Tommy the Hat
411 posts
Nov 15, 2011
10:12 AM
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I've searched and gathered information on amps and have almost made a decision. I have done a search here on the forums but haven't quite found the last little tidbit to clinch the deal.
I am pretty new to playing and don't play out. Not really planning to either although I'm not ruling out ever playing for someone if asked. Not in a band, I'm talking a party or something. I do this for my own enjoyment but never rule out anything. I have been asked already to come sing and play with a friends band sometime. I don't feel ready nor would I have time but I'm just pointing out that I live one day at a time these days and at the moment I am just enjoying playing and learning but keeping all doors open. I have a Pignose amp for amped practice at the moment and the portability of it is great. However, understandably I'm sure, I want a little more. Still just a practice amp to match my level of play but also something that I can grow with or it with me. Should I want to sit in with someone on a small level or play for a few people something That can accomplish that and then go back to my home for practice.
I narrowed it down to the VHT special 6 and the VOX DA5.
My only point of indecision is the fact that the VHT is tube . Tube is good (right?). The VOX is not "but" it has built in effects, delay being the attraction for me. If I add that or buy a peddel for the VHT then that bumps the price. I'm kind of leaning to the VOX for that reason but thought I'd ask for opinions just to see if stirring the pot brings anything up.
I know how these things go and people will start asking "have you considered..." I have...lol. These are my final choices at this point. Money is an issue also.
Thanks
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Tommy
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KingBiscuit
127 posts
Nov 15, 2011
10:23 AM
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You might compare the cost of a VHT or VOX to a Kalamazoo that you could get from Greg Heumann at www.blowsmeaway.com
The Kalamazoo is an outstanding small harp amp and reasonably priced for a vintage amp.
Dan
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MrVerylongusername
2055 posts
Nov 15, 2011
10:35 AM
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The only way to decide is to go down to a store with a mic and a harp and try both out: even if you end up getting a better deal online.
I've not played either amp so can't comment, but I will give you this for free:
Don't compromise - the amount of money I wasted on 'nearly right, but not quite' amps just depresses me.
Play through them - if neither has what you want, then leave it and keep saving.
As for amps with built in effects - do you really need all of them? A good dedicated delay pedal will wipe the floor with anything you'll get on a cheap amp.
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Steamrollin Stan
180 posts
Nov 15, 2011
10:46 AM
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@ mvluname, so do you suggest a Lone wolf harp delay pedal?
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Tommy the Hat
412 posts
Nov 15, 2011
10:58 AM
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I considered the kalamazoo and have been reading through Gregs site but again it is a little more expensive and doesn't have any effects. So again, the cost goes up to add a pedal or something. I shouldn't say effects, I was mostly looking for some delay. A VHT is about $230 while the VOX is $140. Add a pedal to the VHT and now we are up another what...$100 maybe? For $140 I can have that already. I'm just kind of thinking out loud right now. But I'm considering your good point.
Like I said, I don't need much it's just for the house and I'd like to experiment on some better sound. Keep in mind (I'm keeping in mind) I am still working on acoustic sound. I would expect that after an amp, then at some point further down the line I would look at mics. Actually that is what took me to "Blows Me Away" first. I was looking at that Ultimate 545. Why? I don't know...I know nothing about mics...lol. Maybe it was the Butterfield thread!
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Tommy
Last Edited by on Nov 15, 2011 10:58 AM
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sammyharp
153 posts
Nov 15, 2011
11:15 AM
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Between those 2 I'd definitely go with the VHT. That's a classic harp amp design that's hand wired, and a quality piece of gear. As for the effects, I wouldn't put too much weight on that. I'm not a big fan of in-amp effects. A digital delay pedal is not expensive, and sounds great with a tube amp. The VHT is also a great amp for modding, if you should chose to go that route. The VHT also has more tonal possibilities through trying different tubes. I'd definitely try both amps, though, if I were you.
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MrVerylongusername
2056 posts
Nov 15, 2011
11:25 AM
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Stan - never used one. I have a Danecho which I like and a really old analogue unit that I bought used, which looks like it was homebuilt. The Danecho gets flack because it isn't true bypass, but if I use it, it stays on - so that doesn't bother me.
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jonlewandowski
30 posts
Nov 15, 2011
12:13 PM
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Hey Tommy...I have a VHT Special 6 for sale, totally stock, like new....$175.00. Great amp...it's just one of the SIX I own....
