Songs in E Second Position "A" Harmonica Boll Weevil Boom, Boom Out Goes The Light Going Down Slow I Just Keep Loving Her I've Had My Fun Juke Red Headed Woman Rocker Roller Coaster Shake Dancer Temperature The Toddle Who You Better Watch Yourself You Don't Know You're So Fine
Songs in F Second Position "Bb" Harmonica As Long As I Have You Back Track Big Leg Mama Blue Midnight Boogie Crazy Legs Dead Presidents Don't Need No Horse Everybody Needs Somebody Fast Boogie I Don't Play It's Too Late Brother Last Boogie Mean Old World Mercy Babe (My Babe) My Babe My Kind Of Baby Nobody But You One More Chance With You Quarter To Twelve Sad Hours Southern Feeling Temperature
Songs in G Second Position "C" Harmonica Ah'w Baby Bo Diddley Can't Hold Out Much Longer Chicken Shack Confessin' The Blues Come Back Baby Driftin' Everything's Gonna Be Alright Hate To See You Go I Just Want To Make Love To You I'm A Business Man I'm A Man Juke Key To The Highway Little Girl Long Distance Call Me And Piney Brown My Babe My Baby's Sweeter Off The Wall Oh Baby Rock Bottom Rollin' and Tumblin' Tell Me Mama Tonight With A Fool Too Late Walkin' On Who Do You Love? You Don't Love Me (You Don't Care)
Ab Second Position Koch "C" Chromatic Harmonica (button in) I Love You So (Oh Baby)
Songs in A Second Position "D" Harmonica Blues With A Feeling I Got To Find My Baby Just A Feeling Just Your Fool Mellow Down Easy Sad Hours Take Me Back You Can't Judge A Book By Its Cover You Gonna Be Sorry (Someday Baby)
Songs in B Second Position "E" Harmonica It Ain't Right Mean Old Frisco Worried Life Blues Can't Stop Lovin' You
C Second Position "F" Harmonica Break It Up
Songs in A Third Position "G" Harmonica I Got To Go You're Sweet
Songs in B Third Position "A" Harmonica One Of These Mornings Baby You Gonna Be Sorry (Someday Baby)
Songs in D Third Position Hohner 280/64 "C" Chromonica Up The Line Blue And Lonesome Crazy Mixed Up World Lights Out Fast Large One Blue And Lonesome Up The Line Blue And Lonesome Crazy For My Baby Teenage Beat
Songs in D Third Position Hohner 280/64 "C" Chromonica and "G" Diatonic Harmonica in Second Position Rock Bottom Thunderbird Flying Saucer
C Third Position Hohner "Bb" Super Chromonica and "Bb" Diatonic Harmonica in Third Position That's It
B Hohner 280/64 "C" Chromonica My Eyes Keep Me In Trouble
As I have mentioned before on this list, I'm almost certain that this song is done on a C chromatic with the button in. I think it is one of Walter's first attempts on the chromatic and wasn't quite sure what to do in 3rd position. I also don't think that he used any other key chromatic besides a C.
On That's It, he's definitely playing a 64 Chromatic, and he's attempting to play 1st position chromatic and definitely screws it up big time on it. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
i just got done playing along with "thats It" and the masterclass list is wrong and you guys are wrong. it wasnt a mistake, little walter was a god and didnt make mistakes. i tried first with a C chromatic and it didnt make sense until that solo part with the button pushed in. i tried using a 10 hole C diatonic it was way too shrill. i came closest with a koch fake chromatic alternating with the real chromatic in spots (button out) then doing the button in thing solo then back to the koch and some chugs on the low end of the 10 hole diatonic. i havent tried it electric yet. but im thinking hes using 3 harps (but it maybe just two) the song is in C 1st position the bit with the button in on the c chromatic is also in C, 6th position? walter isnt making any mistakes its not a false start or a studio abortion its a complete track and perfect not one note wrong.
i can only read the official Honher harp tabs but this is what walter is doing on the begining. if you have a tube amp and a koch in C try it. if you use a 10 hole C or a 10 hole Bb its not right. i will work out the rest up to the chromonica button in thing. but from what ive tested walter is using a koch and a honher 64 on "thats it" i even tried using a 364/365 marine band you cant play that begining bit without the koch slide diatonic.
