I was interested to buy one of these Mics which in Oz cost up to $300. I note that they are available from both Amazon & Musicians Friend for $119US. Our dollars are comparable hence the US price is really attractive. But both sites, whom I have purchased other harp stuff from, are restricted in shipping this Shure item to Australia.
To me it sounds like Shure are protecting their interests in Australia by imposing these trade restrictions?
I did purchase an Audix Fireball 5 Mic from Musicians Friend a year back without any problem. I love the Fireball Mic and am wondering if I am wasting time & money in looking to purchase a Green Bullet? ---------- HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
The quality and/or desirability of the microphone notwithstanding, I was just corresponding with one of your countrymen about something similar recently. I used to deal a lot in vintage motorcycles and parts and shipped parts to motorcycle forum members to various places in the world (never to Australia). I would be happy to ship a Green Bullet here from Michigan to you in Australia. At least I could look into the customs situation at this end for you. Sometimes there are courier fees and whatnot at the recipient's end. Maybe they restrict "new" items from retailers. Maybe a "used" item from a private party is treated differently. Maybe "parts" are treated differently. You can email at phezanthawk@wowway.com if I can be of any help.
First and foremost - not all green bullets are created equal!!!
If we're talking brand new, still manufactured models - then $300 seems outrageous - because it ain't that great a mic - and that's an indefensible markup to cover export and duty costs. If we're talking about a carefully selected used Model 520 from ebay, $300 may well be a fair price. Let me explain:
The current model (and has been for the last 20 years or so) green bullet is the 520DX. It has a built in volume control and a modern dynamic element with a mylar diaphragm. Tone wise it is the cleanest of all the Shure bullets. It is also the biggest around and the heaviest mic available which makes it harder to cup and fatiguing to hold compared to others.
Before the model 520DX came the 520D. The D stands for "dual impedance". It has a controlled magnetic element with a foil diaphragm which has ballsier tone than the 520DX. However it has two sets of windings in its coil assembly to support the dual impedance feature, and its tone is a little harsher and thinner than the original Model 520, which had a "single impedance" controlled magnetic element. THOSE elements ROCK and have excellent tone. They are the standard element I supply in my wood mics.
There were even earlier bullets with even better elements - not all of these shells were green. These go back all the way to the famed "black label controlled reluctance" elements which were made from 1949 through 1953 and are sort of the holy grail.
The ultimate authority on all things Green Bullet related, with a complete history of the line - is Dave Kott and his web sitehttp://www.greenbulletmics.com/
The price of a NEW bullet - well - that's up to the manufacturers. But there's nothing wrong (and in fact a lot to be desired) in an older one that has a much better element and is smaller and lighter to boot.
When I started out - a friend told me - "you need to get a green bullet - that's what a lot of the pros used - very popular harp mic". Not knowing any better, I bought a new one - a 520DX. It took me many more years to learn about the older ones and the differences. If I had it to do over again - I would NEVER HAVE BOUGHT A CURRENTLY MANUFACTURED BULLET FROM ANY VENDOR. Some are OK, some are AWFUL - but with a little knowledge you can do much better for a little more $$.
Last Edited by on Jan 08, 2012 5:40 PM
Thank you Greg. I think I will stick with what I have.
Thanks also to FMWoodeye for the kind offer to assist in circumventing the Shure restrictions.
Retail in general in Oz is in a real mess with stores losing out to online US vendors. It's no wonder as some margins are outlandish. As an example my son recently purchased a Casio G Shock sports watch from a large retailer who has outlets all over Oz & he paid over $400. I, for exact same watch got it a month later from Amazon for $83. I am all for supporting our local guys but those who have not moved with the times deserve to be run out of town. Not all is bad as I support a local online retailer with some harp purchases and whilst his prices might be marginally higher I have good personal contact. ---------- HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
Shockingly I have heard a couple dx mics that sound reasonably strong. Luck of the draw. If I had it to do over I wouldn't have spent retail on my dx. I would have been better off on eBay and getting it for half price. All it does now is serve as a back up/ busking mic. I am meaning to get a new element for it and a switch craft installed to make a great mic out of a so so one.
@Will - didn't say the DX wasn't strong - they have plenty of output - but for lowdown dirty tone, compared back to back with a good CM.... they don't compare. Too much frequency response, too much headroom, too little color to the nature of the distortion. ---------- /Greg
If you want "the real stuff" you buy a real, vintage mic from Ebay, But it could be a sort of gambling and you do not know what you get. If you buy a mic from blowsmeaway you got a top of the line - hi-class mic in a better shell. I have one from greg and i have had 15-20 other mic's. I know what i talking about. I use two mic's regularly and it is one custom mic from Greg and one white CR in a turner shell.
