hohnerjones
26 posts
Jan 19, 2012
6:41 AM
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Ok, here's an observation I've made. I've been around awhile, played onstage at a few big events, well known at a lot of jams. But like Rodney Dangerfield, "I get no respect". I have a lot of acquaintances and make friends easily, but when I hang out at a festival, camping or a bar jam I feel like an outsider for one reason. I don't care to drink. It seems like you have to be a drinker to be accepted into the music world. I don't get it. And like I said, I'm not Gus, I know how and when to play and have been told often by guitar players that they enjoy jamming with me. But I see some beginner walk up, play a few sorry notes, pull out a bottle of Wild Turkey and suddenly he's in the inner circle! Sometimes I feel like a narc! I don't get this at Bluegrass events, many of those folks are gospel singers and church folks and I never see any alcohol. They make me feel welcome often, which I understand is a little rare for a harp player at a bluegrass fest. Any other tea-totallers feel like this? How's that old tune go?, "I got the alcohol blues."
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Steamrollin Stan
250 posts
Jan 19, 2012
6:52 AM
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Maybe, fill a bottle of wild turkey with cold tea, act a little drunk and see the reaction?
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2chops
61 posts
Jan 19, 2012
7:08 AM
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@ hohnerjones: I know how you feel. I don't drink either. Granted I do a gospel/blues thing and some jazz standards, so my crowd tends to be a little different at times. But I've noticed that when in mixed company, the attitude towards me is different. I think they think that I think I'm better than them. I hope that makes sense. But they do often keep a certain space between them & me. Try not to let it bug you. The problem is theirs not yours. Just do your bit, be yourself and so be it.
Ron
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12gagedan
154 posts
Jan 19, 2012
7:26 AM
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I've seen non-drinkers treated differently because of the attitudes they often project. Like the bad harmonica players who give us all a "bad name" perhaps the holier-than-thou non-drinkers have clouded the perceptions of the average jammer, such that a chill non-drinker gets lumped in.
or, they're self-medicating a-holes like me, who don't want to remind themselves that they drink too much. The non-drinker, then, for no fault of his own, becomes the mirror one does not want to look into.
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tookatooka
2648 posts
Jan 19, 2012
7:33 AM
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Im teetotal and never encountered that. Sure it's not something else?
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KingoBad
1022 posts
Jan 19, 2012
7:34 AM
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Sounds like you are a little uptight about it. Maybe you should have a drink...
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Danny
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HawkeyeKane
650 posts
Jan 19, 2012
8:01 AM
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@ hohnerjones
I myself do imbibe. But I can relate in another area that I hope no one here will take offense to or find politically incorrect: weed.
I've only hit it a very few times in my life. And every time, I've never done well on it. Just isn't something my body or mind takes kindly to, so I don't partake. But I sometimes still feel a slight undercurrent of a perception tokers have of me, like they think I'm uptight or pretentious. I've even had a couple people suspect me of being undercover fuzz.
It can be disheartening, but I hold to my own counsel on it. Especially when jamming or gigging, because booze can do enough to alter your playing state without throwing another factor into the mix.
In terms of liquor, I know another harp player here in my hometown who has long since put the plug in the jug for health reasons. He drinks nothing but club soda or water when he's out jamming. But as a result, his tone is always impeccable and his articulation is on the money. He's a mellow guy by nature, and his playing reflects his personality. I can't picture him playing any other way.
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Hawkeye Kane
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rbeetsme
581 posts
Jan 19, 2012
8:42 AM
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I think it's more of a comraderie thing. Old army buddies have it, guys who went to the same school, etc. I have a buddy I used to ride with and whenever we'd get together with others, no one had a clue what we were talking about!
Last Edited by on Jan 19, 2012 12:25 PM
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Greg Heumann
1432 posts
Jan 19, 2012
10:09 AM
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I don't think its the drink. Not where I jam. Being one of the guys requires getting to know the guys and giving them time to get comfortable with you. You can easily prove this by simply carrying a cup of club soda with you you bought at the bar. Have them put a splash of roses lime juice in it - makes it taste great and look more authentic. (This is the drink I punctuate my 2 beers a night with). Nobody knows whether there's alcohol in it.
Personally, I say do NOT act drunk and don't associate with people who do. There's a difference between someone having a beer or two and someone who drinks to excess.
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/Greg
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clamsharpplayer
138 posts
Jan 19, 2012
10:26 AM
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An obsrevation Ive made is that the good jammers are never drunk. Most of the seasoned musicians have probably learned their lesson long time ago.........