Last Edited by on May 05, 2012 8:52 PM
It takes a little time but you can add harp keys as metadata to your collection on your computer and then you can sort by key. There is software that will figure out with pretty good accuracy what key a song is in, but I've never seen any that will do it to a whole collection at once or add the metadata. It would make a killer feature for a media player.
Correction to my post, I meant to say 1st positon in C on a C chromatic with the button in which will give you draw 1 flat 3rd, draw 2 flat 5, draw 3 flat 7, draw 4 tonic. blow 3 button out 5th, draw 2 button out 4th. I think he tried to play most of it with the botton in which is E flat 10 th position and that's why the notes start to clash.
@Piro 39 Yes that is correct! It's actually very easy to play once you REALLY know how to play 1st position on a chromatic. Almost all of it is done with the slide in and I'm serious it is very easy to play! It's interesting! I didn't know he knew how to play 1st position that way! Most Blues harp players don't. That is the only recorded example of him doing it. This way of playing the Chrom in C is so uncommon for blues musicians that Bob didn't know what he was talking about and he seems to be very knowledgable about this stuff! It is no more difficult than this: On a C chromatic in the key of "C". Push the slide in and all the draw notes are the minor 3rd,5th,7th, root note(C) minor 3rd,5th,7th root note(C) in that order and on and on. All the blow notes are the major notes. root note C major 3rd,5th root note C, again root note C. That's holes 1 through 5. It just repeats itself in all the other octaves. What does that mean? If you hold the slide in and draw and slide up and down the harp you can't hit a wrong note. When you get full of air blow out on anything. You can't hit a wrong note! You can litterly can play the chrom like a 5 year old. The only differencne is you have to have the button in for the for draws and release for the blows.
So in conclusion BQ Bob, Billy, and tmf you are all wrong. Piro you are half worng! LOL Ah but you are half right. Atleast your the only one that figured how he was playing it. You shot youreslf in the foot with the last sentence. Honerable mention!
You can play the chrom with the button in and play Eb in the same manner as you would playing in "D", but that isn't what LW was doing. So I guees that makes tmf half right also because I didn't hear any wrong notes either. He obviously didn't play that style very much, but it is very interesting to know that he did! I have never heard anyone mention this! LW's "That's it" and Stevie Woner's "Finger tips" are two very good examples of how to play this style in a blues context. Also I would recommend learning how to play the Blues scale in C to build your slide skill). Break down those two songs and that scale and you'll be amazed how easy and fun playing chrom in C is.
well i was going on others insisting there were two harps. i can play along easier with two. but it seems like a C chromonica will work alone with some practice. but i definately knew it was first position, and it wasnt a fuck up ending in "CUT!" or "TAKE TWO!" or "WAIT I'LL TRY IT AGAIN!" i stand corrected that walter was a god incarnate a perfect being without blemish. this is what happens when you start out in 1st position playing dylan and neil young and not negro spirituals. like the falling god you fill yourself with pride and think youre above walter and have the right to call him a drunken bumbler in the studio which he wasnt. ok so democratic vote do i change the list to C chromonica in 1st position for "thats it?" let me know it seems theres even more walter 1st position tunes.