I've found that the Peavey H5 and H5C, which pretty much possess the same physical features as the Green Bullet, provide a nice ballsy tone and boast a couple other items that make it fun to use like finger grooves on top for better gripping and an on/off switch. I'm not sure about the element on it, dynamic of some kind.
Would anyone here vote for it as a better alternative to the lackluster 520DX? I have one and I like it fairly well, better than a 520DX in any case. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2012 8:57 AM
I own two 520s, one black label CR and one is a cloth label CM. I also am the proud owner of one of Greg's custom mics. It contains a 1949 black label CR element. All three are great mics,however thanks to Greg's ears in picking the best of the elements I offered, my custom with the CR is by far my favorite.
The element is really where all the tone begins right after the players tone and technique. It weighs 4 1/2 oz. as compared to 13 ounces. The difference is wonderful. It is also smaller in diameter making cupping much easier. The custom has the best of 3 exceptional elements. Cosmetically, you don't the reverence from civilians as when they're looking at a 60 year old shell with thousands of gigs on it but what you do get is, "Wow. What is that?". Sounds great, lighter and easier to play, looks beautiful and is unique. And if it works for Charlie McCoy it sure as hell works for me. ---------- LSC
Aussiesucker, the list price for a 520DX in most places in Oz seems to be around $319. I bought one online in the US (Music123) on special for $81!! I got it delivered to a mate and he posted it to me.
A 520DX isn't anywhere near like 520 with a hot CM element - HOWEVER, if you've got big hands and want a bullet mic with a reasonably clean sound, the 520DX is not a bad choice (but never at $300!). I use a Digitech RP350 with Richard Hunter's patches that can make anything as dirty as you like, so the 520DX isn't a bad input for that. I also play harp as the 'horn section' for a ukulele group (which is certainly 'different') and use the 520DX straight into the PA for that. I've got SM58s and a CAD 50VC (like a JT-30) as well as a bunch of mics I've made myself, but I find myself using the 520DX a fair bit. But never at $300!!
Thanks for all the responses. I sort have gone cold on my search ie unless I stumble across the real deal a 520 at a good price.
Incidentally I found that the DX can be bought online in Oz for ca 50% of our retail price via NZ with free shipping. But from all the great input here I figure the 520DX is not for me. I think I will need to save up and buy one of Gregs mics. ---------- HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
@Jim - you are right. You can't polish a turd. Those 520DX's really suck. I used a 520DX with the stock dynamic element in this video. I often wondered how much different my tone would have been with a different mic.
If its too heavy, it is too heavy. If people spent as much time working on their tone and technique as they do worrying about equipment, they would soon realize that the mic doesn't matter much. It makes a difference, but its not the great equalizer. It's certainly not a Magic Tone Generator.
I committed last year to getting one of Gregs mics after happily honking away for a few years on a crystal shaker.. Sure I've been developing my tone and trying not to get wrapped up in the gear thing but man, this is some mic!! I've barely broken it in but already, people are noticing..... :~} ---------- One of Rubes's bands, DadsinSpace-MySpace
----------I only mess about with a shitty ten buck lapel mic, sonotone, and a bottle O blues straight into the computor, using audacity i tend to get some of the fx reasonable, as i'm only a beginner i'm not going down the 'get a better mic' to sound cool syndrome, i know that if you sound good acousticly you'll sound better all wound up with some good gear, until that time happens i'll suss out what you's are using, and when i work it out, look out!!! 'Blame the tradesman not the tools'. Get it? avagoodweekend!!
i had a green bullet i gave it away. i liked my shure undyne better it has more balls. i have it in a wood block like john mayall. a telephone speaker is better than a green bullet.
Joe's video is a great example showing that of all the variables, technique is the most important. I've heard Joe through a number of mics/rigs and he sounds good through everything because he understands and has great mic technique.
The only way (for me anyway) to hear the difference from one mic to another is to play them yourself, or have someone else play them, live, back to back, switching back and forth several times. I love the internet but compressed audio through small speakers just isn't a good way to compare amps or mics. ---------- /Greg
Steamrollin Stan - quote "Blame the tradesman not the tools'. Get it?"
To a degree you are right like a VW will do the same job as a Mercedes and all the driver has to do is drive.
But with Mics like cars or whatever there are variations that suit individuals needs. Catering for these needs employs a lot of people and consumes a lot of GAS (gear acquisition syndrome).
There are other aspects with a Mic that are important ie they are not cheap to buy so apart from tone the comfort, size , weight & price is important.
I love my Audix Fireball 5 for comfortable cupping and a clean sound. I have a Shure PG58 which I was sold by a local music store as being a great harmonica mic!!! It's ok on a stand about 6inches away - but just ok. It was a quantum leap in quality, tone, weight & comfort moving from my PG58 to the Fireball. I purchased the Fireball online and for only slightly more that I locally paid for the Shure PG58.