Jon
jonlewandowski@ roadrunner(dot)com
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bharper
100 posts
Nov 15, 2011
12:39 PM
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Tommy, if you plan to ever play live with a blues band at a jam or party or gig or whatever, none of the 3 amps you mentioned will work very well. You will not be able to hear yourself. They are just too under-powered for anything except home practice or semi-acoustic jamming. You can mic them up through the PA, but that is not always available.
I've played all three of the amps (VHT, Vox, K-zoo) and I've owned two of them (VHT and K-zoo). The VHT is by far the best sounding of the 3 if you are looking for natural blues harp tone.
There are other options. The Fender Mustang II amp is 40 watts (solid state) for about $200, and it has tons of effects. Same deal with the Roland Cube 40XL amp. Both of these amps are loud enough for jamming and have good harp tone and lots of effects and models.
The reason I mention them is because jamming seems to be part of your plans, and you will be disappointed with the 3 small amps you are considering. And... the price jump to a jam-worthy tube amp is pretty big.
I agree with MrVLUN... take your microphone and go to Guitar Center. They will have the Fender Mustang amps, and the Roland Cube amps, and others you can try. Go to your local blues jam and talk to other harp players, maybe try their amps.
You already have a micro amp for practice (the pignose). Don't make the mistake of getting another under-powered amp if your goal is to move up to a giggable amp.
Last Edited by on Nov 15, 2011 12:53 PM
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Tommy the Hat
413 posts
Nov 15, 2011
1:23 PM
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@bharper,
Sorry for the confusion, I'm NOT looking to play in a band or out. I only mentioned that at some point, and that may be long from now, "if" someone asked if I could play a couple of tunes at a small get together (which wouldn't be a band situation) I wouldn't rule that out if I felt I had a mic and amp that would give me a little sound. I'd never be investing in anything in the realm of band needs. At this stage of my life i have no interest. As I get older I have less and less time and less and less enthusiasm but more and more responsibility and family issues. I'm in bed by 10:30...lol. Let's just say I'm looking for a small home amp but something with at least decent sound.
@jonlewandowski
Sounds good but at this point I am only asking to try and get a handle on this. I'm no where close to actually buying anything, financially. Maybe months at the soonest, possibly longer.
Yea, maybe a VHT is a better amp and then I can just pick up a delay at some point down the line. I'm far from having any actual playing style right now so there's no rush. It's only for my own enjoyment. I'm more or less trying to decide which path to take right now. I'm not actually ready to proceed yet.
EDIT:
Looking around I have read reviews from people who seemed satisfied with gigging with this amp. Again...not that i am looking for that....just saying.
Here is at least one person in the thread link below:
VHT Special 6
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Tommy
Last Edited by on Nov 15, 2011 1:34 PM
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timeistight
208 posts
Nov 15, 2011
2:02 PM
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How loud can you play at home? Are you able to max out the PigNose without someone complaining? If not, there isn't much point in getting the VHT or the Kalamazoo; you need to able to turn them up to get the most out of them.
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Tommy the Hat
415 posts
Nov 15, 2011
2:06 PM
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I can easily kick the shit out of every one in my neighborhood, I can crank it...no problem. lol
Just kidding. I can crank it I'm fairly secluded and my basement is underground too. I used to crank my guitar on the fender amp I had.
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Tommy
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Greg Heumann
1338 posts
Nov 15, 2011
8:38 PM
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Between the two you're looking at the VHT is the better amp. But if you include a Kalamazoo in the mix, to my ear a Kalamazoo sounds better than the VHT. The difference is NOT huge, but its there. But a Kalamazoo has WAY more blues mojo. After all a VHT is a cheap made by chinese robots circuit board amp - the 'Zoo is an all point to point wired, made in the USA vintage amplifier form the mid 60's.
Effects? A model 2 has tremelo. Effects? There are all kinds of pedals you can use for effect. Effects? About the only one most harp players is a delay which most amps don't have. Effects? We don't need no stinking effects.....