The earliest recording I have so far found of a chromatic harmonica is "Hayseed Rag", recorded in 1924 by The Dizzy Trio featuring Borrah Minevitch. An .mp3 of this piece can be found on this page. It was almost 30 years before blues players started to use the chromatic, at least on record. The first recorded example is, not surprisingly, by Little Walter on the tune "That's It", recorded in July 1953. Unfortunately, it is not the best of debuts, as he swaps from diatonic to chromatic and seems to forget what key he is supposed to be in, noodles around for a while, then swaps back to diatonic! This piece is in the key of C and Walter is using a Bb diatonic in third position. He switches to a standard C 64 chromatic, which I suppose means that he is playing it in first position, but as he is mostly concentrating on the draw notes with the slide held in, it is perhaps easier to think of it as being a variation of sixth position (or if you really insist, you could claim it to be in the key of B# and that Walter is playing in thirteenth position!). Perhaps not surprisingly, this track was not issued at the time, but has since been made available on the 2CD collection "Blues With A Feeling: Chess Collectibles Vol 3" (MCA Chess CHD2-9357). Later in that same session, he turned in a somewhat more competent performance on "Fast Large One", a tune in a more conventional third position style (key of D on a C chromatic). It also went unreleased at the time, but is currently available on "The Essential Little Walter" (MCA Chess CHD2-9342).
Walter begins the song in 1st position on the diatonic (C) harp and then switches to a C Chromatic for the solo. Now this is very interesting. Many harmonica players have assumed that Walter was trying to take a 1st position chromatic harp solo here, but this is simply not the case. What he is doing in fact is the same thing that he was doing two years earlier on That's It - he is playing his C chromatic with the button in. Technically speaking, this means he is playing 6th position harp (he is playing in C using a Db harmonica). Now I doubt Walter was thinking about playing in a different harmonica 'position', but it is possible that he was trying to cultivate this particular part for his chromatic playing. I can't help but think though that if this were case he would have done a better job of it - I mean come on man, this is Little Walter! He does better with it here than he did on That's It, but not by much - he only plays for 8 bars of the break and then aborts, laying out for a couple of bars and then coming back with the C diatonic, with which he finishes out the song. It must be a mistake, no? Then again, what are the chances of Walter using the wrong harp in the same way on record twice? Maybe he was trying to do what he did on That's It. In the end it's tough to say - we can figure out what Walter is doing on these songs, but we can never really be certain about why he is doing it - it's all part of the great mystery of life!
chromaticblues, the only reason I brought up E flat 10th postion was that he might have gotten confused and left the button in when he hit the V (3 blow which would be G#] and 4 or 5 blow which would be C# and of course the blow 2 would be the IV with the botton in.
On both "That's It" & "My Eyes Keep me In Trouble" LW is playing the chromatic the same way that he does on all his other recordings, using 1/5/9 draw as the tonic, he just has the slide button depressed.
He starts the solo in My Eyes natural, pushes the slide during the gliss (probably aware of some dischord), it "works" over the tonic portion as the natural "A" becomes Bb with the slide in - the note that forms the basis of the riff on the diatonic parts. He is out of tune during the IV chord, but the notes harmonise well enough, hits the Bb again on the I chord and bows out gracefully on the V/IV/turnaround. As with "That's It", this was a mistake, but a salvageable one.
---------- www.myspace.com/markburness
Last Edited by on May 06, 2012 2:19 PM
@Billy That's it should be under 3rd position Bb and 1st position Chromatic. @5F6H I don't know how you think that? He clearly resolves the opening lick on the 1 blow. He is playing in the key of C on a Chromatic. As far as I know he didn't usually do that. I know how to play what he was trying to do! That's how I know. @Piro yeah he does loose it about half way through then resorts to try playing blow notes and just slides up the harp blowing (which does work), but if you start by playing the majority of licks with the slide it sounds wrong to bail on that and start playing blow notes with the slide out. He must have figured out how to use the slide in to play in first position, but didn't practice it enough and just got screwed up. We've all done that! So that part is easy to figure out. I just like the fact that he did it! It's not great by any means, but I really like playing first position in the manner he was trying to. What I get out of this whole thing is he was a lot smarting than many people give him credit for. It would have been great if would have spent more time at it and figure out how to play the blues scale in first, but he left us with many other enjoyable pieces!
