Destin
2 posts
Jan 24, 2012
7:26 PM
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It seems that Adam uses natural dynamics in his playing , he blows softer during the verse and blows harder during the solo to get louder, but a lot of harp players use volume knobs, are they really necessary?
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shadoe42
115 posts
Jan 24, 2012
8:00 PM
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I use both. sort of :) I have my harp run thru my pedals and I use the volume pedal as a mute so the sound guy(when we have one) doesn;t have to remember or we don;t end up with an open mic just sitting on the stage. Pedal goes to full when I play and then I use playing dynamics during the actual play.
While I certainly do not think one should NOT use the pedal for dynamics and I could probably come up with a way you might want to use it for effect I would lean toward having dynamics in your playing as much better.
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electricwitness
17 posts
Jan 24, 2012
8:57 PM
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I use both... natural dynamics are essential, but I find a volume knob gives me extra creative options. I also use my volume knob in situations where the volume level is high (like at a jam that gets crazy etc.) to roll back the volume between phrases to stop feedback. I played for years with no volume control but I love it now, and miss it on my mics without it. You can do some cool things with a volume knob and a delay too. :) I have also added a kill switch to my bullet for even more fun.
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Greg Heumann
1440 posts
Jan 24, 2012
9:20 PM
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I certainly use both. There are times when the dynamic range I need to both be heard during solos and be supportive through a quiet passage is bigger than what I can attain with dynamics alone. And I can play very softly. As there are no drawbacks to good volume controls, the question is ?why not?
Also - sometimes conditions change in a room. All of a sudden you hear feedback creeping in from somewhere. Wasn't there before. Is it you? The volume control will tell you. Turn it down. If it was you, feedback stops, problems solved. If it doesn't affect it, well... at least you know it isn't you!
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/Greg
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nacoran
5137 posts
Jan 24, 2012
10:09 PM
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There are also times when the guitar player is too loud. If they see you turning up your amp they'll turn up. You can be sneaky with a volume control!
I actually don't have a mic with a volume control, but it would be real handy. I've got a low low F that is pretty quiet. It needs more boost. We played a show a couple weeks ago where there sound guy was also the barista (and the owner I think). We couldn't get level changes during the show and we were plugged into the PA so I didn't have any control beyond dynamics and the LLF just couldn't cut through.
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SuperBee
61 posts
Jan 25, 2012
12:23 AM
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yep, what Greg said.
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Leatherlips
23 posts
Jan 25, 2012
12:33 AM
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Nice to have a volume control as well as using dynamics as I find when I change harps, the volume appears to go up or down depending on the key of the harp. Generally, the higher the key, the louder it will sound.
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billy_shines
59 posts
Jan 25, 2012
9:32 AM
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i found a volume pots cuts some of the balls off the mic. i let someone set the levels for the vocal and harp mic ( i sing through a sure undyne) i say check and yeah do a few james brown grunts then put the harp right up to the mic and count to 30 if it doesnt feedback in 30 secs its too low. then im done i lay back hand effects if i cant hear i stick my finger in my ear. as long as i can hear me thats all that matters. when i sing i cup my hand around the mic and i cup the mic blowin my ride which is never longer than 30 seconds. if theres a soundman and monitors even better thats what his job is. but as far as fighting with guitar players on stage im too old for that now. finger in my ear i can hear my internal sound la la la i cant hear you la la.
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Greg Heumann
1443 posts
Jan 25, 2012
12:45 PM
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"i found a volume pots cuts some of the balls off the mic" -
ANY volume control decreases the load impedance that the element sees, which is another way of saying it increases the load on the element - and that can indeed rob some tone. The effect is more noticeable with crystal mics than dynamic ones because they are much higher impedance. However if a volume control is properly matched to the element in the first place, the effect can be minimized. A good volume control should not affect your tone in any meaningful way.
I just serviced a JT30 with an MC-127 element in it. Someone installed a volume control with a 50K pot. That is a HUGE mismatch and really destroyed the tone of that mic. It SHOULD have had a 1M or 5Mohm pot - that's 100x higher.
