A friend of mine gave me a bunch of MS harps -- three Blues Harps and 3 Big Rivers. He bought them a while ago for some stuff he had written (he writes for TV and film), used them for one series of pieces, and stored them away in a cigar box.
Of these freebies, I'm interested in the D, Eb, E and F harps since I have no harps higher than C (I'm a relative beginner). The Eb Big River is decent, the E Blues Harp is just ok, the D Big River not so good, and the F Big River pretty much sucks.
Would it be worth it to invest a few dollars in some nice flat combs ? Would the aftermarket combs, flat sanding the draw plate and some reed work get these things to play well enough to be worth keeping, or would I be better off just saving my money and buying better quality higher harps as I need them ?
FYI, I like Seydel 1847s and GMs best so far........
I first started playing on MS harps. The BluesHarp being my favorite. I have since moved on to Seydel 1847's for which there is no comparison.
If your are a beginner then the bluesharp should serve you well (i personally don't like the Big Rivers, i found them incredibly leaky).
Try some Hetrick combs, they wont cost the earth and it may improve the harps,its also fun to change the combs and try something a little different sometimes.
If you haven't got good control over how hard you blow yet then you might want to stay away from Seydel for a while,they are a high end harp and some people can blow reeds on them easily. ----------
http://www.youtube.com/user/fiendant?feature=mhum
Last Edited by on Apr 18, 2012 11:09 PM
I personally like the way the Blues Harps sound, but they are rough on the lips. A new comb and some sanding might fix them up fine. The question really is though, do you like the sound of them? A comb can improve how airtight a harp is, but it's not going to really change the tone. The fine tinkering, the stuff beyond gapping, is often about overblowing. If you overblow it's important. If you don't, it's a lot less important.
I'm not sure on this, but since it's got a plastic comb, the Big River might well use the same comb size as several other Hohners. If you double check that and it is, you might just buy one comb and see if it helps. If it works and you like the results get a couple more. If it doesn't, throw it on a SP20 or a MB (SP20's and MB's holes are drilled a little differently, but they are otherwise the same, but otherwise the same combs. You could do the same thing with the Blues Harps, but people aren't as enthusiastic about the MS series harps. They like old Meisterklasse but not new ones, so the options for other harps to fit the comb are slimmer.
Another option, at least for the Blues Harps, is to clean up the combs, sand them a bit and make sure they are all nice and level and seal them yourself. A bottle of mineral oil (make sure it doesn't have any drying agents in it) is cheaper than a new comb. There are some old threads on fixing up combs. (I think maybe all the great new options for custom combs have pushed all but the more ambitious out of customizing combs, but it's still and option.)
A Big River with a flat comb is an awesome harp. Hetrick makes them as mentioned, but Blue Moon Harmonicas also have them in a nice variety and quality stuff, too!
Once you replace the stock comb, Big Rivers are nice and loud and very playable with great tone.
You can restore the Blues Harps combs since they are wood and you can flat sand and seal them yourself.
I would do it the same way I would restore a vintage marine band:
Also, you can interchange the combs and coverplates between all these harps since they are all MS series.
As you are a "relative beginner" and have not owned any harps higher then a C you might just need to get used to them. Once you get above C they do tend to start feeling "tighter" and require making some adjustments to embouchure etc.
Good point Baker. I recall my F blues harp was unplayable until I learned to play it. It still catches me out sometimes. I pick it up and "it" doesn't work, then I adjust and it "becomes" playable. Personally, I like blues harps, mainly I like their size and shape. The comb doesnt bother me, I've never had an issue with lip damage and puzzled when people say the harp injured them. Maybe I'm not doing it right? I've avoided big river harps but probably only because I heard they weren't much chop. Anyway, I've usually found I can make a blues harp play well with a bit of work on the gaps. ----------
Last Edited by on Apr 19, 2012 1:26 PM
Sorry. I don't agree that comb material has ANYTHING to do with playability. A comb designed to seal well yes, material? I think not. I also don't think what type of would an amp cabinet has anything to do with tone/ My opinion.
comb material has massive effect on playability whether it impacts tone is subjective
the playability of abs vs unsealed wood vs metal...etc.. all have huge impacts on feel
amp cabinet material causing change in sound is very apparent. For example one time I as cutting a new baffle and I cut it out of pine and it had horrible acoustic resonance. there is a reason baffles are generally cut out of plywood.
it is the same principle as archtop guitars which acoustically it is quite apparent the tone difference betweeen a gibson ply top guitar compared to a similarly braced carved top like an eastman.