Last Edited by on May 07, 2012 5:12 AM
i dunno you guys are talkin a lang i dont get. i had a 10 hole chromonica in the 80s it got stolen, i never played it with the button. then i got another one and broke a reed. i just got a 12 hole chromonica in europe and like switching harps with a Db diatonic. i guess i was playing in first or 6th i dunno. but after trying 'thats it" with the koch and chromonica i really liked it better than 10 hole diatonic. so i'll keep messing with that maybe it will get more natural maybe not. but you guess have opened up my eyes to the fact i need to pursue getting laid more and less research and reading. thanks a bunch youve been a big help.
oh and off topic i got some gold beater skin for making clarinet valves? im using for a skin head for a persian tahr. but i will have left over can i use this for chromatic valves? i heard they were originally leather parchment not plastic. also i heard that for blues you have to take off one valve on the 7th hole i dont know which one. should i mess with this or leave it be? any info out there?
@Billy after you remove the coverplates you'll notice the vales are on half of the reed slots. That's because the other half are inside the harp. On the 7 hole (on both reedplates) remove the valve on the outside. On the 8 hole remove the one on the inside and on the 9 hole also remove the one on the outside. Some Chroms won't even have valves on the small reeds. If yours has valves on the 10 hole remove the outside one there also. As far as what you were saying at the beginning of your last post. Yeah I even bore myself sometimes!
Chromatic blues "@5F6H I don't know how you think that? He clearly resolves the opening lick on the 1 blow. He is playing in the key of C on a Chromatic. As far as I know he didn't usually do that. I know how to play what he was trying to do! That's how I know."
You assume to know what he was trying to do...this is what's confusing the issue, we can only work off what he did do. 1 Blow is often used in 3rd position, it only resolves if the band is in C and you are too, otherwise you are playing a flat 7th in 3rd pos. There are probably lots of guys on this forum who can play what LW played, notewise, on those 2 tracks...replicating it they would probably use the correct key of Chrom/Bb.
"There are probably lots of guys on this forum who can play what LW played, notewise, on those 2 tracks...replicating it they would probably use the correct key of Chrom/Bb."
Dennis Gruenling crushes it in 6Th position on a C Chrom.
@5F6H All I can tell you is you are wrong! Would it be easier for all the Little Walter type chrom players to play it on Bb Chrom? Obviously it would have been easier for him too! So what are you saying? It was played on a Bb chrom or to play it "properly" one would have to use a Bb. The correct key? So in order to a song in C the correct key is Bb? So I'm confusing the issue with facts? Go listen to the song Mark and try to play along with your C chromatic. You'll find I'm right! OK enough for me!
ok then thats what i was doing. i quit smoking in europe because i was short winded and i lost my voice. so after a week my wind came back and i started messing with my lady freinds harps. i was practicing this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oEmu1XOcTM id start 1st hole blow then that cool slide up thing i did button in like walter not like this hakan guy. then id do the slide up thing with a Db 10 hole diatonic i gave her in 09 that i had since 1981 and never used. so i guess this was C 1st and 6th on Db? in any event i thought it was cool. i thought that 6th slde up thing button in sounded even better on the chrometta 14 hole. when i got back to florida i tried switching the koch and the super chromonica and really liked it. sorry im very brain damaged and it seemed to help me understand the differences. im going to continue playing the koch because it takes alot of wind. while smoking cigs i would lose breath and give up on it. i like it alot now and i want a G koch to jam with my freind in A minor. and i want the big monster 64. thanks you guys are really helping me get this stuff now (i started a notebook):D
@tmf do you know if Dennis has that song on one of his CD's. Please don't get me wrong I'm not trying to argue with you tmf. OK think about that! OK Now if you are playing in the key of C on a C harmonica. What position are you playing in? The slide being in or not doesn't affect what position your in. I'm not trying to confuse people with the facts. I know this is uncommon ground for most people that play blues Chromatic. After third position most people are lost. Dennis Gruenling is a great example of what happens when you really know how to play Chromatic Blues in more than one position. Goerge Smith was a great blues chrom player that played in 3rd and 1st, but the button was a counter wieght for him. Thats what I like about this song. LW figured out that you could play in C with the botton in and out. He just didn't spend enough time with it!
