Hi all, I am thinking of getting a tube amp for practice, and don't want to spend too much. I have a Pignose Hog 30 that I like, but a friend, who is a pro harp player, said if I were to get anything else to get a tube amp. A little background - I am 61 and have been playing blues since the late 60s - mostly (until the past couple years) badly and in the wrong key unless I was lucky and guessed right. Anyway, I have worked hard the last couple years and improved enough to play along in a jam if the other participants are forgiving. Mostly, I just play along with MP3s, and focus on Little and Big Walter, James Cotton, both Sonny Boys, etc. I love the gritty Chicago sound. I have a couple of mics - a Red Howler (similar to a Green Bullet I think), and a Shure PE 585. So, as I look around the web I see terms like "combo guitar amp," "bass amp," etc., and don't know what I am looking at (or for). Thanks. Rich in Seattle
Last Edited by on May 14, 2012 11:52 AM
I'd highly recommend the VHT Special 6. It's a great amp, all tube, point to point wired and easily modded. If you plan on playing out at jams with it. Then I'd recommend adding a line out to it.
Thanks. I still need some education, however. When I search for this amp I see terms like - amp head - is this a separate item? Is a combo amp one that combines everything - I am guessing here - such as head, speaker and amp?
Last Edited by on May 14, 2012 12:14 PM
There was quite a lengthy thread on this a while back, lots of good advice. I think the Fender Champion 600 is a good safe bet and won't break the bank, retails for around $185, maybe less. I'm waiting to get some reviews on the Excelsior. You might want to consider getting on Greg Heumann's Kalamazoo list. You'll get a quality vintage amp AND a guarantee.
Thanks Woodeye - I'll search the archives (I didn't see the search function earlier), and look at Greg's list. Still need a bit of education on terms, however (please see my previous post). Thanks again.
A "head" amp is the amplifier chassis & circuitry, in a small cab (box), but no speaker. You either provide your own speaker in a cabinet, or buy one from the amp manufacturer. If you turn on a tube amp, without a speaker connected, you will KILL IT! They need a speaker attached to stop the tubes & transformer from burning up.
A "combo" amp is both the amplifier chassis & circuitry AND a speaker all in the same box, ready to go.
As regards the VHT, you want the combo with built in 10" speaker.
Thanks 5F6H - that really helps. Perhaps this is a silly question, but can you do something like connect a head to a Pignose amp (I have a Hog 30) and have that function as a speaker?
"Perhaps this is a silly question, but can you do something like connect a head to a Pignose amp (I have a Hog 30) and have that function as a speaker?"
Short answer: No.
Detailed explanation: You should never run an amp head's speaker cable into another amp's input. The voltage carried by the first amp is so high that it can damage the second. If the first amp has a "line out" jack, then that could be run into another amp with no problems. But NEVER run an amp head's speaker cable, or a combo amp's "external speaker" jack into another amp's input. Those are made strictly for use with a speaker cabinet. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
Another question - I am bidding on a Silvertone Smart II amp. Is this a solid state amp? Is it any better/different than my Pignose. I don't plan on bidding much on it, but don't need it if it is more or less the same as what I have. Thanks.
I picked up a Hohner Hoodoo 5 watt amp cheap with full intention to sell it first chance I got. I still have it and have no intention to let it go. It has a unique tone control that adds treble in the middle with dark reduced treble on one end and scooped at the other. It has separate tube gain control, volume control, reverb control,2 preamp tubes and one EL84 powertube that I've upgraded and played around with until I'm really happy with the sound. One of the nicest features is the XLR line output. It plugs into a pa the same as a microphone or Direct box making it a snap to connect to pa or recording device while using the high z mic and effect of your choice. I have bigger better amp's but sure do like having this one around.
I mostly play at home but occasionally go to a jam that isn't very loud. As I get better, I may do more but have no specific plans. I don't want to spend much - say, no more than $150 and preferrably less - mainly because I don't really need anything. I just thought it would be neat to have a tube amp.
At $150, you're not gonna get very far with a new tube amp. You can prolly find something on eBay, but there's no guarantee as to the actual condition of the amp that way. You might be able to find a new Fender Champ 600 on some amazon stores, but that's about it. For $150, you COULD get a solid state modeling amp like a Peavey Vypyr 15, Fender Mini Mustang, or a Roland Micro Cube. These will never attain genuine tube sound, but they can get you pretty nice results nevertheless. For a new, basic, 5 to 10 watt tube amp, expect to pay between $180 to $300.
My recommendations: Fender Champ 600, VHT Special 6, Epiphone Valve Jr., Gretsch Electromatic G5222 (identical to the Fender Champ 600), Bugera V5, or vintage Kalamazoo Model One or Model Two if you can find one that low. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on May 14, 2012 2:40 PM
If $150 is your target price, you can look towards the bottom of the fourth page of the For Sale thread, and you will see that I'm selling my Epiphone Valve Jr. head for that price. The Epi Valve Jr is a great starter tube amp, and this one is even better because I had it completely revamped for an even better amped harp tone... It is only the head (so you will also need a speaker cabinet), but I can guarantee that it sounds great...
