I've been wanting to lip purse for some time now. Every attempt has been hampered by a couple of chipped teeth at the front irritating the inside of my mouth. Finally, I've got the chips ground down. The dentist looked at me funny when I told him I was a harmonica player, but was happy to do the work.
Great! No discomfort.
I never realised quite how much work lip pursing is though. You actually have to develop an embouchure like a real brass or woodwind instrument. My mouth feels like I've been lifting weights with it.
Question to anyone else who've made the switch: How long does it take to get good tone, and more importantly, how long is the 'pain' period?
Kudos to the lip pursers among you. I never knew how much work it is.
Kudos to you Stevelegh for giving it a shot. I myself am a purser thats just starting to add more TBing into what I play. Knowing both is great.
Other pursers may not agree, but I've tried to copy the pursing style of Jason and Christelle. There really is no pucker/kiss shaping to the embouchure. Matter of fact the lip muscles are barely used.
Imagine you are very relaxed and starting to fall asleep. When the mouth falls open just enough, simply put the harp in without changing shape. Tilt the harp up a little and keep everything relaxed with open mouth and throat for big tone.
If you are doing it correctly you are lip blocking and should be able to go from 2 draw single note to 1,2,3 draw chord with only the slightest of movement.
The throat does pretty much all the work with this method...bends OBs growls vibrato whatever.
Notice in this video that the lips don't change position. The throat does the work. Yes, the cheeks DO puff out and in with air. They will naturally if they are relaxed as they should be.
Agree fully and completely with harpdude. I will only add that tightening the embouchure is some times a good effect to cause tension by thinning the tone. It's important to work on being able to control the full range of tones at your disposal, from thick to thin.
By the way, I've always found it interesting that, at least with LP, it actually takes MORE effort/strain to get thin tone than it does to get big tone. I think it's mainly a psychological hurdle people have in that most people (including me, early on) believe that "better" tone should take MORE effort, so we tighten everything up and try REALLY hard... But of course, that only results in everything getting pinched out and thin! ---------- == I S A A C ==
I remember having that problem when I first started(it was due to incorrectly formed embouchure, as I'll explain). It took me awhile to build up the strength and endurance in my mouth. And if I stopped practicing for awhile, I'd have that the same problem when playing for an extended period, and it would take a few days of practice to get my mouth back in shape.
But to be honest, if you form the embouchure correctly, there's really no need to be having this problem in the first place. It's being caused from incorrectly formed (imho) LP embouchure. The reason that I use to (and you currently) have problems with mouth fatigue, was due to actually pursing my lips to much. I think that "lip pursing" is a poor description of the embouchure (at least when it's done properly.
It's going to be difficult for me to describe without actually showing you, but I'll give it a try. When form the LP embouchure "correctly", you really shouldn't be pursing your lips. Start by forming your mouth into the shape you use for you tongue blocking embouchure (you shouldn't have the harp in your mouth) and don't worry about putting your tongue in the position for tongue blocking, right now we're just concentrating on the actual shape of the mouth. Right now your mouth should be in the shape of a large oval laying horizontally (this is the shape your mouth would be in for playing a big chord on the harmonica). There shouldn't really be any tension in your mouth.
Now what you should do is slightly bring in the corners of your mouth and drop your jaw a bit so that your mouth now forms a large vertical oval (it should look like this: 0 ). Imagine someone singing in a choir, and they're singing a big, loud, long note. That's the sort of mouth shape you should have when "lip pursing". Your mouth shouldn't have anymore tension in it than when you form your TB embouchure, so there should be no problem with mouth fatigue.
Now you may be wondering how you could possibly play single notes when your mouth is in such a large wide open positon (I know many people are surprised when I pull the harp away from my mouth and show them how wide open my mouth is, and they always ask how I could possibly play single notes). All you have to do to play sinlge notes with your mouth formed in this wide open (relaxed) embouchure, is simply tilt your harp when it's in your mouth. When you tilt the harp you bring the back of the harp up, and the front of the harp (ie. the side that goes in your mouth) gets tilted down towards your lower lip. You may have to play around to find the best angle to tilt the harp in order to get a clear single note.