Last Edited by on Jan 19, 2012 10:27 AM
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kudzurunner
2934 posts
Jan 19, 2012
10:42 AM
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The hippest thing in blues contexts is actually to be a former drunk who now, older and wiser, knows enough not to drink. I second Greg's suggestion: drink publicly, but make sure it's not booze. And if and when anybody asks, just say, "Nah, I can't do that anymore." No drinker worth a moment of your time would respond to that assertion with anything other than, "Cool."
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Jim Rumbaugh
650 posts
Jan 19, 2012
10:53 AM
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Alcohol is not the answer to making friends, unless you are searching for the wrong kind of friends.
Why do some guys get the girls and others don't.
It's a social skill. Some people have it, some don't. If you are the stranger in a group, be ready to wait, listen, and pay your dues. Your turn will come, and the guys will warm up to you. If not, find some other guys.
In the Huntington Harmonica Club, there is very little drinking, or I'm blind as a non-drinker.:)
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HarmoniCollege March 24, 2012
theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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shadoe42
113 posts
Jan 19, 2012
11:58 AM
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I drink but I have also seen the weed issue. However for me since I am subject to random drug testing at work I tell them not only can i not but i would prefer to not be around so let me know so I can vacate. so far no one has been a dick about it. Most folks are pretty cool about it. Drinking is the same way. If you can't or don't just tell them. If they think less of you that is their issue not yours :)
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The Musical Blades
My Electronic Music World
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2chops
62 posts
Jan 19, 2012
12:06 PM
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@ Dan...I agree. A lot of non drinkers do come across as a tad snooty. An attitude I keep in check myself. I used to drink on occasion up until about 8 years ago. I never cared for the feeling of not being 100% in control, plus I was a take it or leave it kind of drinker anyway. So I left it. No biggie.
And, like kudzu said, if anyone asks why not, tell them you just don't or can't do it anymore.
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waltertore
1871 posts
Jan 19, 2012
12:28 PM
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I see your question as one of fitting in the scene.
I have been inside small scenes and some of the biggest in blues and rock and roll. Movie stars too- did a small acoustic tour with harry dean stanton and the Call, was courted to play on the soundtrack for the color of money with clapton and robbie robertson, amoung other stuff. The key to fitting in is first to be doing the same basic thing the scene is doing or not be too far off the center. This is basic sociology. Sound like the scene- punk rock will not get into the inner circle of blues players, drink if that is part of it, stay straight if that is part of it, etc. Drinking in excess will not get you too far nowadays but 30 years ago it was pretty standard. I remember drinking all night with musselwhite and today he is bone dry. Not drinking or drinking will affect your status if it is somewhat off center of what the scene is doing but you can still easily fit in if you are playing similar to it. Even on these music forums when I go into spontobeat the interest is very small but if I talk a common interest, it is much higher.
Also if you are a threat- doing something different that the crowd digs, you are in deep waters of never getting in the scene. I have always disliked the scene for this. Musicians, music writers, record label owners, radio djs, promoters, agents, tend to be very insecure/conservative people and are easily threatened even though the ones threating are not intending to do so but are just doing what they do. Most all want to be around winners/people doing what is currently accepted, which is again a basic sociology issues. When I played and somebody like Bobby keys the sax player for the stones, or joey ramone sat in, the club got packed, the papers mentioned it but if nothing bigger happened industry wise from it, I faded back to playing to next to nobody. The old blues guys are great examples of this. One night they would sit in at madison square garden with the stones and get cheered like conquering heros yet the next night I would be playing with them in a club that held 100 and maybe 20 people were there.
If you are like me, you will keep playing what turns you on and as the years go by get more comfortable with not fitting in a scene and simply just enjoying your music with none of that blue stuff about not fitting in cluttering your soul. I am not all the way there yet but I get closer with each year. I am not trying to create a spontaneous music scene because that goes against my philosophy of letting things unfold on their own. I take initiative on what interests me with art and ignore the stuff that doesn't. I can't ride on the coatails of anyone and I am not stuck in one genere of music either. People like to know what you do ahead of time. This led me to lie most of my full time music life about what I do in order to get gigs, record deals, etc. I am glad I am done with all that. It was part of the learning process and I continue to learn more each day about letting my music just come out and leave it at that.
