picardz
2 posts
Apr 26, 2012
10:16 AM
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Seriously I do not understand why I can't achieve
An overblow! I have been trying for awhile now.
I have read everything online, seen all the YouTube vids possible,
and still nothing. I even bought the Suzuki overdrive which enables
me to choke the blow reed by putting my finger on it, but still
no success. I control bends very well and can blow bend on
the high notes relatively easy. What could it be that I'm doing wrong?
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bluemoose
731 posts
Apr 26, 2012
10:24 AM
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When I overblow I have the sensation of focusing breathe down across the hole from high up in my cheeks.
The cheeks feel a bit more full and puffy. It's a light breathe, not forced.
Plus reeds need to be gapped for optimal OB's but you can OB an OOTB harp, usually hole 6.
MBH Webbrain - a GUI guide to Adam's Youtube vids
FerretCat Webbrain - Jason Ricci's vids (by hair colour!)
Last Edited by on Apr 26, 2012 10:25 AM
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picardz
3 posts
Apr 26, 2012
11:14 AM
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Thank you. Yes I know about the gapping.
But I bought the overdrive harmonica so it
eliminates it, no ? Cause it chokes the reed no ?
Is anyone knows a little about this harmonica by Suzuki?
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arzajac
784 posts
Apr 26, 2012
11:43 AM
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Can you get the note while blocking the blow reed with your finger?
What key do you have?
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Willspear
169 posts
Apr 26, 2012
11:45 AM
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Can you whistle?
Really open up and repeatedly change the pitch of your mouth kind of a weeeeeee-oooohhhhhhhhh thing without clamping down on it. Like changing the pitch of a whistle. All you are trying to do is resonate orally at a pitch the blow reed can't handle. Really once you can choke it you are so close. The 6 was the first one I got the one ob is way harder than the 4-5-6-
Light pressure forcing them for me never worked. I tried so hard it was literally stopping it from happening. Bending can be forced but ob/od just won't sound.
I know there are much better ob guys than me but I can do them.
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harp-er
99 posts
Apr 26, 2012
12:00 PM
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Hopefully you've studied some of what's on overblow.com
I found that site to be very helpful in getting my first overblow on the 1 hole by following Tinus' video instructions. For me, it's more about the back of the tongue being in the right place. You've probably read all about these things though.
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Matthew
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STME58
165 posts
Apr 26, 2012
12:13 PM
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"Can you get the note while blocking the blow reed with your finger?"
If I understand the Suzuki Overdrive, putting a finger over the hole in the cover plate is the same as blocking the blow reed for that hole.
I was disuaded from buying an overdrive by someone who told me that learning to play an overdrive would be like learning to play a woodwind instrument. In the long run, I think spending $2K for a good sax would be cheaper than buying harps.
I bought a Hammond instead of an Overdrive. I can sometimes get the oveblows to sound.
Last Edited by on Apr 26, 2012 12:18 PM
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arzajac
786 posts
Apr 26, 2012
12:43 PM
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"If I understand the Suzuki Overdrive, putting a finger over the hole in the cover plate is the same as blocking the blow reed for that hole."
Yes, but Picardz doesn't specify whether he can sound the note that way.
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MP
2196 posts
Apr 26, 2012
12:51 PM
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just keep at it. eventually you'll arrive at your AHA! moment.
it took me four and a half months to play them with any
authority and length. most of that time was spent using faulty technique.
it'll come. one day you'll get it and go 'WOW!' it isn't that hard at all.
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name for info-
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HarpNinja
2364 posts
Apr 26, 2012
1:08 PM
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I have an overdrive. I am a very proficient overblower. I also know how to set up top tier OB harps.
You still have to play an OB embochure for the Overdrive to work. The finger holes let you block the opposing reed - which is the same thing you are trying to do on any harp to OB. Its like playing a well done custom - the OB can sound, but you have to play it correctly.
You say you are a proficient bender, but that doesn't mean you bend the same way you OB. IMO, if you can bend from the front of you mouth...similar to how a lot of blues players blow bend, you can probably OB. If you tongue block your bends or really bend from the back of your throat or you can play the bends but not with full tone, you may have to make some adjustments...at least until you "get it".
My advice...
Take the Overdrive. Block hole 6 with your finger. Play a 6 draw bend (try to use the front of your mouth if you can), and then reverse the air flow.
In otherwords, use the mouth position of a 6 draw bend when playing a blow note. It will feel a bit like a blow bend.
It is a lot like putting a straw in your mouth and letting it stick out parallel to the floor...then bending the tip down towards the floor using the front of your mouth (which will put a crease in the straw).
You can do that by just moving your tongue and NOT your mouth, jaw, etc.
That will get you started...you then have to find the sweet spot like on a draw 3 bend to play it with good tone and in tune. For me, I feel like my tongue is directing the airflow to the spot where my two front teeth meet my gums (on 6 ob anyways).
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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arzajac
787 posts
Apr 26, 2012
1:12 PM
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Hi Mark!
I agree. Once you get there, it's easy.
I am reminded of this as I am trying to learn tongue-blocking overblows. I can lip-purse them effortlessly but through the side of my mouth, not so much.
I think to myself, "the note is right there!" and play it lip-pursed. But there is some magic that has to happen for the technique to work. I am reminded of how frustrating it is for a beginner.
But it's all temporary. It will come...