Well, I don't know if it's material, design,or precision of fabrication, but the BAMBOO combs from Hetrick have exceptional compression--superior to any other Hetrick comb I've tried. I've put them on MBDs and Crossovers and performance of the instrument improves noticeably with these Bamboo combs.
The Blue Moon silver aluminum combs are also exceptional. Again, i don't know it's material, design or precision of manufacture, but I'm using a couple on low key custom GMs and they have great compression and response.
Other custom combs I've been very favorably impressed with are Spiers corian (GM), Reynolds dymondwood (GM), and Sjoeberg dymondwood (GM).
I used to play MS harps for a while and didn't like them. Never put a custom comb on one though.
My two cents. You mention you are a "relative beginner". Your friend gave you 6 harps which are worth between $25 - $35 each depending upon where you buy them. I see this as an opportunity to further your education. If you're going to dabble in harp playing, you might as well learn how to tweak and maintain them. You could not have picked a better set of harps to work with. With any luck, you will wind up with some good playing harps and you'll pick up some useful knowledge. The worst that can happen is that you ruin a few harps which cost you nothing and you'll still learn something in the process.
The Blues Harp and the Big River are both part of the Hohner "MS-Series". MS stands for Modular System. This means that all of the parts are interchangeable.
Andrew (arzajac) offers some great information about how to make the wood combs on the Blues Harps perform better. You can also try one of them out on the Big River Harps in place of the plastic combs. You might try a set of the Big River reed plates with a Blues Harp comb and cover plate. You'll notice that the Blues Harp only uses two screws to secure the reed plates to the comb. You might try adding a couple more screws to see if that tightens up the seal between the reed plates and comb and makes the harp play better.
I am reminded of one of my favorite scenes from one of my favorite movies.
I did not even own a Big River or a MS Blues Harp until I decided to start making combs for them. I had to buy a few so I could reverse engineer the combs. I too had heard that the Big Rivers were inferior instruments. I might not have the refined taste some others on this forum have but I was pretty impressed with the Blues Harps and Big Rivers. For the money, I think they are good harps. As good as a Seydel 1847? No. But in no way are they junk - in my opinion.
I won't get into reed work because that would take too long. On YouTube alone there is an encyclopedia of information which has been provided by experts who have so generously given of their time and talents. That said, often something as simple as adjusting the reed gaps can make a huge difference in how a harp plays.
So take advantage of this opportunity. Have some fun and let us all know how it works out.
Tom
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Last Edited by on Apr 19, 2012 1:36 PM
my least fav MS is the Miesterklasse. i don't think it is the aluminum comb but that may have something to do with its' dull sound. more than likely the nazi panzer division anti tank armored cover plates.
the cheaper models- like yours, are superior sounding to my ears. ---------- MP affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
Thanks to all for their advice and observations ! It sounds like I should go ahead and get some combs (definitely don’t like the feel of the Blues Harp combs) and see what I can do to get these freebies playing better. I actually like the feel of the Big Rivers -- they sound pretty good, but some of them sure do seem to be pretty leaky.
Relative beginner means that I have been playing for about 10 months or so – I have played professionally on trombone since the mid ‘90s. I started on chrom and picked up a Solist Pro in C out of curiosity after a couple of months. I have continued to practice chrom, but have become sort of obsessed with playing the diatonic chromatically. I practice scales, arpeggios and a lot of basic stuff – I try to read and learn (painfully slowly) any music that strikes my fancy – classical, jazz, brazilian, funk, etc. I work on improvising a lot – my limited technique forces me to keep it super simple, which is probably a really good thing in the long run…..