Forming your embouchure in this way will not only help with the problem of mouth fatigue, but it will also definately help in improving your tone while "LP"(of course that is just one factor in creating good tone, imho the most important thing is to create a large resonant cavity by playing with a wide open throat). As you can see, you're not really "pursing" your lips, instead your forming you mouth into a giant "0", which is why I think the term "lip pursing" is a terrible way to describe the embouchure. The term "lip pursing" makes you think that your lips should be pursed up into a small circle like when your whistling, which simply isn't the case.
I hope this helped some. It would be so much easier and more effective to just show you in person, instead trying to describe it on a forum.
Last Edited by on Mar 13, 2012 3:25 PM
I got this immediately! I'm using a bit more spit to wet the harp and I'm still a little tense in my bottom lip, but I appreciate it's very new to me. I'll relax soon enough.
One thing I've noticed straight away is speed. It's so much faster. I feel like I've had a 'harp' transplant!
24 years of playing harp. The 'old dog' has learned the best new trick in years.
i started out LP and now incorporate TBs because i love the rhythmic slaps, octaves, and how you can leap seamlessly up and down the harp incorporating chords and single notes legato.
i love both techniques, but my TB bends are weak sometimes so i go w/ what i do best in that situation. ----------
MP doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
yeah I started doing some tongue blocking recently I started pursing as it was more natural for me. I have played saxophone since grade school so it seemed like the only way.
I have a lot of problems nailing huge tongue blocked bends they sound breathy. but the opening up of all the rythmic tongue work has made a massive difference in my playing.
I feel just one or the other is limiting because both have their perks
I have been LPing since the beginning almost three years ago. A few weeks ago, my teacher started me into TBing. I have been working on that exclusively since then.
I love it, but I need a lot more woodshedding to get there.
My only observation here is that I think people overcomplicate it. LP is playing out of the center of your mouth while TBing is playing out the side - either right or left. That's as much detail as you need to get started.
Sure you will be using different parts of your muscles buy it will all sort itself out. That's what your brain is for. The tongue is a funny organ in that it has remarkable crossover between voluntary activity and involuntary activity (like preventing your from choking).
It's all about moving air in and out of your mouth. I have found that not thinking about all the details was the most helpful thing I could do.
Another thing. The only thing guaranteed here is that if you TB single notes and learn LPing or if you LP single notes and learn to TB them, your playing will improve significantly either way. You can argue pros and cons of either embouchure, but I doubt anyone can argue against that point.
Really great posts! I agree with REM. Pursing is not the best descriptive word for the process. Some people cannot believe how deeply the harp is in my mouth. It takes time to learn to relax the jaw, cheek, lips, and other facial muscles....even the neck. AS BBQ Bob says, your whole self should be as relaxed as possible.
MP...I can play the heck out of splits now, but I too have trouble with side TB bends. Funny, when I purse bending is as easy as not bending. I hope I get better because TBing is a lot of fun and the effects are fantastic.
Couple more points. I believe that tilting the harp is an ergonomic thing. Tilt both ways and listen. It is basic physics that the centerline of the hole you are playing should be aimed at the center of the air source,the throat, to get the most control with the least amount of force.
I also believe this is the method to use if you want strong overblows and overdraws. Do it with the throat and don't think "pop". Just redirect the airflow gently off the roof of your mouth. The correct throat position will cause the tongue to arch as well.
For the top 3 holes many on here say tighten up to get those blow bends and/or squeeze the jaw shut. I disagree. Once the throat technique is learned, blow bending those 1/2 steps is no problem, even on high harps. Going between the 3 notes of the 10 blow with good tone and vibrato is much easier. If you do the squeeze/tighten method you are shrinking the resonance chamber and changing tone as well as pitch.
All this is why many players like Jason and Carlos can move quickly between blow, draw, blow bends, draw bends, overblows, overdraws, etc...They are not reshaping the mouth or lips, just staying relaxed and letting the throat do the majority of the work.
