loscott
30 posts
Dec 18, 2012
4:22 PM
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Somebody I know wants to get into harp but doesn't want to spend a lot of money right off the bat-- 15 to 20 bucks for a C harp, I think. Any suggestions?
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nacoran
6297 posts
Dec 18, 2012
4:28 PM
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Hohner Big Rivers are supposed to be playable, or a Suzuki Folkmaster. I haven't played either, but they are what comes to mind.
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Nate
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daijoubu
18 posts
Dec 18, 2012
4:18 PM
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My son has a Hohner Blues Bender. Not bad to start with and Amazon lists it for $18. I started with a Suzuki Harpmaster. At $28 Canadian it's a little out of your budget, but most of the good harps are in the $30 range.
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Rob
Six Eight Time
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dougharps
305 posts
Dec 18, 2012
4:29 PM
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I haven't bought one recently, but I still have a few Suzuki Folkmasters that play pretty well and cost around $15. I haven't tried to set up for overblow, but they bend easily.
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Doug S.
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Joe_L
2244 posts
Dec 18, 2012
4:49 PM
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As TNFrank used to say, "a $15 harmonica is good enough for anyone!"
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DanP
260 posts
Dec 18, 2012
4:59 PM
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The Huang Silvertone Deluxe and the Suzuki Folkmaster are Ok for low priced harps. But a new player would be better off spending $30 to $50 on a good harp in the key of C in my opinion.
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arzajac
921 posts
Dec 18, 2012
5:03 PM
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I have a hypothesis.
It would be interesting to study 100 non-harp-playing people and give half a $15 dollar harp - like the ones mentioned here, and give the other half a $35 dollar harp like a SP20 and then see a year later how many in each group are still playing harp.
I doubt the results would show zero in the $15 dollar group and likewise I doubt the SP20 group would be at 100 per cent, but I do think there would be a difference between the two groups and the better harp would lead to more success.
Maybe some harp teachers can chime in with some of their experience. I know some teachers who will flat out refuse to give you a lesson if you don't show up with a proper harp.
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Last Edited by on Dec 19, 2012 5:02 AM
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Jehosaphat
381 posts
Dec 18, 2012
5:51 PM
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Does she drink coffee? The difference between a decent harp and ,well, one not so decent is about two coffees.
But in the end the folkmaster can be a reasonable harp but like most cheap harps it can be a crapshoot as to whether or not it is any good.
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didjcripey
436 posts
Dec 18, 2012
6:04 PM
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Hohner International Silver Stars are about twelve bucks each here, and are quite OK for practice, not a bad little harp, especially for the price
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Lucky Lester
Last Edited by on Dec 18, 2012 6:05 PM
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Hobostubs Ashlock
1981 posts
Dec 18, 2012
6:27 PM
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I like Big Rivers,And the hohner blue midnight harp and Haung star perfomer,for a lower costing harps
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Hobostubs
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nacoran
6298 posts
Dec 18, 2012
7:06 PM
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My first harp was a Blessing tremolo. It sat in a drawer. When I got in a band as a part time singer I got a Blues Harp. It tore my lips to shreds and I never got far enough along to get to the point where it was fun. It was a decade later that I finally got a set of Piedmonts (ugh, the taste!) and another harp (I think it was another Blues Harp).
I actually played the Piedmonts a lot. For me, the plastic comb made all the difference. I've had some Blues Bands that I've gapped that play pretty well. They don't overblow, and their tone isn't concert grade, but functionally, for learning, they were fine.
In the crazy cheap harp range you have the Blues Bands and their clones which just seem to be stamped with a different name and a box upgrade or downgrade, with their sharp corners where the stamping on the covers leaves that little gap and the awful tasting Piedmonts. The taste of the Piedmonts seems to wear off at the same rate as the gold lettering, leading me to believe that the two are related. The leakiness may actually be a blessing until someone learns breath control (or decides they like harp enough to keep replacing them if it's essential to their sound). If I was starting out again I'd want one good harp (Sp20 or L.O.) and a box of Piedmonts to try different keys with, and a bottle of Scope for the taste!