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/Greg
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2012 12:48 PM
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billy_shines
61 posts
Jan 25, 2012
1:06 PM
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ive tried even 10k pots i hate them maybe its just me. but i also take pots off electric guitars and plug em in straight to the pickup. i like the sound lol.but yeah you dont want any pot on a ceramic or crystal mic.
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MP
1969 posts
Jan 25, 2012
1:29 PM
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BBQ BOB uses 1 or 5 meg pots with his crystal JT-30s.
i used to own a Kevins Harps JT-30 w/ a VC and it was okay.
i use a brush crystal (best element i've ever heard and louder than most CRs) in my Astatic Biscuit. i don't like a VC to interfere with its wonderful tone.
i will use a BlowsMeAway in-line VC on my Dave Kott CR Biscuit or my Mojokane CR Astatic 200 chop.
i'll run the VC pretty much open ( about 3/4s up). then jack it to full bore when i need it louder. any lower than 3/4 volume and the tone starts to be affected.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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rbeetsme
596 posts
Jan 25, 2012
7:09 PM
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Don't forget that the volume control can also control the gain. Turn your amp up, the volume knob (gain) down, clean tone. Turn the gain up (volume knob) and amp volume down and get more grit. I have a couple of mics with hot elements that are just plan nasty through smaller low watt amps. But if I attach one of Gregs' volume controls I can adjust the gain down and clean up the tone.
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2012 7:12 PM
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jbone
748 posts
Jan 26, 2012
4:44 AM
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acoustic tone is #1. all else follows. in fact a lot of times cupping a mic will impede your ability to get hand effects, and this is when your basic from-the-heart tone is crucial. an amp and mic combo is nice and it has its place esp when you come across that winning combo, but from a street musician's standpoint- who plays with no battery amps, bull horns, or anything but lung power, tone is more important than volume. on the street people can see you playing often before tney hear you. we've had people drop their window and throw $$ to us as well as drive around the block and find a parking spot sao they could walk over. once they are close the tone is what will keep them close.
in a band setting it's often a good thing to be able to punch volume up for leads and back down for comps/fills/accents, and this is when a volume knob on a mic, or a pedal, is important. if you play with guys like i've played with, you end up playing at past the feedback threshold, where a mic at rest WILL feed back while a mic in use will not. this is when a volume control will save your spot with a band or on stage.
so it's simple: use acoustic tone first and foremost, then use mic/amp/volume control after you reach a point where your tone is good. there are times you MUST be amped ie to get just over the ambient volume in a club full of happy hour revelers.
it's like a firearm. i'd rather have one and not need it....
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boris_plotnikov
683 posts
Jan 26, 2012
5:45 AM
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I use both. Volume knob is for general dynamics (for whole song or part of the song, e.g. comping/soloing), playing dynamcs for different dynamics inside parts
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billy_shines
66 posts
Jan 26, 2012
6:16 AM
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you need a very small mic that fits in your hands for hand effects, im thinking a guitar volume pedal would work.
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barbequebob
1805 posts
Jan 26, 2012
9:49 AM
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Most of the time, I use breath control more than anything else, something most players NEVER learn, but when using JT30's with crystals, they do get affected by room temperature, body heat and moisture, I ctaully set the VC at 3/4ths of the way up and when the mic volume drops because of those reasons, I turn the VC up and down as needed. In addition, because of the capacitor behind those pots, I can also turn the volume down and not lose the mids and lower highs and much lower volumes, like if I use a Pro Jr and even that may be too loud and can get it to the volume of an old Champ and yet have it sound like it is fully cranked.
Acoustic tone is the #1 thing, first and foremost and too many players ignore it and they sound like it.
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Boston, MA
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hvyj
2073 posts
Jan 26, 2012
10:00 AM
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FWIW, I think it is easier to control volume with breath technique if you are playing into the PA than if you are using an amp. The integral VC on my 545 Ultimate does not degrade the tone at all.