I've loved this amp, but I need to sell it because a) I mainly use battery-powered equipment now because I mainly play out on the street, and b) I'm moving soon, and I just have to much gear. ---------- == I S A A C ==
On a sidenote...I think that's the first time I've seen a favorable review of the Hohner Hoodoo Box on this forum, courtesy of rainman there. Exactly what kind of tweaking did you do with the EL84 dude? ---------- Hawkeye Kane
He doesn't necessarily have to get the actual half-stack Valve Jr. cabinet. He could get a different one, and the great thing about speaker cabs is they can be used for other applications and with other amplifiers down the road. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
I think for about 150 bucks you can get a crate V5. Not a bad little tube amp for harp. I modded one with a better speaker and it sounds pretty good to me. Loud, and dirty or clean depending on how you drive it. ---------- Lucky Lester
Has anyone played harp through Fender's new ExcaliburExcelsior? I heard a couple of guitar players use it and I thought it sounded great for the bucks, but I didn't get a chance to try it with harp.
Last Edited by on May 14, 2012 2:53 PM
I've got my local equivalent of a Guitar Center with a note to call me AS SOON as they get some in. I'm itchin' and twitchin' to try one myself. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on May 14, 2012 2:54 PM
You could get lucky. I scored a used Champ 600 for $80 at Guitar Center. It had a very small tear on the covering that I fixed with superglue. It couldn't have had more than a few hours playing time on it. Check out music shops and Craigslist for used gear.
HawkeyeKane, I was a little embarrassed to admit it but it's a great little practice amp. I replaced the original Sovtek EL84 power tube with a NOS Amperex Bugle Boy I had lying around, the AX7 is a NOS Phillips and The AU7 is a Groove Tube. The speaker was removed from a Hammond Organ, a Heppner AlniCo. I bought the amp used from my local music store for $150.00 and got him to throw in a Marine Band. Built tough hand wired Class A amp designed for harp, what's not to love?? :) I sold my "Zoo" and kept my "Hoo"!
Last Edited by on May 15, 2012 1:59 AM
You stumbled upon a one in a thousand chance finding a used Hohner amp in your local music store. I have yet to see one in ANY music store in ANY condition! LOL
Don't be embarrased admitting that something has worked out well for you. Stick around here a while and read my posts, you'll find I'm a sucker for oddball underdog harps and equipment. Hell, for a while there, I was considering buying the package deal with the Hoodoo Hand Wireless system. But musiciansfriend jerked me around for so long on the availbility I finally gave up.
Can't beat NOS tubes. My band's bass player swears by Bugle Boys.
I *am* a little shocked that you'd part with a 'Zoo though. Heck, even though they weren't originally designed for harp, it really turned out to be their true calling. I'm still trying to get my hands on a Reverb 12. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on May 15, 2012 6:56 AM
@billy_shines: I have two battery powered street set ups: The first is based on a 10-watt Pyp PB-1, which is the best small battery amp I've heard for harp, and it just looks super cool. With this I use a DIY bullet-style mic I made myself, a Danelectro "fish and chips" eq, and a behringer digital delay pedal. This is the set up I use when I want to go "stealth" (light weight and quick set-up) and do a quick "hit and run" style street-gig.
My second set up is based on a vintage '70's 20-watt solid state PA (a Realistic MPA-20) that can run off a 12v battery. I've made a cabinet for the PA with a single 8" speaker, and a 12v 7AH marine battery. With this set up, I use a Zoom G3 effects processor for additional amped tones and FX, as well as looping. My mic for this setup is a Behringer XM8500 (essentially a shure SM58 clone). I've just added an impedance matching transformer, and now I can get a really good sound out this rig. This is my set up for playing a regular street set where I can take some time to set up and I need/want more volume and more effects and stuff. ---------- == I S A A C ==
yeah i have a pignose hog 20 12volts. but i dont like it now. i like how the tube radio amp is progressing. i want to make a reverb unit with a spring in an asparagus can. i want to keep everything small ruck sack size or my scooter trunk size. im baisng the reverb unit on the dane electro spring king. how did you make the mic? telephone element?
The mic is actually a rather "famous" project of mine, and there are actually quite a few threads on it in the forum archives from a few years back as it inspired several other forum members to give it a go. I actually made some very detailed instructions about how to do it, and have posted them at instructables.com. Here's a link to it: http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-quotbulletquot-style-harmonica-mic/
I've made my own little spring reverb units too. Actually it's quite a bit of a bigger job than you would think. You basically need to build one small 1w amp to drive the transducer attached to the front of the spring, and then you need to build a little preamp for the transducer attached to the back of the spring. I had best success using an LM386 amp chip and a little 2" speaker with the cone removed for the spring driver, and a little piezo disc attached to a little FET preamp (using a single J201 transistor). It was a huge pain to build though, and it didn't sound better than my cheap danelectro reverb pedal, so I gave up on it after a while.... ---------- == I S A A C ==
isaacullah, I own 3 Realistic MPA 20s and love them. I have them all set up to run on smaller 12v batteries too. One I use in my Garage with a nice Yamaha 8" speaker cab, for playing mp3 and or harp and guitar or both. The other is in a case with my PA to run the monitor speakers and the other is just a spare. I had a fourth one that I traded for a Fender Champ that needed a little work. Great little machines.