I still think a manufacturer should try a box of various tunings in cheap harps. (Harmonic Minor, Natural Minor, Major, Power Bender, a tremolo, a solo tuned and maybe one more (7 seems to be a good number) at or under the $50 mark would be fun for someone starting out. It might even be a way for one of the alternate tuning schemes to get some exposure. Of course, with a box of Piedmonts, you'll probably get a couple duds, and it would be more frustrating if you lost out on a whole tuning instead of just a key.
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GMaj7
163 posts
Dec 18, 2012
7:26 PM
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I think Tom at Blue Moon has some harps he is clearing out that are in that price range.
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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rbeetsme
982 posts
Dec 18, 2012
7:34 PM
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I have a friend who plays Big Rivers, working pro, killer player. He likes them because they are cheap. I picked one up in a trade with some other harps and gear. I like the size and feel of it. Not real responsive but plays well, I bet they are pretty durable too.
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bonedog569
759 posts
Dec 18, 2012
10:17 PM
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Huang Silvertone is a good started, or for a bit more -a Big Rive. the Suzuki folk and bluesmasters are also really nice harps - best of the lot but a little more $ I think.
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SuperBee
728 posts
Dec 18, 2012
10:33 PM
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Huang Silvertone Deluxe got me started. I heard the quality dropped though. Suzuki Folkmaster I also played early on. Low keys, A and G. I thought they were pretty good, but I gave them away because I didn't like changing size and shape, preferred to play just one type. But really, just get a sp20 and don't mess with that cheap stuff. Ultimately it's cheaper and more betterer.
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Gipsy
1 post
Dec 18, 2012
11:05 PM
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I'm with Arzajac on this. Peeps buy a cheap harp with a tutorial book and after a few pages bends are mentioned. Those with a better harp manage to shift the note, are encouraged, and press on. Those with a worse harp fail to shift the note, decide its not for them, and pack in. I'm not trying to define better or worse, as you can get well set up cheap harps, and poorly set up better harps.
I'm also certain that good players with good technique can bend anything, hence well respected players using cheaper ( possibly worse ) harps to great effect. I
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SmokeJS
15 posts
Dec 19, 2012
2:22 AM
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As a relative beginner I bought a Special 20, a Harpmaster and a Folkmaster. The Special 20 immediately felt like a Ferrari. The Harpmaster was close. The Folkmaster felt far less comfortable and was obviously not as much fun to play from my perspective.
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jiceblues
136 posts
Dec 19, 2012
3:30 AM
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I agree with ARJAZAC , a too cheap harp is not a good idea .I'd go for a SP20 .
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jbone
1137 posts
Dec 19, 2012
4:31 AM
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i still have a couple of sp20's around even though it's been years since i bought one. maybe a bit more costy but a great all-around started harp. big river is on my short list for starter harps as is the suzuki bluesmaster although i had to change covers on that one.
at a flea market recently i bought a marine band in G that plays pretty well. it was about $12 and all the notes worked.
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HawkeyeKane
1300 posts
Dec 19, 2012
6:47 AM
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To me, Folkmasters have gone downhill in recent years. They used to be Japanese made, and well constructed. But like a lot of other harps that have been outsourced to China, they're not as good anymore. The Folkmasters that I've bought have been tinny sounding, and choke out very easily. Almost no bending capabilities whatsoever. And they're somewhat fragile too.
A Big River would be my go-to for a more budget priced harp. They're usually a little more than 20 these days, but they're loud, have good tone, and last a good long while. A Huang Silvertone Deluxe would be my next choice. Somewhat leaky, but good tone, long life, and they can bend fairly well.
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Hawkeye Kane
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6SN7
217 posts
Dec 19, 2012
8:03 AM
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A cheap harp might be decent but it is still cheap.
A SP20 is what I would call a cheap harp. But you can do more with them.
They are perfect to lean to TB to and a butt load easier than the marine band.
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Rick Davis
1033 posts
Dec 19, 2012
9:11 AM
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My friend Dan Treanor is a working pro and a Hohner Endorsee. He plays Hohner Big River harps. They range from $16 to $25 on Musicians Friend.
BTW, He and his band Afrosippi will be heading to Memphis to compete in the IBC in February.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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dougharps
306 posts
Dec 19, 2012
11:13 AM
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@HawkeyeKane
Thanks for the update on Folkmaster quality. I haven't bought one in a long time, so your information is useful in making future recommendations.
