Ugh! Why the great fills and then the fast out of tune solo? He can play such great stuff, but then when he tries to wank, it has way too many wrong notes.
HarpNinja said: "Ugh! Why the great fills and then the fast out of tune solo? He can play such great stuff, but then when he tries to wank, it has way too many wrong notes."
Speaking of which, John Popper does that sort of thing a lot when he sits in with other bands. I actually really like a lot of Popper's playing, but when he sits in he tries to play the same stuff he plays in his his band. And he plays all these notes that don't fit the harmony, and his speed playing doesn't fit the groove of the song. I know that he's known for that style of play and that sound, and yes it's his signature, but you can't just force it over everything, if it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit, you need to adapt. Even when he plays with BT he relies on the speed and trajectory of his playing to cover up any notes that don't realy "fit", and that approach "works" with a lot of the stuff BT plays. But in BT they at least(ussually) play songs where the groove will fit his style of playing. But when he sits in with other bands, that isn't the case a lot of the time. And when his playing doesn't fit the groove, the "wrong notes" really stick out. I've seen videos of him sitting in with bands where he'll play his major pentatonic licks over some minor chords. So often times his playing will stick out like a sore thumb when he sits in with other bands. (Of course, there are some times when he sits, and the song they're playing just so happens to fits his style of playing.) There are time when he's playing in with BT when he does in fact alter/adapt his playing(from the type of stuff he normally plays) so that it fits the songs. But he just doesn't seem to do this when he sits in, it's like he just goes to where he's most comfortable.
(I'm sure you know all this, HarpNinja, as you've followed Popper's playing pretty closely. I'm sure you have more insight on this, and his playing in general, than I do.)
I don't mean to bash Popper (I'm sure we've all heard more than enough of that), like I said I'm actually a fan of a lot of his playing, and I use to work on trying to add some of that style to my playing. My point is just that one needs to adapt ones playing to the song, not the other way around. A lot harmonica players are "guilty" of not adapting, most commonly they'll be playing a non-blues song and they try to force their blues licks over it.
EDIT: I just now saw that the player on this track is, in fact John Popper, that's funny. To be honest, I don't think John's solo in this song is as bad as some the other stuff I've heard him play while sitting in with a band. But I do think he should have played something that grooved with this song a little better, it could have been much better than what it was(the solo part that is, some of the other stuff he plays in this song is excellent). But when it comes to playing stuff that doesn't "fit", and sticks out like a sore thumb, I really don't think this is too bad, I've seen him do worse.
Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2012 8:05 PM
"My point is just that one needs to adapt ones playing to the song, not the other way around. A lot harmonica players are "guilty" of not adapting, most commonly they'll be playing a non-blues song and they try to force their blues licks over it."
True very true _________________________________________
Daughter of Hannibal Lecter, also known as "Christelle Berthon"
My impression is that Popper often tends to play patterns rather than particular notes. Works great when the patterns fit the changes--not so great when they don't. Very interesting player, though.
I'd like to start off with one of my favorite Monk-isms:
"I say, play your own way. Don’t play what the public wants. You play what you want and let the public pick up on what you’re doing? even if it does take them fifteen, twenty years."
People ask Popper to sit in or lay down tracks because they want his sound to be laid down....Let's face it, he has his own style. And he seems pretty cool with that...
The song is minor but also VERY modal....for the Harp players (positional?) So, some of the wrong notes could be misheard...in a modal sense.....I like to play Major Locrian C D E F Gb Ab Bb on most Middle Eastern style or a Double Harmonic scale C Db E F G A? B when playing Sax...these scales a very complex and so is middle eastern music..
With that being said, IMHO, there aren't wrong notes just better choices! Sure, if you are a sideman or someone trying to make a name for yourself, adapt your style to get some gigs.....but if you are associated with "plays like" or "sounds just like" then you'll never be YOU!!!! ---------- JB http://www.facebook.com/jbharmonica jbustillos@gmail.com
Don't listen to thefast solo around the 2min mark. Everything else is very musical and interesting - and follows the harmony.
The solo does not. Which shows that he CAN but chooses NOT to play it right.
Listen to just about every note he plays on the John Popper and Duskray Troubadors album. Brilliant, brilliant stuff. I don't mean the live stuff...I mean the album cuts. All but two songs avoid this sort of out of tune pattern playing.
As a side note, he knows his positions. On the minor tunes if he'd just play the same patterns in 3rd, they'd almost always all fit... ---------- Mike VHT Special 6 Mods Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2012 2:45 PM
Very cool stuff for sure. I too agree that that high-end noodley stuff he does at 2:15 is the only thing that really sticks out as annoying. Also, it's the only riff that screams "John Popper" to me in the whole song (except for some of the stuff at around 3:15). Other than that, it's pretty much hook-driven with a change of texture using effects. Very groove based too, which I like. ---------- == I S A A C ==
I heard some notes that caused tension, followed by notes that released the tension.
