachmaniniv's 3rd piano concerto. That last piece, even its dedicatee couldn't play it; for decades, few people even tried. Similar thing with Beethoven's Hammerklavier and Grosse Fugue.
What I'm trying to say is that 'traditional' blues harp is probably within the reach of all or most of us, so long as we go about it in the right way.
I'm not talking about the stuff that you do Jason, the really fast stuff, just the more traditional old-fashioned stuff.
Am I making sense, harp peeps?
----------
YouTube SlimHarpMick
|
BillBailey
37 posts
Oct 24, 2009
11:41 AM
|
We are all insecure spirits having this human experience.
It makes me think we should never judge 'art'--just enjoy it. Keep creating---it's the rent we pay for our existence.
|
mickil
583 posts
Oct 24, 2009
11:56 AM
|
Bill,
'It makes me think we should never judge 'art'--just enjoy it.'
I suppose that is more or less what folk music is really: fiddlers in old Irish pubs; harp players in 30s juke joints; African tribal music.
In one of my lectures at college years ago the prof was saying how the idea of the 'virtuoso' was a very Western concept. In traditional African music, pretty much everyone learns to play something, just like we all learn to wash up, well, most of us - ha ha !
----------
YouTube SlimHarpMick
|
BillBailey
38 posts
Oct 24, 2009
12:08 PM
|
'Harp peeps,' I love that, Mickil. Harp-throb, kills me, too.
It is a very western thing to judge art. We have elevated it to high art (no pun intended). Every year I nearly wretch at Academy Awards time---not to mention many other music award fetes.
Frankly, I have never met an enlightened musician that doesn't always think they can do better, fast---maybe even play with fresh breath.
Relax, my friend, don't be harsh with yourselves. Play, dance, sing, create.
|
mickil
585 posts
Oct 24, 2009
12:50 PM
|
You're lucky you just nearly wretch. I projectile vomit. Can't watch it any more.
----------
YouTube SlimHarpMick
|
RyanMortos
407 posts
Oct 25, 2009
10:40 AM
|
"The thing with blues harp...is...the standard of technical skill required to play it so that it's good enough for most stages is far less demanding than on many other instruments."
I'm agreeing with you here, mickil.
But why is that?
I think that's because people don't know better. They know examples of masters of other instruments. They know the difference from, say, someone strumming extremely basic guitar after 2 years of practice and Stevie Ray Vaughn/B.B. King.
The best that you can hope is that people may have heard of Blues Traveler but they don't associate that with blues. If Jason Ricci & NB's version of Mellow Down Easy swept the nation by storm, for example, & everyone heard it I think the standard of technical skill required to play blues harmonica for most stages would shift. I don't think there's anything technically easy about playing blues at that level of play.
I think that's what MBH is all about. I think that's what Chris means when he says it's up to all of us.
----------
~Ryan
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
|
mickil
588 posts
Oct 25, 2009
3:58 PM
|
Ryan,
I agree with you. I suppose that people like Howard Levy and Jason Ricci are a bit like the Liszt and Chopin of their day, be it on the diatonic harp.
The truth is that very few of us can hope to reach those dizzying heights of virtuosity. On the other hand, despite the 'Modern Blues Harmonica' of the title of this forum, many of of us - well, me for one - would be happy just to master the 'Traditional Blues Harmonica' stuff.
Thank goodness that's more or less a realistic goal.
----------
YouTube SlimHarpMick
|
Aussiesucker
404 posts
Oct 25, 2009
4:38 PM
|
Give up comparing yourself with others. It will never work in your favour ie there will always be others who are better or not as good as you. Seek out others views for counsel, guidance, instruction, feedback and help. Ignore all those that put you down.
The only comparison you need make is with your own progression ie are you better than you were a year ago?
|
Jim Rumbaugh
97 posts
Oct 25, 2009
6:02 PM
|
If my playing was an automobile in blues music, I would probably be a Ford. Good enough to get to the end of the ride with only few complaints. Yes, there are some Cadilacs and sports cars out there, but we all do the same thing, we take a musical ride from the begining to the end. Some of us do it with a little more style. Just try to not be a clunker with a flat tire or run out of gas on the trip.
|
Shredder
23 posts
Oct 25, 2009
8:02 PM
|
Wow, this thread has really touched quite a few and I'm glad. I hope the replys will be taken into account by others that have questions about their abilitly, it has helped me knowing I'm not the only one. Thanks to Jason for his reply and I can relate to his comments and all the others that replyed to.
I play in a rock/Blues band but I also play in a Country gospel band"Cowboy church of Orange County",from one extream to the other LOL. Well we had 500 show up today. I had one person come up after the service and shake my hand. He said I played amazing grace so beautifully that it put a tear in his eye.WOW,that's what I want to do when I play. Touch some ones heart and make them feel good inside. I didn't think the rendition was any better than the times before, actually I thought my 6 draw had gone a little flat but it touched some one and that's all I ask for.I had several more compliments but that one person really touched me.
Thanks' to all.
P.S. My rock band started a demo last week, maybe I will be able to post a cut from it in the future.
Mike
|
TexasJeff
3 posts
Oct 29, 2009
7:02 PM
|
If there was no one better than you how would you learn? A few are arrogant pricks about their talent, but more often than not that isn't the case.
Learn what you can and keep moving ahead.
|
barbequebob
10 posts
Oct 30, 2009
10:05 AM
|
One thing too many players do is not know when it's time to stop trying to sound like your heroes and sound more like yourself, which obviously, is easier said than done, but it is important.
Virtuosity is only one part of being a musician and technical virtuosity doens't always equal the ability to play expressively.
I see so many people who gotta buy their hero's gear thinking it will make them sound good and if they don't sound like their hero, it's a big let down, but too many players never get over that and this is something that sounds like what's happening here.
It's ultimately more important that what you do properly fits within the context of what you're doing than thinking about why you don't sound like this or that. That alone really makes things sound more musical than trying to throw the entire kitchen sink at something even though it sounds like the two of you can't seem to meet somewhere at all.
I've seen great players who I've admired over the years absolutely lay a really bad egg because what they were doing didn't properly fit within the context of what was going on around them, especially when they were out of their comfort zone, so trust me, you're far from alone.
No matter how good one gets, there is ALWAYS room for improvement and learning is a part of life and the minute you stop learning anything, you basically become musically senile.
We are all our own worst critic and sometimes need to take a step back. If you didn'tscrew up along the way, you didn't learn anything because without that screw up, how do you learn from that?
I've done gigs where I thought I played like crap and the audience loved it as well as when I thought I played great and it didn't always come across. It's part of life as a musician.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbqaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
|