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MP
2199 posts
Apr 26, 2012
1:40 PM
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Hi Andrew!
exactly! i remember back in '72 when i got the two draw bend. at the time i didn't know there were two half steps, but i digress.
i don't tounge block OBs because i haven't tried hard enough. other things take precedence. practice, gigs,
all those repairs on my bench, and bodysurfing the last swell of the year at the Banzai Pipeline. not Pipeline proper but a break a hundred yards down Ehukai beach called Gums.
it's called Gums because a surfer found false teeth in the white water. embouchure? :)
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name for info-
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didjcripey
234 posts
Apr 26, 2012
2:39 PM
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Know what you mean picards; it can be pretty frustrating. Give it a break, but keep coming back to it. The harp setup has a lot to do with it. I only just got to the stage where I can consistently play a clean overblow, but only on one reed on one harp! I have tried setting gaps, but they either choke or don't overblow. Funnily enough, the one harp that I can overblow on is a really cheap silver star (twelve bucks). Maybe I was a bit more adventurous working on it because I was not worried if I wrecked it.
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Lucky Lester
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picardz
4 posts
Apr 26, 2012
4:04 PM
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Thank you so much guys! You have been very helpfull !
It's kinda ironic , but I have succeeded doingmy first overblow!
I need for some reason to do a spitting voice, and it comes out. Although I can sustain it. This is proving to be very frustraiting indeed. But at least I got my first break (:
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MP
2206 posts
Apr 26, 2012
4:40 PM
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picardz,
awesome!
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name for info-
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picardz
5 posts
Apr 26, 2012
6:22 PM
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Haha it still sounds really bad. Like you take out the air from a balloon and stretch the tip so it makes that annoying sound.
The weirdest thing. My overblows come out better tongueblocking...
Last Edited by on Apr 26, 2012 6:34 PM
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opendoor_harps
26 posts
Apr 26, 2012
10:41 PM
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Not sure if this helps. When I first figured out how to do this when I was young, it seemed like a very cool thing. And probably annoyed a lot of people at parties.
Taking an empty bottle (better if it was a good dram too), and find the proper angle and embouchure to blow a nice deep note into it, maybe even bending the pitch a bit...
Then do the same thing, but change your mouth position and tongue to blow more across the top of the bottle with a little more pressure until you find the correct angle and position to kick the overblow of the high octave... (screeeeeeee).
For some reason remembering this has helped me with finding the OB's on the harp.
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The "blow hole (x), draw hole (x), draw bend hole (x), blow back same hole- with mouth in draw bend position technique" helped too.
@Harp Ninja: described this well: "In otherwords, use the mouth position of a 6 draw bend when playing a blow note. It will feel a bit like a blow bend."
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Michael Rubin
506 posts
Apr 27, 2012
7:05 AM
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Can you really jam a high note 1st position solo ala Jimmy reed? I believe getting a pro sound with your high notes leads to the embouchure of being able to overblow.
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PT
129 posts
Apr 27, 2012
3:26 PM
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Michael Rubin has hit on something that all of you should sit up and take notice. Pro Sound with high notes leads to the embouchure of being able to overblow....this is what I was getting at when asked how I do valved bends. I said that I did not change my technique but refined it and made it better. Overblows and valved bends require the next level of bending technique. As I have said before, if I play a unvalved harmonica and go to hole six and try to do a valved bend... I overblow the note. Thanks Michael for putting in one concise phrase what I fumbled around with for minutes.
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"Life...10 Holes & 20 Reeds At A Time"
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Michael Rubin
507 posts
Apr 27, 2012
3:34 PM
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PT, I am finding some beautiful uses for your half valved harp, especially in straight harp during the blow notes.
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nacoran
5603 posts
Apr 27, 2012
4:04 PM
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I can blow bend a Blues Band like butter, but I can't get repeatable overblows.
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Nate
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PT
130 posts
Apr 30, 2012
11:28 AM
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@ michael....yeah it lays out great for that. Pat Bergeson also plays a lot in first and was very taken with the valved thing as well.
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"Life...10 Holes & 20 Reeds At A Time"
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HarpNinja
2376 posts
Apr 30, 2012
11:33 AM
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It works both ways with the valved harps. I could bend a D from PT within the first couple of minutes.
I was going through a bunch or OOTB harps this weekend and found the 6ob was solid on almost every single one. I think that is the easiest one to start to experiment with too. 4 and 5 are trickier. 4 has the most unique mouth position, IMO, and 5 almost requires a different attack on higher keys.
At any rate, 6ob and 7od are fairly similar in embouchure and aren't too different than a good blow bend.
I am still talking in general terms.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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harpdude61
1367 posts
Apr 30, 2012
1:39 PM
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First thing is take the Overdrive and find the highest bidder. I found it to be a waste of time.
Learn to overblow from the throat like J.R. and some of the greats do.
IMHO..there is no overblow embrochure or blow bend embrochure or overdraw embrochure. Learn all the types of notes with one embrochure and this enables you to blend all styles in various phrasing.
Bend with the throat...All types of bends.
Sure, an overblow can be produced by varying techniques, but why play any note from the front of the mouth? Really shrinking the ole resonator there.
Try bouncing the airflow from your throat off the roof of your mouth. Easy ..no "popping" required.
I practice 16th notes at about 100 beats per minute. Thats four notes in one beat. 6 blow, 6 draw bend, 6 draw, and 6 overblow. With practice you can go cleany between the four notes with a minimal amount of change inside your mouth. Nothing change for me except for throat shape and position (which affects tongue shape and airflow direction).
LEarning to overblow with the throat make overblows fat and very controlable. Bending and vibrato come easy this way.
Some may not agree but if you want to use overblows and overdraws like any other note...short , long, passing, sustained, with a growl, in a double stop etc..etc. and become a complete part of your playing this is the way to go.
This also eliminates hesitation of the OB sounding as i have heard described on the forum.
Last Edited by on Apr 30, 2012 1:41 PM
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