@OP
In addition to the Folkmaster (which has reportedly gone down in quality) I have suggested the Big River as a lower cost harp for beginners that is a step above the bottom level junk harps. I have a pro guitar player singer/songwriter friend who uses Big Rivers in a rack and won't consider other harps. I have used them, but they seemed stiff to me.
For people who are serious enough to pay a little more for a decent instrument that they can continue to use over time, I usually recommend Special 20 as well as mentioning the Suzuki Bluesmaster or Harpmaster, Lee Oskar, Delta Frost, or Seydel Blues Session harmonicas.
Lee Oscar is pretty durable for beginners.
My preference of these harps (when I am not using higher end harps) is the Special 20.
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Doug S.
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spackle20
51 posts
Dec 19, 2012
12:00 PM
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I bought a Blues Bender and a Big River a while back and after some work they were both decent harps. I bought them to practice embossing, thinking I wasn't out much if I ruined them.
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akmarmot
14 posts
Dec 19, 2012
12:19 PM
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Many have advocated going straight for the good stuff on a first harp. I think that sooo many harps not too far above the "net-bag-attached-to-the-book-on-how-to-play-harp" quality are easy to bend right out of the box for not that much dough.
I had one Suzuki Harpmaster in C at one time and it was the poppiest little firecracker ever. Bent really easy and fun to play. I would recommend that as a "first harp". I gave my little 2 year old girl that blown out Suzuki after I had my way with it and she can bend notes just fine when she's rockin' out. I haven't tried yet with Grandma. I think those things go for around $25 on Amazon.
Since I just started dabbling in tweaking harps, I'll join the camp that advocates for a set of Special 20s or other decent harp though once a person gets their feet wet - although I know now they're not that perfect out of the box they've been consistently "good enough" to start jamming on right away every time. Easy on the lips.
Boo Hohner "Blues Harp" unless you like leaky harps that cut the bejesus out of your lips unless you sand them a little...
I also haven't seen the value in Lee Oskar for a beginner or an intermediate. I've had about 5 of them now and I have a mild dislike for all of them, and the only reason I've ever gotten any of them (after the first) was due to availability in a time of need. Maybe people who really tweak can make their sound good, but to me they're always extremely temperamental, leaky, and at the same time squeaky. Plus the spacing just seems different than my SP20s which is annoying.
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nacoran
6305 posts
Dec 19, 2012
1:18 PM
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KillerJoe, remember, $20 means different things to different people. I went through a stretch where I ate peanut butter and fluff every night. Once a week I'd splurge and buy a candybar. I was living in a roach infested $50 a week everything included hotel. If I shelled out $20 on something it was serious. And seriousness can change too. When I started playing I had no idea what an obsession it would become. And like I said, I had a Blues Harp that tore up my lips and a box of Piedmonts. I struggled at first to get bends, but the big breakthrough from me was listening, not playing. I heard Salty Holmes's talking harmonica and it just sort of clicked.
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akmarmot
18 posts
Dec 19, 2012
3:01 PM
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The other thing to think about is if dude gets a $25 harp he won't be as afraid to dink around with it than if he gets a much more expensive harp that is supposed to be awesome. If'n he's inclined of course.
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Martin
168 posts
Dec 19, 2012
5:11 PM
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@6SN7: "A cheap harp might be decent but it is still cheap. A SP20 is what I would call a cheap harp."
So then, what do you call harps that cost three times less than an S20? "Cheap-ooo"? "Chirpy-chirpy-cheap-cheap"? "Unmentionably-cheap"? "Don´t-effing-ask-for- that-you-moron-when-you-can-be-spending-good money-on-something-more-EXPENSIVE!"?
How helpful that is.
Obviously the OP was looking for recommendations for a cheap harp. It appears as if some people here find it inherently distasteful to ask for this, and the recommendations are accordingly. (It´s on the same line as when somebody said that Suzuki ought to -raise- the prize of the already extremely expensive and somewhat unsatisfactory SUB 30.)
I don´t believe Ioscott or his friend benefits from being taken to school and told that they shalt not seek such a thing for ´tis an abomination; nor that an ordinarily priced high end harp, like the S20, is in fact a "cheap" harp. That´s just stupid confusion.