My first two gigs on harp were with my own group, playing a varied set of music with singer/tuba/guitar/trombone+harmonica. I played harp on the Joni Mitchell tune “A Case of You” and on a free jazz thing that we did without the singer. Just before the start of the second gig, my chrom started having valve issues (I since have learned how to warm them up properly), so I ditched it and played the Solist Pro instead (I thought it sounded great). I have recently played my first recording session on harmonica, playing chrom and diatonic on a reggae track for a low budget film soundtrack – the composer had me play the melody on top of a trumpet/trombone/tenor sax horn section with the CX 12, and then had me improvise fills behind/under the tenor sax solo. I get a good sound but have limited facility, so I had to get the chart ahead of time in order to practice the melody and work on playing through the changes. Still haven’t heard the final product on that one……..
As a trombone player, I am predisposed to like the Seydel 1847 the most because they feel free-blowing and open – I have tried a bunch of other stuff though, and I am starting to appreciate the different sounds and flavors you can get out of other harps, so I’m trying to learn to adjust to other blowing feels. I am more or less completely obsessed with my C harps, and recently decided to force myself to spend some practice time every day playing at least 3 other keys; I feel like I will learn a ton by forcing myself to learn how to make the other keys sound good as well. So far, the only blow-out casualty of my beginner phase has been the 3-blow on the Solist Pro which is now pretty flat -- I’m think it’s from trying to get it to overblow – for some odd reason the 3-blow was the first place that I was able to get an overblow to sound, and I do remember playing it over and over trying to get it to happen more easily.
The weird thing going from trombone to harp is that although the volume of air used for harmonica is very different, the concept that works to get a great trombone sound -- warm, focused but relaxed airstream -- also works to get a great acoustic harmonica sound. Of course, getting a great sound all the time is a challenge not matter what the instrument, and I have spent my entire musical life working toward that goal.
That’s my story, in case anyone is interested………..
I played baritone when I was a kid (there are actually a bunch of low brass and former low brass players on the forum). I also sang in choir. The hardest adjustment (actual adjustment, not learning new things from scratch) was the breathing pattern. Singing or playing baritone all you had to think about was when the best time to sneak a big breath is. On harp if you've got a long string of draw notes coming up that's exactly the wrong thing to do. Managing airflow in both directions to some getting used to. :)
@ Nate Ha Ha -- yeah that's for sure ! I was playing duets with a friend, me on harmonica, him on tuba, and the piece started with me playing a phrase that started with a long draw note. Of course, being a trombone player, I counted it off, took a nice big breath, and........
Mark Lavoie used to sell upgraded combs for the MS series until very recently that came in two configurations: one made of titanium (by far, IMO, the best metal comb I've ever used and I'm not a fan of them) and another that was made of fully sealed maple. He's no longer making them as far as I know and you may want to contact him thru his site http://www.middlebury.met/lavoie to find out if he has some left. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I was going to post something, but then I remembered one of my absolute truths of harmonicas. Nate knows the one. You might want to check out the optimized 1847s on my page, they are flatsanded for an extra $7. On your others, just enjoy them. Do what you want with them. They are yours... Be happy. There's another of my maxims about harmonicas being like pets. What kind of pets are these harps? What/when will end of life be? Are they work horses or show ferrets you'll want to keep forever and will send off to a vet to get it nursed back to health? Or are they like hamsters you'll bury in a backyard funeral with mourning children? Or are they like goldfish you'll flush down the porcelain throne and buy an identical fish to sneak in the bowl before the kids get home from school?
If it's a work horse/show ferret call up Randy or somebody and get the badassiest comb you can find. If it's a hamster.. Maybe. Goldfish? Just enjoy it.
Btw... I had a ferret when I was a kid, played a lot of harp with him (his name was Verne). Moon cat also had one.
Last Edited by on Apr 19, 2012 1:26 PM
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Last Edited by on Apr 19, 2012 1:36 PM