The hole in your assertion is that LW was trying to play in "C". We have no way of knowing this. That is a fact.
He does not play in "C" on That's It, there is a tangible key change on the harp to Eb. He riffs in Eb, sticking to harmonising notes on the I chord (....not quite on the IV) on My Eyes.
He obviously didn't have perfect pitch and misjudged the situation. ---------- www.myspace.com/markburness
@chromaticblues- The song is on "I Just Keep Lovin' Him",Dennis' Little Walter tribute CD. Dennis is emulating what Walter was trying to get at- B#,sixth position with the slide in on a C Chromatic. B# is the same note as C.
I don't know the LW piece in question, but I do know this--because I investigated it as a curiosity when I stumbled on it and was helped by folks here: If you play a C chrom in the key of C with the slide held in, focusing mostly on the draw notes, you're playing in the key of C. And you're playing the way that Stevie Wonder does when he plays "Fingertips" in this video:
Stevie plays this way because in C, playing draw notes, you get wonderful double stops that you can't get in first position.
Again: I have no idea of this is what LW was doing. But it seems crazy and contorted to call this B#. It a cool, bluesy way of playing the chrom in C.
Last Edited by on May 07, 2012 10:42 AM
"Chro if you believe the button was just a counterweight for George Smith you should listen a little closer. Just sayin!"
Yes indeed. I agree with you Joe.
"If you play a C chrom in the key of C with the slide held in, focusing mostly on the draw notes, you're playing in the key of C."
I always thought that if you did that you were playing in Eb. I suppose though it's all as question of which note you resolve on?
Last Edited by on May 07, 2012 10:45 AM
Chromatic Scale Notes On a key of C Chrom Hole & Breath Button Names Key Colour
1 blow out C (B#) white
1 blow in C# Db black
1 draw out D white
1 draw in D# Eb black
2 blow out E (Fb) white
2 blow in (E#) F white
2 draw out F (E#) white
2 draw in F# Gb black
3 blow out G white
3 blow in G# Ab black
3 draw out A white
3 draw in A# Bb black
4 draw out B (Cb) white
4 draw in (B#) C white
4 blow out C (B#) white
4 blow in C# Db black
On a 12 hole harp, the hole-1 blow note is middle C on the piano. On a 16 hole harp, the 1st blow note is an octave below middle C. Some 16 hole harps are numbered from 1 to 16. For these hole 1 is an octave below middle C and holes 5-8, 9-12, 13-16 have the same layout as a 12 hole harp. On some 16 hole harps the first octave holes are numbered 1 to 4 with dots above them. The remaining holes are numbered 1 to 12 which are exactly the same as a 12 hole harp.
@Kingley: Yes, it's a question of which note you resolve on. If you make the C your tonic, you're playing in C. And it works. Work out, Stevie, work out!
wow ive always loved stevies playing but could never get the button thing on the 10 hole chromonica. used to play isnt she lovely on diatonic as a teen. im gonna listen to stevie more now.
@tmf yes I understand what your saying. I know B# is the same as C. How could I know how to in C with the slide (mostly) in C without knowing? The reason I asked what position it is in is because anyone that plays this way substitute the blow 4 or 5 for the 4 draw slide in. Also if your doing this on a 10 hole Cro you don't have the C on hole 3 draw slide in. So you have to play the 1 blow. OK if you play any blow C are still playing 6th position or 1st? My point is doesn't matter! your playing in the key of C on a C harmonica. I haven't listened to Dennis's version yet, but LW did play the blow 3 and blow 1. Does that he went from 6th to 1st. That's ridiculous ! @ Harpwrench Yeah Yeah I know start wearing dust mask when tuning the yellow brass! The reason I choose George Smith is because I couldn't think of anyone else that played first position cro that (as far as I know) didn't use the button. I haven't heard all of his recording and I could very well be wrong about. I just haven't heard it thats all. @Kingly and everyone else YES if you play in 3rd position and press the button. You are playing in Eb. When playing C minor most of the same notes are used. It's not the same thing. Anyone that is actually interested in learning about (rather than arguing) read my post from May 6th at 7:59 AM. That pretty much explains it. I can't do more than that here!