I bought a Walther harmonica for 70 SEK (that´s about $10) several months back and it´s great. Can´t be overblown and all that, but that´s not in a beginners interest. It was not leaking, was in tune and has stayed in tune -- despite the fact that I´ve been giving it a really hard time.
Recommended. I´ll go for it again as a practice harp.
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florida-trader
215 posts
Dec 20, 2012
8:01 AM
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I’m a bit surprised that this thread has gone on this long and nobody has mentioned the option of buying a good used harp. You can find literally hundreds of used harps on eBay in the price range mentioned by the OP. I know that for some buying a used harp is not very enticing but we have no way of knowing whether or not that would be an acceptable alternative for the OP’s “Someone I know” . Obviously if that is the direction that was taken the harp would have to be properly cleaned before being played but there is an abundance of information available about harp cleaning since it has been a popular subject on this very forum. Plus there is no shortage of youtube videos on the subject. It might even be beneficial for a newby harp player to have a close look at the insides of his harp. I do think the trend of being a harmonica enthusiast is moving in the direction of not only learning how to play but also how to maintain and perhaps even tweak your own harps.
Finally, I would guess that there are probably 50 guys who hang out on this forum who provide some form of service working on harps – customization, repair, whatever (including myself). It is a safe bet that most have some harps laying around that they would be willing to let go for $20 or less - particularly if it means helping a guy catch the fever. I would take my chances on a used Marine Band, Special 20, Lee Oskar, Golden Melody, etc. etc. over a brand new harp that retails for less than $20 any day of the week.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Last Edited by on Dec 20, 2012 8:07 AM
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nacoran
6311 posts
Dec 20, 2012
1:06 PM
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KillerJoe, a $5 harp would have been a godsend that summer. I was laid up with heel spurs. I'd just quit my job canvasing door to door. I only got 3 channels on TV, had no phone and all my friends were out of town (it was summer break between semesters). Some people know they want to play harp. Some people are looking to see if it's for them. That second group may be buying a $20 harp, a $20 knitting kit, a $10 chess set and Programming for Dummies, trying to figure out what they are supposed to do with their lives. The important thing for me was a harp that didn't tear up my lips. The cheap metal cover harps chewed up my lips. The wooden combs (until I got to custom combs) chewed up my lips. The exposed reed plates chewed up my lips. The Piedmonts tasted bad but that wore off and they played alright after some gapping (all 7 of them, although only the D was anything special). I haven't played a Big River, but from what I've seen, the covers are better than the cheap covers.
I play mostly L.O.'s and Sp20's. I've tried more expensive harps, and if money wasn't a thing, I'd probably have a set of Seydels, but money is a thing most of the time. I actually though, do recommend getting one good harp early, probably an Sp20 for a nice rounded harp although personally I like L.O.'s, but at the budget end a Big River seems reasonable. I wouldn't recommend lower than that for a starting harp. I think there is value in getting some extra keys though. I think having a box of Piedmonts helped me learn the different embouchure needed for higher and lower harps faster, certainly faster than if I'd had to way until I could afford a full set of good harps.
And like others have mentioned, they asked for a price range. Without looking at their checkbook balance, I'll assume they have an idea what they can afford to spend.
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Nate
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Bart Leczycki
68 posts
Dec 20, 2012
3:13 PM
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Hi, I strongly recommand for my very beginner students: If you really want to play on harmonica, buy good, not cheap instrument. I think that price-level Harpmaster/Special 20 and higher is ok.
But if you want only "blow sometimes" without ambitions to learn fast and right way, so buy something cheap.
BTW prices increase in UE as well. I think the reason is "transport costs".
I see one phenomenon: now we could buy very cheap harps (3-5bucks), and very expensive models, like Seydel Noble, Suzuki Fabulous.
So we can find the best product for us :o)
"...always look on the bright side of life..."
Best regards
==============================
 www.bleczycki.com
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loscott
31 posts
Dec 22, 2012
8:43 AM
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Thank you all for your input. I passed the info along to my friend and he decided to go with the Big River, which was a little over his price range but not by too much. It seems like it's a decent enough harp.