Doing what I do has kept me out of the scene even though I was deep in it. I can talk gear, road stories, old blues guys stories, etc, but when I start to talk about spontobeat, I am immediately on the outside. When I share things like- Isn't it wonderful to have no idea where you are going? Isn't it great to walk into songs that you have no idea where they came from? Isn't it great you don't know what words and music will come out each time you pick up an instrument? Don't you love not having any plans for a recording session? Don't you wish there were more hours in the day so you could record more than a cd a day of music- cause the unknown songs never stop flowing out?, Isn't it great never writing a song and letting you soul sing them? No rehearsal, no repeating, no forethought for a gig or recording session, is a high for sure isn't it? The scene drifts away real quick with this stuff just as it will get little to no response here.
It use to hurt but now I don't take this personally. Like I said it is a basic sociology issue. Humans are a very social animal and tend to emulate each other. That makes for commonality and acceptance. A person that paints the walls with thier feces is not going to be accepted in most circles..........
I remember when I was trying to get the austin american statesman to list me under spontobeat in the music calendar. they said no because no one else is doing it. It is that kind of example that has kept me on the outside yet at the same time I would be hanging out with the big guns...... I eventually got too lonely with it all and now stick to my own universe. My music makes me happy and I no longer have that empty feeling that I often had when in the scene. I dig my music and that is all that really matters. What others think of it is not at all a part of the creative process, but for most musicians it is a key part. If the world is interested I am ready to play gigs again, but if not, I am fine playing for myself. Music, IMO, is a personal thing and the whole money/acceptance thing has warped it and continues to warp it. For me, I have to have complete freedom/control over my music or there is nothing to play. With all this said and done, I say play for yourself and be thankful to have such a wonderful outlet for your soul!!! Walter
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Last Edited by on Jan 19, 2012 6:53 PM
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nacoran
5125 posts
Jan 19, 2012
2:26 PM
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I'm a non-drinker. Although I technically can drink on the medication I'm on it's highly discouraged. I didn't drink before that though. It just gave me a conversation ending excuse that doesn't sound like I'm trying to pass judgement on other people drinking. In truth, I'm actually pro-legalization for most drugs and don't mind people drinking as long as they are doing it safely. I'm actually kind of glad I never got into drinking. I was on prescription Xanax and I discovered I have a personality that doesn't mix well with addictive substances.
Now pass me some cake.
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Nate
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eharp
1691 posts
Jan 19, 2012
6:44 PM
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i hear ya, nate.
my most common response when asked what i was addicted to:
"what do you got?!?'
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Michael Rubin
409 posts
Jan 19, 2012
7:00 PM
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I don't drink. I try not to advertise it. Most drinkers are too busy to notice it. But I have never felt excluded for it. I have had some band members think that miscommunications were due to differences in sobriety levels. They may be right.
I suggest killing them with kindness. Be nice again and again and soon you should be accepted. Or screw 'em.
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Aussiesucker
979 posts
Jan 19, 2012
7:32 PM
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@hohnerjones > Bluegrass is of course a different scene where everyone gets the chance to play in turn. Good, bad, expert or learner at our bluegrass meets its hard to pass. Some of my Bluegrass friends love a drink, although not whilst playing.
I don't think at other jams that it could have anything to do with your being a non drinker. My observation would be that you may just be a little too aloof? Too nice to put yourself forward? If a beginner has the guts to walk up and play a few sorry notes then maybe this should be telling you something? I'm sure it's not about the drink but having too much to drink will give bad players plenty of courage & a false belief in themselves to get up and play badly.
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Diggsblues
1150 posts
Jan 20, 2012
10:59 AM
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I don't usually drink unless it's a diet soda.
Sometimes a shot with a friend.
What I usually do is go up and wipe the floor with
everyone. They're usually scared of me or want to be my friend. LOL
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Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind
How you doin'
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atty1chgo
220 posts
Jan 20, 2012
11:02 AM
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I don't play with a band, just go to jam sessions on occasion. I have found that the quality of the playing decreases markedly with the amount of alcohol consumed. Nothing wrong with having one before I get up there to wet my whistle. But any more than that and I have found that the concentration isn't there, the timing isn't there, etc. That's just me. Going up there should be fun, and it is. But there is also the business of playing effective and good blues harp to be taken care of. That's harder to do when you are buzzed in any way. That ought to be incentive enough not to fold under pressure to drink. If people do that to others, they are probably assholes anyway.
Last Edited by on Jan 20, 2012 11:06 AM
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