Try Peg of my Heart and Left my heart in San Francisco for your listening enjoyment. Don't breathe the yellow dust, it has lead in it lol! ---------- Spiers Harmonicas
@chromaticblues-you need to do some work on your position knowledge-there are degrees of the scale which contain the same notes,but in different pitches. Thats why 6th postion works for "Thats It"-the notes are located in different places on the harp,and those notes are pitched in a more "ear freindly",or pleasing way. So you see,it DOES matter! If you know how to play what Walter was doing,then just post a vid or audio. Thats the only way you would have me believe you know what you are talking about.
Last Edited by on May 07, 2012 1:29 PM
wow i feel like bugs bunny when he gets the rednecks to start fighting and crawls out of the cloud of stars unscathed. im still chromatic stupid but im really tryin to pay attention. both you guys are really smart. im really glad i lived long enough to get the net. i tried books as a teenager i never understood chromatic or its possibilities. i hope adam doesnt pull this thread theres so much i need to refer to. keep debating (civily) this is amazing. @chrom and tmf u guys got any vids? i wanna subscribe to your channels. seriously no joke. oh and i dont have one yet but i bet a low F diatonic would sound killer with a c chromatic in ist is it possible?
@chromaticblues: Please answer two questions for me. Question #1 is actually two questions. Question #2 is actually three questions:
1) In the "Fingertips" video that I've posted above, isn't Stevie, for the most part, playing with the button in? Specifically, isn't he playing the C in various octaves, most of the time, with the button in?
2) Aren't Stevie and the band playing in the key of C? Isn't C--and not Eb--the key center? Isn't Stevie primarily playing the C blues scale: C, Eb, F, F#, G, Bb, C, with the G sometimes left out?
Last Edited by on May 07, 2012 2:12 PM
Walter plays with the button in for the complete duration of the Chromatic solo. It's his approach that is radical. For the solo he is sliding up to the 5 draw with the button in for the first note. On paper it trancsribes out as 1st position-but Walters approach places him in 6th position.
Last Edited by on May 07, 2012 3:20 PM
Yes Kudzurunner the song is in C. I'm not sure if plays the whole thing wtihout hitting the 7 blow. He does bend the 7 draw with the slide in. He does get it down to the G to and that's not easy to do. The whole song is based on using the 4 draw with the slide in as the root note. He releases the slide many times though. The 6 draw with the button is the minor 5th and released the 4th notes of the C scale (I now you know this Adam I'm laying it so hopefully everyone will understand). That was the hole he does it the most. He also does it on the 5 draw button in and released. Minor 3rd button and major 2nd released. I think it's the second passage where he ends that part by playing 4 draw slide in, 5 draw slide in, 6 draw slide out and 5 blow slide out. He subs the 5 blow for the 4 draw slide in. That's just smart playing. You fill up with air and unload it on the root note. So you see he primarily plays with the slide in using 4 draw slide in as the root note, but there's more to it than that. So it would be yes to all questions with a side note that the slide is released from time to time.
Last Edited by on May 07, 2012 3:30 PM
@tmf do you teach harmonica classes? Your 1:29 post cracks me up! Music is not taught on the Chromatic by positions! That is something diatonic players refer to. Man when you read a post you just see what you want. If you don't believe anything I say that's fine. You don't have to. I don't really care what you believe! How old are 10?
@chromaticblues-better reread my 1:29 post-you have a lot to learn my friend. Blues harmonica players certainly do refer to chromatic by position-3rd mostly. By the way, I happen to be 51 years old. Just for the record-lol. I do not teach harmoncia,but I could if need be.
