Bassdude64
1 post
Nov 27, 2011
12:11 PM
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Hi everyone, I just picked up the harp again after a couple of year layoff. I am mainly a bass player but have always loved the harp. My question is this, a friend who I respect has told me that the Special 20 is the way to go, however I seem to feel more comfortable with a Lee Oskar. Should I buy more LO's and ignore advice from a very good harp player or just write off my own feeling to beginner's naivete and work harder with the Special 20? Or does it even matter?
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groyster1
1596 posts
Nov 27, 2011
12:16 PM
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its your money and you are the best source for what you like
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clyde
171 posts
Nov 27, 2011
1:32 PM
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it's like a very good driver telling you a ford is the way to go instead of the chevy you love. if you like the chevy drive it. if you like the L.O. ... play it.
some very good harp players are just like you land are very comfortable with the L.O.
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hvyj
1982 posts
Nov 27, 2011
2:06 PM
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LO's are more durable,more responsive and have better compression than SP 20s. They are also tuned ET which I, for one, strongly prefer. I think the LO is a better quality harp than the Sp 20, but, personally, I don't particularly like the tone and timbre of LOs.
Go with what you are comfortable with.
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Rick Shanks
143 posts
Nov 27, 2011
7:09 PM
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I agree with the above posts, although do like the sound I get with L.O's. In the end familiarity is often what will dictate a players preference in brand. I have used Lee Oskars since 1984 and all of the original ones purchased are still in use. Some have had new reedplates fitted over the years, although not all. They are great harps. I'm a single note player and not using them for chords, so the ET tuning suits my style. I use all four of his tuning layouts and love them. If you enjoy playing in second position the Melody Makers and Natural Minors are great for achieving different scales with familiar breath patterns to a standard 'Richter' major diatonic.
More recently i have begun to add in some custom GM's from Mike Fugazzi.(HarpNinja). These are incredibly responsive harps adjusted for working on more chromatic lines on diatonic. I am now finding (probably after becoming more used to what to listen for and 'hit' using a custom harp) that I am able to achieve overblows more consistantly on Lee Oskars I have tweaked a bit.
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KiwiRick
http://www.richardshanksart.com
Last Edited by on Nov 27, 2011 7:37 PM
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Bluzmanze
17 posts
Nov 27, 2011
7:29 PM
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Like you I have started back at the harp after a long layoff.When I first started,the quality of Marine Bands and sp-20's were really bad,so I tried a LO,and I liked them,because they were easy to bend,responsive,and very consistent out of the box,no matter what key.When I got back into it I bought a few sp-20's,in G, Bd,A,D and F. the low keys,G and Bd,were leaky and unresponsive,the A was good,and the D and F were terrific,airtight and responsive as heck.That has been my experience with them recently.I learned on both the Sp and lo,and I am most comfortable on the SP-20,with the LO a close second.I now also use Suzuki blues and harpmasters,great harps Imo,but I still can play the former two better.I think the SP-20's are a little warmer and sweeter sounding,and I think the LO is really good harp to learn on.
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FMWoodeye
57 posts
Nov 27, 2011
7:46 PM
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Well....I don't mean to confuse things, BUT I spent a fair amount of money and experimented with a bunch of harps trying to find the "perfect" instrument. I started out with a half dozen Lee Oskars. I thought the Suzuki Promaster was the "best." I had purchased two Special 20s in the process, one in low Eb and one in high Eb. I didn't like them much, but in retrospect it was a function of the key rather than the harp. In an attempt to preserve my "expensive" harps, I purchased Special 20s in C and A for practice harps. I found the sound and playability to compare favorably with the Promaster, although I thought the Promaster was better tuned high end, just a shade, although the Special 20 seemed to have more volume and "open" tone low end, one hole to six hole. I am now playing my first Marine Band in A and Crossover in C. Nice harps, although the Crossover is twice the price of the Special 20. I guess I would rather have two Special 20s than one Crossover. All in all, if I had to buy a dozen harps and roll with them, I would choose the Special 20 based on price and playability.
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wolfkristiansen
90 posts
Nov 27, 2011
8:56 PM
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Hi Bassdude-- I've been playing for a long time (measured in decades, not years) and I've come to favour the Special 20s over any other make or model. I went through a decade of playing Lee Oskars (very good, durable, loud harmonicas) but came back to Hohner because of the tuning advantage-- good for chords. When I came back to Hohner, I switched from Marine Band to Special 20s, basically because I'd got used to, and favoured, plastic over wood whilst in my Lee Oskar period.
My guess is you'll find a lot of pro harp players are still playing Hohner harps, be they plastic or wood, despite the myriad options available these days.
One last advantage of Special 20s for modest income, small town players like me (and you, maybe?)-- Special 20s are cheap and universally available.
In the end, like others have said, you have to find what works for you. Try a few harmonicas, not just Lee Oskar or Hohner, and see what works for you.