I do not tilt the harp, it's horizontal aligned without any tilt. It's fine for me, I never needed to tilt the harp in either way. But I agree with you, harpdude. The throat is the key, the lips don't have to be reshaped.
i dunno if i'm telling you anything really. i bend all draw notes tongue blocked..i still tend to pull the 6 draw down too far though. its harder on higher pitches because the movement is so much less. i'm just starting to be able to bend 8 blow tongue blocked, but i'm not really very good at blow bends yet. seems to be progressive though..as the embouchure strengthens i can do a bit more what do i mean about it all being about the tongue? its about how much you hump up your tongue, and what part of your tongue you hump up...what part of the tongue you have to move. its where the constriction happens in your mouth, between the tongue and soft pallet. for 6 draw it is nearer the front, for 4 draw further back. Dave Barrett is great at teaching this...if you were doing 6 draw its like saying "Kee" or "Hee", for 4 draw more like "Ku" or "Hu" i think Jerry Portnoy also talks about i this way..sorry cant remember...Jerry is very much about how playing is like learning to speak a language, in the physical practical sense of how you use your vocalising equipment..i know for tongue flutters it really helps me to think "lalalalalala" to get a smooth rolling flutter... but tongue block bending...yeah, wher it becam interesting for me was in sliding from say 2 draw bent to unbent in a single breath...so controlling the tongue movement so it was a smooth transition. kind of rolling the tongue hump against the roof of the mouth. maybe it helps to think about lowering or raising the tip of the tongue and being aware of what else is going on when you do that. developing awareness of how your tongue moves and really taking control of it. its not lke you can just do it straight away...at least i couldnt...like any movement it takes training to get it...just like a throat tremelo/vibrato..as explained by adam...at first its jerky and wont quite do what you want, but with tenacity you get there... yeah sorry i know you know all that about the training...anyway i hope maybe theres something in there that may be useful
Last Edited by on Mar 14, 2012 6:27 AM
Thanks SuperBee......maybe I'm trying to bend with my throat while tongue blocked, as I do pursed. I'll experiment with reshaping the tongue for TB bends.
A quick TB question....say you are bending the 3 draw a 1/2 step or even a step with the 1 and 2 hole blocked...can you lift the tongue on and off the 1 and 2 holes and still maintain the bent pitch on hole 3 the whole time?.... even if you do it slowly? say a couple seconds at a time off and on...Thanks.
If your experiencing fatigue regardless of embouchure it probably is a direct result of being tense - "for whatever reason" ex: (many times learning a new song will cause tenseness)...Untill we can learn to relax when playing>> fatigue, being out of breathe, poor dynamics etc, is going to be an ongoing issue.
I have to disagree with SuperBee. TB bending can be done with the throat. Like SuperBee, I had to do a lot of tongue gymnastics at first, but once I dialed in the bends the tongue relaxed, and the throat took over most of the work. At least that is my experience.
There is some really good advice above, BTW. harpdude61's advice about overbends is really good -- i.e. stop thinking about "popping" them. ----------
Last Edited by on Mar 14, 2012 8:51 AM
Yeah tricky one this. I guess it will be different for each player.
I feel my tongue move when bending but it's not a big movement. It feels like the whole mouth, throat, tongue are in play to varying degrees.
I sense my tongue does a fair bit of work in shaping very accurate bends (or as accurate as I can make them)
Do 'throat benders' sense more or less tongue in play when playing a 6 draw bend as opposed to lower bends.
Also try this:- try playing a low draw bend with your tongue placed out of your mouth and under the lower cover plate. I can bend hole 1 a half step but am still aware of lower tongue movement. Then try holes 2 & 3, these were harder for me and I could only get partial bends and could still feel the tongue moving. ---------- Grey Owl YouTube Grey Owl Abstract Photos
Upper lip spread deep, wide and relaxed on top cover. Under lip relaxed on under cover, with a slight "groove" formed just under the hole. Root of the tone deep back in the throat where you also control the vibrato and bends, with à some positioning of the tounge to set OB/OD. ---------- The tone, the tone ... and the tone.
Interesting question and experiment from greyowl! I gave it a try, and I can confirm for sure that I can do all draw bends (from 1-6) without moving the front 3/4 of the tongue. The bends come from the part of the tongue that is way way back down in my throat, and the tip and middle sections (the sections that are actually in my mouth) don't move at all. I DO sometimes use these portions of the tongue to add "flavor" to my draw bends, especially articulations. I also use jaw movement in this regard, especially to add a bit of pitch vibrato.
Now, for ME, blow bends are totally different. They are absolutely coming from the middle section of my tongue. I also experience lip fatigue WAY faster when playing up high on the harp with blow bends. This is something I clearly need to work on (although I rarely play bends up there).