I myself play Marine Bands, which now seem to cost about $38. Is that right or can I get a better deal? I haven't bought one in a while. I see that there's concurrent thread also on this topic. This thread has peaked my own interest in the Special 20. Is it worth checking out? How does it compare with the Marine Band? I like the wood comb, so I think I'll probably stick with that. What about the Hohner Blues Harp? I've also thought about splurging on a Crossover. Is it worth it? Now that my friend has his harp, I've decided to highjack this thread for my own purposes...
Last Edited by on Dec 22, 2012 8:44 AM
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timeistight
996 posts
Dec 22, 2012
9:13 AM
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"This thread has peaked my own interest in the Special 20. Is it worth checking out? How does it compare with the Marine Band?"
A Special 20 is like a Marine Band without the wood comb, exposed reedplates or vented covers.
"What about the Hohner Blues Harp?"
The Blues Harp used to be very much like a Marine Band but nowadays it's more like a Big River. In fact, all the parts are interchangeable.
"I've also thought about splurging on a Crossover. Is it worth it?"
Most of us love them. They are expensive though.
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They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art.
Charlie Parker
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florida-trader
217 posts
Dec 22, 2012
9:55 AM
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@ timeistight. The SP20 IS a Marine Band. It says so right on the top cover plate. It has the same reed plates as the Marine Band. I've never heard it put exactly this way but I'm sure Hohner developed the SP20 to counter the classic "problems" with the Marine Band - wood combs that warp, sharp corners that hurt your hands, assembled with nails to it is hard to disassemble. The SP20 has a plastic combs with rounded corners and is assembled with screws. It is a well built harp that is popular for good reason. The covers are different than the Marine Band which is an issue for some. The reed plates sit down inside the recessed comb so it creates a mouthpiece at the front of the harp. Again, some people love that feature. Some don't.
With regard to the Crossover, the only criticism I've ever heard has to do with to the compromise tuning. Some people like it. Some don't. But I have never read or heard a complaint regarding how well they play. Think customized Marine Band 1896. I have heard that there are several pro players who use OOTB Crossovers as their go-to harps vs. customs. I have a few and they are great harps. Another option, by the way, is the less expensive Marine Band Deluxe. From everything I have heard, is the same as the Crossover except for the tuning and the Crossover has a bamboo comb.
If we were going to start a thread about Crossovers, instead of the title of this thread -"cheap but decent harmonica", it would be "expensive but worth it harmonica".
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
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HarveyHarp
430 posts
Dec 22, 2012
10:18 AM
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Tom, Your definition of a Crossover as Customized Marine Band 1896, is subject to question. Once again it depends on your definition of customized. If you feel that customized means replacing the comb (in this case bamboo), opening up the back of the covers, and screwing it together rather than using nails, then your statement is correct. While I tend to agree with you somewhat, a good number of named "Customizers" use the term customize to include extensive reedwork, which the crossover does not have. It would be nice if we had some standard definitions of Harmonica terms so we could all be on the same page, but I am afraid that will not happen.
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HarveyHarp
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Thievin' Heathen
102 posts
Dec 22, 2012
10:45 AM
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I have started including a Huang onto my online harp purchases occasionally, you can never have too many harmonicas, and I am pleased with them.
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timeistight
998 posts
Dec 22, 2012
12:08 PM
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@HarveyHarp: Are you saying the Crossover and Deluxe reedplates are the same as the Special 20/Marine Band Classic? Hohner charges a lot more for them:
http://www.hohnershop.com/reed-plates/
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They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art.
Charlie Parker
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HarveyHarp
431 posts
Dec 22, 2012
12:50 PM
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@timeistight. Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, except for the placement of the mounting holes, and the tuning on the crossover.
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HarveyHarp
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HarveyHarp
432 posts
Dec 22, 2012
12:56 PM
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Oh, and the Spec 20 has the notch cut out for the cover supports, and does not have slots cut to locate the cover plates. The reason they cost less, is because they charge less.
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HarveyHarp
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loscott
32 posts
Dec 22, 2012
2:28 PM
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Hmm, this is good food for thought. I think I'll probably stick with the MB 1896 for now, but it's always good to keep these other options in mind. Thanks for all your input!
I also noticed that I said "peaked my interest" when I meant to say "piqued my interest." I sometimes have trouble with homophones and I wouldn't want anyone to think I don't know the difference :P
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