Cheers,
wolf kristiansen
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groyster1
1597 posts
Nov 27, 2011
10:30 PM
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I have more special 20s than any other harp and have sent a few out for customizing,which makes them even better-they are as air tight as any harp Ive played-the marine band deluxe,suzuki hammond and manji are great harps but at a higher price than sp20 which are the best bang for the buckIMHO
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The Gloth
605 posts
Nov 28, 2011
12:25 AM
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I tried a Lee Oskar (in A) at a jam this weekend, and I definitely don't like it. It requires too much air.
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clyde
172 posts
Nov 28, 2011
1:22 AM
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bassdude64,
like you asked "does it really matter"? the only thing that matters is what you are comfortable with.
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MJ
325 posts
Nov 28, 2011
11:31 AM
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I played SP 20 for a while before switching to LOs about 5 years ago. I like the LOs a lot. About 2 years ago I Picked up one of my old SP 20s and noticed that it was less "breathy" than my LOs. I have since switched back to the SP 20, along with Suzuki Harpmaster and Manji. I really never play my LOs anymore, with the exception of my LO Am harp which I use on about 3 songs. That being said, it is still all about what feels and sounds right for you.
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groyster1
1598 posts
Nov 28, 2011
11:47 AM
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I have experimented with hohner,suzuki and lee oskar I dont really care for the sound of lee oskars but the ones I have are 25-30 years so they are obviously very durable the best thing about hohners is that there are so many models to choose from the blue midnight with JI tuning was a great market strategy and suzuki is the number 2 so they try harder with the manji hammond or whatever suzuki you like
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nacoran
5002 posts
Nov 28, 2011
6:59 PM
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Of the harps I can afford to buy, in that $30-$40 price range, I like the Lee Oskars best, followed by the Special 20s. I'm more of a single note player so I give a slight edge to the LOs. They are both good harps. There is nothing that says your set has to match. The holes are a little different sized, but once you get used to switching you don't even notice anymore. One solution would be to get half and half. Alternate keys going back and forth- that way whatever range you need you'll have a harp within a half step for both chord style and single note play. (You could probably alternate around the circle of fifths too, but that might be more confusing than you want to think about at this stage.)
Actually, I think it's useful to try a bunch of different models. Harps are similar enough so it won't screw up your playing to try a different build, but different enough it's probably worth trying different options.
Gloth, I'm surprised. I've got a bunch of Lee Oskars, and on a day with a light breeze I can hold them up and they will sound. None of my other harps will do that. (Maybe that's just a result of their big holes?)
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Nate
Facebook
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shadoe42
86 posts
Nov 28, 2011
9:03 PM
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I am rather fond of the susuki HarpMaster. I have SP20s, LOs, Bluesmasters and a smattering of cheap harps but the Harpmasters are the one I reach for often and the ones i have the most keys of. Around here they are in that same price range if not a touch lower than the Sp20s and LOs
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The Musical Blades
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banjotuba
6 posts
Nov 29, 2011
10:20 AM
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I was pretty high on SP20's for awhile, then starting having reeds go out of tune just a little too quickly for my pocketbook. So I'm slowly changing out my working stock to MS-Series Hohners or Lee Oskars, since the reeds are replaceable.
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atty1chgo
169 posts
Nov 29, 2011
10:23 AM
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Special 20 is a FAR superior product than Lee Oskar. I have had one LO, it was lousy. Very soft tone, odd spacing between holes, too long for a comfortable grip, went out of tune in a month of playing. I would never buy another one again. When I see someone with a case full of them, I just cringe at the waste of money that it represents.
Last Edited by on Nov 29, 2011 10:23 AM
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Honkin On Bobo
849 posts
Nov 29, 2011
10:26 AM
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"I've got a bunch of Lee Oskars, and on a day with a light breeze I can hold them up and they will sound."
One of the MBH members has the tag line that the only way he can play is to hold the harp out the car window while driving fast.
....and I thought ridiculous.
Oh yeah.....Sp 20s...all the way.
Last Edited by on Nov 29, 2011 10:27 AM
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FMWoodeye
62 posts
Nov 29, 2011
10:36 AM
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Holding harps out a car window is difficult as you have to slow down and speed up to change the volume. I once mounted two harps in the airbox of a motorcycle, going for the faux turbocharger sound. It drew a lot of inquisitive looks and listens at the V4 BBQ. Alcohol giveth, and alcohol taketh away.
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groyster1
1601 posts
Nov 29, 2011
11:40 AM
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@banjotuba
replacement reedplates are available through rockinron for sp20s have already replaced one with great success
@atty1chgo
"sp20s are far superior to lee oskars" same sentiments exactly far superior sound and playability IMHO
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Bassdude64
2 posts
Dec 01, 2011
1:47 PM
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Thanks everyone. It's great to get so much feedback.