Overblows, for me, are coming from movement in the "middle rear" part of my tongue. That is, the rearmost part of my tongue that is still actually in my mouth... I think I used to do overblows from a part of my tongue closer to the front of my mouth, and I definitely remember experiencing lip fatigue back then, but now I can overblow all day with no problem.
This is really quite interesting! If my experiences are typical, it seems that bending from the front of the tongue may be a significant source of lip fatigue!
Thanks for trying that Isaac, you seem to have acheived more success than I did on bending holes with the tongue out btw.
The overblow question is an interesting one Isaac. For me the tongue definitely comes into use here. The tip of my tongue lightly touches my lower teeth then I arch up the front to middle part of my tongue.
This creates a narrow pocket in the roof of my mouth so that the blown air reaching this pocket gets compressed in this small space and the pressurised air chokes the blow reed allowing th overblow to sound the draw reed.
To test the amount of tongue movement here try blowing a repeated fast series of overblow, blow, overblow, blow etc., I feel my tongue going up and down noticeably. ---------- Grey Owl YouTube Grey Owl Abstract Photos
Grey and Isaac..I understand what you mean about the tongue. I feel that the shaping of my throat cause my tongue to go where it needs. Can't move the throat without the tongue tagging along.
With TB flutters I feel I'm using the muscles in the tongue, but bending of any type pursed I feel no tongue muscle being used....just moving cuz of the throat. Great discussion!
.. You can call it your throat if you want,. the tongue is a mighty big lump of muscle. Its not just the flappy bit in your mouth. The important thing is to develop awareness and control of your tongue. That's the thing that has the most action and takes up the space in the cavity (including your throat) ergo it has the greatest impact on your sound. Yep, a lot of the time you feel that action driven in your throat. Its all about your tongue.
If you TB you can get the holes of the harp into your mouth past your top and bottom teeth which provides a large unobstructed oral resonance chamber. If you LP, TILTING allows the holes of the harp into your mouth past the top teeth.
TBing puts the tongue high in the mouth. LPing allows the tongue to remain on the floor of the mouth if you bend with the "throat", which is actually the root of the tongue that is so far back it feels like it's your throat.
Personally, i only consciously sub-vocalize vowel sounds to separate the three 3 hole bends.
I fear we are taking the OP off-topic here by discussing TB bending and throat vs. tongue bending. But never-the-less... my TB bending is coming from way back in the mouth whether that be throat or root of tongue, and my tongue is now relaxed, as opposed to when I first started TB bending. And the bend is initiated by the throat, not the tongue.
To answer Greyowl's questions: 6d bend uses no more tongue action than the lower hole draw bends. The blow bends for me (now) are much like overblows, they are initiated by developing "back pressure", which comes from the throat. I may be setting a shape for my tongue unconsciously before I initiate the blow bends (and overblows) but my tongue is relaxed. When going from 6b to 6ob repeatedly, I maybe feel a slight tongue movement way at the back of my tongue, as I develop the back pressure. I'm not saying my technique is best, but it's working well for me.
@arzajac Who is your harp teacher? A Canadian? ----------
Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2012 9:38 AM
Learning a new embouchure involves a new set of muscles that are going to need trained and developed in order to contribute to the demands of music without becoming prematurely fatigued.
I'm with Mr. So&So, I do a drill that goes form 6 blow to 6 draw bent to 6 draw to 6 overblow, up and down. The more you can do this with the throat, the smoother, cleaner, faster you can go. The Adam's Apple goes up and down. Down for 6 blow, up for 6 draw bent, down for 6 draw and up for 6 ob. This action causes the arc of the tongue to change, but the tip stays against the bottom teeth.
@harpdude61 Yes, I get exactly the same Adam's apple movements you describe, when doing everything TB (of course, my tongue stays on the harp). ----------
Stevelegh...Sorry we sorta highjacked your thread, but several people brought up points I don't think I have read about before on the forum.
The more info that we gather, whether we agree or not, gives us more to experiment with to find out what works best for each of us.
My TB question from above did not get answered. I was serious because side TBing is very new to me. I'll paste again. It may sound dumb but I really don't know and don't want to waste time if it is not something TBers do.
A quick TB question....say you are bending the 3 draw a 1/2 step or even a step with the 1 and 2 hole blocked...can you lift the tongue on and off the 1 and 2 holes and still maintain the bent pitch on hole 3 the whole time?.... even if you do it slowly? say a couple seconds at a time off and on...Thanks.