I might not be a great tradesman, in fact far from it, but I do like to work with good tools as they do make a huge difference. ---------- HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
Ron sunshine really does something cool with his mic sales on eBay
He demos them for a good minute. Roughly the same licks for all mics and same settings of the amp regardless of the mic to compare relative volume and breakup at given settings
He generally has a few shures a turner or two an electrovoice and a stick mic or two. His stuff isn't cheap but really is nice. Generally his mics have little done to them and original paint.
His selling method is really transparent. There is no mystery about what you are going to get. If you can cup the mic you can get comparable tone to his videos.
Ron Sunshine does a good demo but I think he is using a Lone Wolf pedal (either a break or tone) that really "helps" the tone of his mics that he sells. He doesn't state that in his demos. I've been watching his demos for a long time and soon after he frist demo'd a Lone Wolf pedal (not the delay) his tone on all is demo's changed. Much more gritty...
I've got a good collection of shure elements CR, CM and crystals. I always thought the 520DX was a POS untill I played one. I wasn't blown away but I was impressed with the tone I was able to get out of it. I could see it as a viable option but I wouldn't spend more than $50 on one.
Last Edited by on Jan 10, 2012 6:17 PM
Hey Aussie, Dennis Gruenling sells customised vintage mics and has currently a green bullet for sale for $290.00 if your interested. I'm fairly certain it would be superior to a new bullet that you could buy anywhere in Oz. There are vids of Dennis playing the mics he sells as well.
@Greg - your point about playing them back to back is a very good point. It's the easiest way to tell the difference.
I made this video a number of years ago using a number of microphones with a Harpgear Double Trouble. Even with compressed audio, you can hear a difference between them. I kept the volume and tone settings the same on the amp.
If I was to do this again, I would probably adjust the volume and tone controls a bit to dial in each microphone. I would also probably record audio with a Zoom H2 instead of a video camera.
i thought so. so there you have it. you can use a much maligned mic and a much maligned harp that is uncustomized and it doesn't matter one bit. providing of course, you know how to play. ----------
MP doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
I think Joe_L's tone in the video has a rather buzzy kazoo quality that is characteristic of the 520DX. His technique and playing are just fine, but I'm sure he'd sound different -- and better -- with a better mic. To be clear: Joe is a good player and he sounded good here. He would have sounded even better with a mic that was not so nasal. You can surely hear that through Youtube.
Having said that, I am not encouraging players to run out and spend a fortune on vintage or custom mics. In the hands of a good player like Joe they make a difference. In the hands of a lesser accomplished player any mic can sound terrible.
Actually, it was a combination of the amp and the mic. I used that mic with that amp because it was the cleanest sounding mic that I owned at teh time. The mini meat was distorting before you turned it on.
I also ran out with the tone control set to provide maximum volume. The 2x8 w/ 1x10 has cool tone but out wasn't super loud. When you cranked it to maximum volume, it sounded like that with any microphone. It was a super fun amp to play, but it wasn't known for it's tonal variation.
With a mic like a controlled magnetic, it sounded ever more busted up. Check harpsucker's video on that amp on youtube. The distortion is even more apparent there.
i've owned several bullet type mics and still own 2. of those i owned in the opast, a shaker dynamic was probably one of the lesser mics tone-wise. i had a shure 520 from the 80's that was a true hotass mic. good element in it i guess but i don't recall which one. i got hold of a 707a shell some years ago and a friend gave me a very hot cm element which has been housed in there for about a decade now. once i put a vc on that mic it will be really formidable. i swapped with a guy, a shure 545 (or 2? can't remember), and got a ruskin custom chromed bullet mic, made in a motorcycle turn signal bezel, super light, which has a very good crystal in it and has been a favorite mic for some years. also have a greg-modded e-v m43u which is top shelf in every way except the crappy green paint- stock military green. i have a "bushman" nady torpedo which has a very sorry element. i have a hand-carved wood shell bullet from a guitar maker with an even worse element. a guy once gave me a hohner blues blaster, which i gave to someone else after trying to get a good tone out of it. this was in the early 90's and it was an original BB. even so, really crappy tone and the xlr cable idea has always been a bad one for a bullet mic imo. i have a 545s i plan to have modded when my ship comes in. if i'm not waiting at the train station that day!
i'd say if you want a really good bullet either get one from Greg, or Rharley, or take your chances on fleabay. ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
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Last Edited by on Jan 14, 2012 9:05 AM
@Aussiesucker,. Forget the 520DX,.Dia.& weight will Fatigue you after a Lil' Playin Time,. Check Out my Chopped JT30-style Mics on the 2012 for sale page,. Also I have some Badazz Chopped Turners that are not listed ,.Drop me a line ><