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toddlgreene
3473 posts
Dec 01, 2011
2:30 PM
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I'd argue on the LO side. Been playing them for 22 years-and some I still play are from then-and I play HARD, fast and heavy. Wasted money? I think not. I'm quite comfy with the holespacing and comfort of holding. I don't hate SP20's however-and my ears do like the compromised tuning more than ET for blues. Some of my LOs are re-tuned compromised. One big downer of LOs is that square hole, which is brutal on facial hair, moreso than the edges of the cover plates. Solution:shave!
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Todd L. Greene
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HawkeyeKane
504 posts
Dec 01, 2011
2:55 PM
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I have to go with SP20's. IMHO, they're just the most versatile and best sounding OOTB harps out there. The only drawback in my eyes: I know beggars can't be choosers, but when Hohner started selling the reedplates for them, I wish they'd redesigned the harp to use coverplate screws like the MS ones. Flatedge screws and clover nuts aren't fun to work with.
LO's are just too tinny in tone for my taste. I do like that they are on a very easy and affordable maintainence system though. I just kinda wish Tombo would take a few notes from Hohner or Suzuki in tone.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Bugsy
21 posts
Dec 01, 2011
7:27 PM
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If you do not have a SP20, I would say to get one. It is better to find out which kind you like now rather than wanting to change after you get a bunch.
That being said, I have a SP20 in A And I enjoy it. Sometimes it is my favorite. I have a LO in Eb, but I don't play it too much (not sure why; I think it might be the way it fits in my mouth).
I would definitely encourage you to at least try a SP20.
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jim
1063 posts
Dec 02, 2011
3:18 AM
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they are almost the same.
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Free Harp Learning Center
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SweetLips
10 posts
Dec 02, 2011
8:40 AM
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Like others have posted, I find the LO a bit louder, require more "breath" to play, but for my style they tend to be more durable. When I was learning to bend and going through harps at about one every 3-4 weeks, LO's saved me a bunch of money by lasting longer. I like SP20's, comfortable, easy to play - but they are not always perfect out the box, I usually open it up and gap em.
Recently started playing Manjis and love the tone, sound and playability - hate the lip on the comb that the cover plate sits in - feels weird when tongue blocking
Drew
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HarpNinja
1953 posts
Dec 02, 2011
8:57 AM
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LO - ET, breathy, and not easy to setup for overbends
SP20 - Compromise, responsive, easy to set up for overbends
IMO, the SP20 is a better pick for blues - traditional or contemporary. The LO is ET, which I like, but since I OB, I'd go with the SP20. I haven't tweaked a LO in a long time, but they didn't do much for me modded in comparison.
I think the current production SP20 are great. They seem to need more reed flattening than other handmade Hohners, but respond really well to basic gapping and are responsive enough to overblow well without a lot of effort.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
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Pistolcat
56 posts
Dec 02, 2011
9:08 AM
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I planned not to post in this thread since I haven't tried sp20 but I'm a bit compulsive so I state the same thing I said in the last LO vs sp20 thread.
I think the LO is too high in it's coverplates or maybe blunt. My embouchure starts to give in and my mouth starts to hurt when I LP. TB is ok, though. As hvyj pointed out it's my crappy embouchure that faults. Could be my thin lips too. Anyway, just another thing to consider when buying harps.
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2011 9:11 AM
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dougharps
127 posts
Dec 02, 2011
9:44 AM
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They both are fine harps. I play cross genre, including blues, rock, country, bluegrass, and occasionally jazz. I tend to play hard and loud.
Years ago when I was blowing Marine Band, Blues Harp, and Special 20 reeds flat beyond my budget and beyond retuning, I tried LOs and found them to be quite durable, lasting longer than any other harp, though requiring a little more breath. The replaceable reed plates made it economical when one would finally fail, most often a D harp. This was likely due to playing too much loud rock and roll in A with inadequate monitoring, loud guitars, and poor technique.
As technique (and insistence on hearing myself) improved I finally did not flatten reeds very often.
I returned to Special 20s due to the sweeter chords and less air loss (particularly on lower keys). I also now play the occasional overblows, accessible through gapping a Special 20.
I have experimented with Herings tuned to just intonation, with Manji, Seydel 1843s and Session Stainless, as well as Marine Band Deluxe and Crossover, as well as customized Marine Bands.
I like the Deluxes, Crossovers,and customs, though I still tend to like recessed reed plates, requiring a plastic comb. Presently I find that Special 20s best suit my style and budget. I do gap them unless I get very lucky out of the box.
But for a player who chooses to not yet overblow, and who doesn't mind slightly harsher chords, and who likes the equal intonation to be correctly in tune with others playing in multiple positions, the LO is quite a bargain and a good harp. When I gig I take them as backup for the Special 20s.
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Doug S.
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