I don't want to say its impossible, but I can't see how it wouldn't also effect the other notes. I just tried playing that. There are more spectacular ways to make unpleasant noise. If you are making the changes which cause the note to bend in your throat, this should be quite feasible. If the bend is reliant on the tongues position as it lays in the oral cavity, relevant to the soft palette, I think it would be much trickier, as you would have to maintain all that relativity as you moved your tongue about. Does that seem logical? Complicated by sudden changes in airflow as you move from 1 to 3 holes. I can't do it. I can make a change to the tone of the 3 holes all at once, but it's not musical
Last Edited by on Mar 16, 2012 12:00 AM
Mate, it's been great reading this stuff. I'm happy for the hijack. We're all learning.
I don't know how this works for anyone else and I'm not boned up enough on theory to describe it better, but if I bend down a half step on 3 draw, then open up 1 and 2, I get the chord. If I put my tongue on and off, but hold the position, I'm straight back on the 3 draw 1/2 step bend.
Thanks mr_so&so for trying that out and your observations. I don't play tongue block but I am interested in trying it out and using it if possible to compliment my LP, a bit like Steve but the other way round.
I can do that exercise TB as Harpdude suggested (don't use that move even LP in my playing on bent 3 to the chord, so that's interesting) and it worked out ok like Steve's description. Also the Adam's apple thing was the same as described.
Tried overbend TB on 9 and it kind of worked but I could feel the part of my tongue that wasn't resting on the harp working to produce the bend.
I'm interested in how folks do the overblow TB. I'm nowhere close to gettting that - only a rush of unpressurised/ unfocused air.
Playing them LP is a doddle now and as I said above my tongue seems to assist in creating the necessary pressure. With my tongue laying on the harp TB I can't find a way of creating the pressure. Any ideas? ---------- Grey Owl YouTube Grey Owl Abstract Photos
Last Edited by on Mar 16, 2012 7:34 AM
TB OB's are interesting for me. When I started to work out what I was doing, I discovered that I was making a tighter embouchure than normal, making two holes and poking my tongue in the left one for reference. I feel a little specious by saying I TB OB, but I can do it, it's just that playing naturally TB'ed, I tend to subconsciously use the poke method. I think I do this for reference more than anything and as a bit of a 'security blanket'.
The reason for wanting to lip purse is to develop some speed. I've never really acquired any real speed runs in my playing and whenever I've tied, I've felt that TB creates friction. I'm playing LP exclusively at the moment to develop my tone and ability, but if I had to play on stage right now, I'd play TB. My hope is to become equally proficient in both styles and switch from one to the other.
Here is a little trick that may help - Do your bend using a LB and notice how its being accomplished and then use those same muscles while trying to TB a bend...In other words use your LB technique for bends as a guide to get your TB bend.
I'm like greyowl..an OB or an OD is just like another bend when I purse (we gotta come up with a better term, maybe lip blocker) Doing it TBed just seems impossible....but why not if you can blow and draw bend with either method.
Most of you guys are probably better overbenders than I am. I play Big Rivers mostly and just gap them, so they are probably not ideal for overblows, but I have a few that work well and I'm getting better at gapping now. I started lip blocking and switched to full-time TB about two years ago now, like Stevelegh in reverse. I could do all the bends and was starting to get consistent overblow lip blocking. All I can say is that it took that commitment to give full-time TBing a go, otherwise I would have kept going back to what was easiest. It took over a year before I started relax in the TB embouchure and let the throat do the work. At that point I was able to get the 6ob TBing, and the feeling is the same as doing it lip-blocked in terms of how pressure is built up in the back of the throat. I suspect that most of you lip blockers who can overbend well will be able to do it tongue blocked pretty easily once you get more comfortable with the TB embouchure. That part took me some time and patience.
BTW, like the others who tried harpdude61's test, I lose the bend when I lift my tongue to get the chord and then get it back when I slap back down.
I think it is great, BTW, that we can share info and learn from each other like this. ----------
Gents, while the chat is all about technique, which is the best key to practice on for over blows? Which is the best hole to start on? Ive never really been very interested but seems everyone is doing it now, I better see if I can get with it. I believe I have to gap the harp especially? I just got a bunch of new harps so I'm in a position to try setting one up, is a manji or crossover best? Or best to practice on an old sp20 or such?