I heard the same thing (tension) from the horns, if that was horns I heard.
By the same token, this is not the kind of tune I would want to groove on, while riding down the road. ---------- theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
I'm not sure I'd agree the harmonica playing is modern. The music isn't really too modern it's just a fusion of styles kinda like a lot of jazz in the 60s/70s.
I thought the harmonica sounded too much like Popper until I realized it was him, lol.
I think the notes sound fine, nothing wrong about them. Other then that they sound boring and re-used John Popper notes.
I listened to another song or two by Beats Antique after listening to this. Kinda reminds me of Juno Reactor a bit. I hear an Egyptian meets belly dancing meets hip hop sound.
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~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Steven Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
i really like the stuff around 3:30, popper out there at his best
In this video he really does not groove with the band he sits in with... but i can see why playing a solo with Garcia watching would be pretty difficult.. not bad, but Jerry totally turns his back to him.. ouch!
After giving the tune 10 listens, I've decided I really like it. He is using a standard F harmonica - no doubt a stock Special 20, and he is nailing bends all over the harp.
The playing ranges from bluesy 2nd position playing to some really cool spacey and ethnic lines. I was too hard on him over the solo around 2min. Even in playing some trademark riffs, it is hard to pick out any major sounding passing notes. In 4min (remember it is probably his only appearance on the album) he covers the entire harp slow and melodic to high and blazing fast with really great control.
I know he is a pattern player, but if you sit down and try to tab it out, he jumps from patter to pattern several times within a bar or two of music. Whereas I think pattern players like Sugar Blue stick to a pattern without much improvising on it, guys like Popper and Ricci take patterns and phrase off of them in a really cool way.
Also, if I were paying John money to play on one of my tunes, I'd sure as hell want it to sound like John Popper. They probably not only encouraged that but had him play all over the tune and decided what to cut and keep.
I really appreciate track. I don't hear anything wrong with it. Such groove and chord progression allow to play "wrong" notes. Plues nice music, I've already listened before. ---------- Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
Not being American, I picked up a copy of BT4 quite late and listening to that the first time literally 'blew my mind' to use a cliched expression.
The marvellous 'Crash Burn' and the extraordinary harp solo on 'Brother John' where JP accelerates through the harp 'gears' with astonishing speed and accuracy.
Furthermore, the song writing, singing, and the cohesive, tight band playing proved to me that they desrved much wider exposure.
The years passed, and I followed the inevitable demise of BT, however, it is good to hear that JP, at a time in his life when a lot of players hang their boots up, has chosen to go 'off road' in his development rather than staying on the safe highway.
I have been trying to post on this thread for a couple of days but was having a problem with the message verification system.
I love the Beats Antique track, just purchased it from iTunes. Whilst I am a big fan of the blues, my background is more World Music/Jazz. I also play a Windsynth.
I really like some of the Jason Ricci, fusion tracks, like Ptryptophan Pterodactyl/Dodecahedron... so the question is: are there any other players that I should be listening to? Players that have explored other genres? (I am not a fan of some of the chromatic jazz players, the tone is just too thin and weedy for me).
The tab book to Four pretty much ruined me. I probably spent a year online researching harmoinca, namely Mr. Popper, deciding if I wanted to take the plunge and try to learn.
Finally, after buying a harmonica and letting it sit most of that same year, I started to teach myself the basics. I was a Jr. in college and went home for the summer determined to come back proficient at something. Well, I was too embarrassed to play it at home where my family could hear my learning.
Start my Sr. year and I had learned enough to play a couple Tom Petty songs. That fall, I went semi-serious with it and bought the tab book to Four. Between what Winslow had written in the tab book, what I found online, and what some more experienced players showed me, I was able to start to wrap my head around the style (but not play it).
If you look at the musical notation, you can see the shapes he plays. It is all shapes you can follow like a roller coaster - up and down, slow and fast, beginning to end. Very cool.
To go the next level and try to learn his "pattern" playing, you hit a brick wall. Sure, you can learn the patterns in isolation, memorize the solos, and play along with the CD, but it gives you no help in improving like he does.
Same with other speed demons like Ricci.
The one guy that I like that I thought was easier to crack the code on was Sugar Blue. His patterns are much more linear and riff like. The Popper and Ricci stuff? Forget it. Learning to play by stealing their riffs is a nightmare. It is much more effective to learn what patterns they use and then create your own story with them.
After almost 10yrs of playing, Popper and Ricci have made it hard for me to not phrase things in either triplets or with embellishments. When I jam, I stop hearing notes and start hearing shapes, so when I try to play something like 5 draw, it becomes 5 draw embellished.
I took almost two full years of not listening to either artist or practicing playing anything fast to break some of the habit. It has gotten easier when playing with a band to not go that direction, but if I am playing solo or just noodling at home, everything is phrased in shapes. ---------- Mike VHT Special 6 Mods Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