Hey Rich,I noticed that The guitar store at 8310 aurora ave in n.seattle has the vht classic six new for $229.thats a good # for a small music shop,worth checking out.I know its a little more than your budget but not by much.Good Luck.btw I just got lucky off of my local c.list here in jersey buying a 60,s lafeyette bass tube head with a matching 2 12 cab for $140.The head has 2 6l6,s,2 au,s and 1 ax.Its real quiet and has some great tones.I tubed it up on the au sockets with ays and its even nastier,great bottom end.Thats why I check c-list every day.the guy bought it new in the late 60,s at they,re newark store,do you remember that place Walter T.
I love old American brands like LaFayette. Had my eye on a LaFayette Echoverb II at a pawn shop here in town not long ago. They wanted more than I was willing to spend at the time. Waiting for them to come down on it.
Word of caution though...for whatever reason, unbeknownst to me, the threads on this forum tend to state that the VHT Classic 6 and VHT Special 6 Ultra are not as good for harp as the Special 6. I really don't get why. I mean, I can see the Ultra's extra circuitry and bells and whistles creating a degradation in harp tone, but the Classic 6 in my eyes is just a slightly simpler version of the Special 6 with a 12" speaker instead of a 10". Not to mention it has a line out, which is always a plus in my eyes.
Can someone here refresh my memory as to why the Special is preferred over the Classic? ---------- Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on May 16, 2012 7:00 AM
@MJ: You are right! Those old Realistic amps are fantastic! If I'm not mistaken, Realistic was the Radioshack brand for audio equipment (maybe still is?). These amps are great, but you have to be careful to get the ones from the 70's, as they continued to make them up through the 80's, but switched from the discreet transistor circuit to a chipamp, and those newer ones don't have that mellow tone of the older ones. You can tell the older ones because the "on" light is still a real light bulb, and in the newer ones, they switched to an LED. The other great thing about these amps is that they appear in thrift stores all the time. I got mine for $8 at the goodwill. What a find! :) ---------- == I S A A C ==
@isaacullah, Yes that is the Radio Shack brand. I also have the older ones. They were made in Japan, Then Korea. After that I am not sure. The switch is also better in the older models. It has one of the better one knob tone circuits I have run across. As far as this thread goes, I have not had a VHT but from everything I have read, they seem to be the way to start. However, If the opportunity to pick up a Champ 600 $75 or less (it does happen) I would go for it. I think they are nice little amps, speaking from personal experience. Probably the cheapest option for a starter.
@hawk eye,I noticed the one I mentioned had a 12 " sp.I don,t know the difference although I guess it wouldn,t hurt to test one.Its funny you guys mentioned radio shack,the little bit that I could find out about lafeyette mentioned that r.s. when coming onto the scene kinda of drove lafeyette under slowly but surely.Another thing I,ve been wanting to mention to you in ref. to kalamazoos(since I know you dig them),theres a site I mentioned quite a while back that has some sweet modded kalis to check out,punch in Voodoo Deville and let me know what you think,pretty awesome if you ask me.
Oh yes...I'm familiar with VoodooDeville's work. Snazzy as all get out! A little flashy for my taste, but damned good work nonetheless. I'm rebuilding my 'Zoo Deuce cab right now out of solid red oak, and I'm seriously considering not tolexing it, staining the wood, and shellacking it to keep the wood tone. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
I went to my local Guitar Center and played a couple of tube amps they had. Unfortunately, they did not have a Fender Champ 600 or any of the other amps people mention in the $150-200 range. What they did have was a used Peavey Classic 20 which I really liked (better than a Fender Blues Jr.). I put it on layaway as I can't buy it for 30 days. The searches I did on the web give me the impression that this is a good deal and a good tube amp for harp. What do all of you think? Thanks. Rich
Last Edited by on May 20, 2012 8:41 PM
@billy_shines: Actually, that would probably work pretty well! Good idea! You would still need to build a small 1w amp to drive the spring, but with a guitar pickup, you probably wouldn't need a preamp for the return. Probably will get better sound too, since a coil pickup will not be as tinny as a piezo. Remember to also wire a dry throughput from before the spring driver amp's input to a simple passive mixer (essentially a single pot set up as a voltage divider) at the output so you can mix dry and wet signal! Give it a shot and let us know how it turns out! ---------- == I S A A C ==