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wolfkristiansen
99 posts
Jan 26, 2012
11:19 AM
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Don't think I've seen anyone say this yet: Controlling dynamics with just your breath gives a wonderful immediacy to your playing. You can go from loud to soft, or vice versa, in a split second; faster than it takes you to reach for the volume knob and turn it. That's why I prefer to play without using a volume knob.
Having said that, I do have a volume knob attached to or in the shell of most of my microphones. It's great (as many said) to have some "wriggle room" (i.e. be able to turn up) if needed, especially if your main volume is at the mercy of a P.A. soundman.
Cheers,
wolf kristiansen
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MP
1972 posts
Jan 26, 2012
11:34 AM
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wolf,
yeah, i prefer no VC because of the reason you stated.
i started playing w/out VCs. the first time i saw one on a mic was a JT-30 charlie musselwhite gave to a friend of mine. it was a clunky thing made by Switchcraft. i have a DI box i gutted so it only does one thing- it turns my mic on or off so i don't have to sneak up on my amp. kim wilson used to use a similar box called-i kid you not- 'Zeus'
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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Greg Heumann
1444 posts
Jan 26, 2012
11:46 AM
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Billy - 10K is way wrong for ANY high impedance mic. For dynamic, CR, CM, 100K or 250K is ideal. 10K will surely cramp an element's style in a big way.
For crystal elements, 1Mohm or higher.
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/Greg
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MP
1974 posts
Jan 26, 2012
12:17 PM
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hey gregg,
is there any advantage to useing 100K rather than 250K on a CR,CM etc? something that would make one preferable to the other?
the reason i ask is because of the 150K difference. it seems like a lot but i'm pretty ignorant about these kind of measurement values.
OT btw MojoKane uses an EV 920 mod you did for him almost every wed. night. cool mic. looks like you could smoke herb in it.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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billy_shines
69 posts
Jan 26, 2012
3:46 PM
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i only use an amp with me and another guitar player. or if i need the vocal effect for suzy q. with a band i use a dynamic whatever they have at open mic or my shure unidyne. i cant sing and play with two mikes i cant switch fast enough. usually the host of the jam freaks out because harp players always eat the mike and give that shrill sound that sticks a pencil in everyones ears. i tell them i lay back and i dont need a monitor some cotton in my ears i can hear myself fine. sonny boy style lots of hand effects. i only eat the mic for my 30 seconds of fame on my ride. tootling ala blues travler to me is annoying i think it gets old with the audience too. less flash save your best tricks for the end. i should be a country player i even play slide in my lap.
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Greg Heumann
1447 posts
Jan 26, 2012
9:23 PM
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@MP - there is a very slight advantage to using 250K over 100K for MOST CR's and CM's - you'll get a little more output. But if an element is TOO hot - going in the other direction (100K or maybe less) can help.
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/Greg
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MP
1979 posts
Jan 27, 2012
10:44 AM
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ahhhhh, thanks gregg!
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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Willspear
40 posts
Jan 27, 2012
10:48 PM
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I use the volume as a kill switch more than actual volume control. I set the mic just shy of max volume. Set the amp to just in feedback range. Then I back off just a hair on the mic vc. If I need it I can skate feedback while playing by a slight knob turn and turn down fast when finished soloing. When not playing for a bit I kill the vc on the mic to help prevent feedback from being careless
As was mentioned above a vc can be a boon if you start to feed back you can tweak easily on the fly.
I had several mica without volume pots and Greg's inline vc has helped tremendously
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bluzmn
57 posts
Jan 27, 2012
11:14 PM
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Most of my mics don't have a volume control; the only one that does is my Shure 520DX, but even with that I use breath to control the dynamics. What I do find that volume control useful for, though, is turning up the volume on my amp a little past the point where I usually get feedback and then backing off the volume a little on the mic; I can get some extra crunch that way. I would hate to drill holes in my vintage mics, though, and most of them don't have that Switchcraft connector to attach one of Greg's inline controls.
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