I agree some great info here thanks for the above feedback.
Funny Steve started with TB to LP, now LP's are asking tips on TB. A very helpful and insightful thread this is and not the usual futile LB Vs TB argument.
And so for another TB question. I am laying my tongue side-on on the holes I want to block (for me I direct my tongue to the right of the hole I want to play) I don't feel as if I'm exerting too much pressure with my tongue and yet I'm conscious of the comb edges rubbing against my tongue - worse on MB and metal combs. Is this something you just get used to or do you build up a massive callous on the side of your tongue the equivalent of guitar players fingertips? :) ---------- Grey Owl YouTube Grey Owl Abstract Photos
SuperBee For me a C thru to A harp worked fine and a special 20 is not bad at all. I now know how to gap reeds so that the overblow sounds easily and the blow reed does not choke and stall on my normal attack and that has made a big difference.
As others have mentioned before. The 1st move is to gently nudge the blow reed closer to the underside of the reed plate but not so far that it will stall on your normal blow (if it does just nudge it back a little). The draw reed (the reed that will sound the overblow) is not so crucial but if the gap is too large between the reed and the red plate then OB's might be difficult.
Hole 6 worked well for me when I finally got it. 5 was a bit trickier and 4 not bad.
For LP's I found trying a drawbend on 6, hold that shape feel the air you've drawn in your mouth then push that air back into the hole on a blow without changing your mouth shape.
You might get a squeal if your lucky which is a note higher in pitch than the normal blow note on that hole - and that is the overblow. It then gets better with practice and becomes just another note. A bit like the draw bends on 3, tricky to start with, then automatic.
I agree with Greyowl...another suggestion that has worked for some is to bounce the airflow off the roof of the mouth to get the OB...no more pressure or tightening is required. Throat shape, airflow direction, and harp set up is key.
It does take awhile to get the sound and a very long time to work OBs into your play. I'm finally to a point after tons of practice that I can use 1,4,5,6 ob and 7,9 od on any key Golden Melody and bend most of those up. Gapping means a lot but technique means even more.
You guys have me more excited than ever to work on my TBing. I just need to do like Mr. So and So and commit fully. Just because someone is an experienced or even adavnced player does not mean that a new technique should come easy. Old habits are embedded. Kudos Mr. So and So!
Agreed, one of the best instructional threads in awhile. Not a contest, but a great learning experience for different style players.
With tongue blocking, I spent some time on david Barrett's lessons. I don't regret it. I found them really well designed, very sound and progressive. Thanks for the ob tips, I'll work on Setting a harp up and start annoying everyone a bit more
@SuperBee 6ob can often be played on an OTB harp once you know the mechanics of it. It's the other ones that generally need the harp to be set up carefully. I find that low harps, low F, G, A are easiest for me on the 6ob, which is pretty much all I do now. I think I'll need better and better-set-up harps before I go much further with overbends.
For you guys who are interested in more TBing, my experience was that when I first started to TB full time, I was pretty awkward. Techniques that required tongue movements (e.g. switching sides to play the 1 hole, flutters, etc.) seemed almost impossible. And I had to painstakingly re-learn all the bends. Draw bends were pretty easy; blow bends were pretty hard for me (but not harder than learning them lip-blocked). Once I could blow bend, I could overblow. I have no performance commitments, so I just keep at it. Eventually, it all became more fluid and relaxed. But I did have to really give it a chance. Now I am at a point where I could start to incorporate LP stuff back into my playing, but so far I like the TB embouchure better. I still can't do blow bends on higher key harps in TB and I don't do enough overbends to know if there are limits to TB there. So I will switch to LP for some stuff. When I get some better harps I'll find out what the real limits of TB are. Actually Joe Spiers is a tongue blocker and I think he does everything that way on his great harps. Maybe he will comment.
Stevelegh commented about wanting to play faster licks and TB being slower. I always found that my lips stuck to the harp more when lip blocking than they do TBing. I don't find much difference in speed between the two, and TBing allows for pretty big jumps by tongue switching. I'm not a speed player though, so can't comment too much on that. I do find that I tend to play more spits and octaves and chordal techniques when I stick to TB than I ever did when lip blocking, maybe because it is easier TBing (maybe because I'm just improving as a player). I personally like that style of playing more than single-note playing anyway. ----------