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/Greg
Last Edited by on Nov 15, 2011 8:39 PM
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Joe_L
1609 posts
Nov 15, 2011
10:05 PM
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I agree with Greg.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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Oisin
893 posts
Nov 16, 2011
12:32 AM
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Tommy if you are just gonna use the amp indoors and don't intend to play at gigs or jams with it then go for the VOX. I have a 50 watt one and they are a great amp.All the bells and whistles and a whole lot of effects and different sounds to play with, some of them very useable. And you won't have to spend a fortune on a whole load of effects pedals.I promise you will love it.
If you are gonna be gigging or playing at jams then I'd go for the VHT or Kalamazoo but only because they have a classic sound that harp players like. If you want to experiment at home then you are only going to get a very limited amount of sounds from them.
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Oisin
Last Edited by on Nov 16, 2011 12:35 AM
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Tommy the Hat
418 posts
Nov 16, 2011
4:14 AM
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Like I mentioned in an above post, I had considered a Kalamazoo. Actually it was the act of looking at mics at BlowsMeAway that led me to the Kalamazoo. From there I went to the other amps because of price. The Kalamazoo is a reasonable price but a lot more than the other two and especially if you add a line out. It would be a long, looong time before I would have that kind of cash.
Thanks all. I think I have toe info I need
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Tommy
Last Edited by on Nov 16, 2011 4:17 AM
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bharper
101 posts
Nov 16, 2011
11:28 AM
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Greg, the VHT Special 6 amp is not "a cheap made by chinese robots circuit board amp" as you say. It is hand wired point to point on an eyelet board. The build quality is very high; the amp is solid and well made.
I would disagree with you that the VHT and Kalamazoo sound similar. How could they? The VHT has a 6V6 power tube (like a Fender Champ) and the K-zoo has an EL84 power tube (like an Epiphone Valve Jr). The VHT and K-zoo sound as different as those two amps do.
I've owned both, and to my ear the VHT is a far better sounding amp with a more natural blues harp tone.
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528hemi
260 posts
Nov 16, 2011
11:40 AM
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I have not tried a Kalamazoo but will agree with bharper about the build quality of the VHT in regard to the soldering and eyelet board was very nice! It is also a very easy amp to Mod. You can find used VHT's in like brand new condition for 125.00 add 30.00 for new tubes which are not necessary and if you want to mod it can buy a kit for 48.00. You have a amp that is new and sounds awesome.
528hemi
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rbeetsme
466 posts
Nov 16, 2011
11:46 AM
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I agree with Greg, the VHT has been well received, but doesn't sound as good as a well set-up Zoo. It's pretty relative though. If I'm looking at 2 amps that are similar, the cheapest might win out.
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HarpNinja
1903 posts
Nov 16, 2011
12:34 PM
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"After all a VHT is a cheap made by chinese robots circuit board amp - the 'Zoo is an all point to point wired, made in the USA vintage amplifier form the mid 60's."
VHT's are point-to-point wired as well. Like the VHT, the 'Zoo was a cheap practice amp for its day (meaning it has reltatively cheap components).
Factor in the fact the fact that it is from the 60's, which means it is old...and parts will fail and the like, you'll have to either pay for one that has been gone through, or risk getting one the needs service.
For less than the cost of a Zoo, you can easily mod the VHT if and when the time were to come to do so. I am not trying to discourage you from the Zoo, but just trying to point out some facts.
FWIW, a "well set-up" Zoo isn't really an apples to apples comparison to a stock VHT.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
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HawkeyeKane
414 posts
Nov 16, 2011
12:47 PM
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@Tommy
If it's tubes you want, then prolly go with the VHT. (No offense Greg.)
But if you don't mind a good solid state with a ton of different effects, you might consider a Peavey Vypyr 15 modeling amp. I used one for a couple years to gig with. They aren't huge, but they can scream through that 8"! Figuring out all the effect settings will take a little while, but once you assign presets, it'll be a cinch to use. The only thing it lacks is a direct line out, but since you're saying you want it for the basement, that shouldn't be a prob. And it DOES come equipped with a standard headphone jack in case there's a night when you need to keep the noise down. They usually only go for about 100 bucks.
Peavey Vypyr 15
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Nov 16, 2011 1:06 PM
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Tommy the Hat
421 posts
Nov 16, 2011
6:21 PM
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Yea, the VHT is sounding like a good deal. It may have to wait a bit though. One thing is a money issue and another is a playing issue. As someone mentioned I already have a Pignose so I at least have something to practice with. Before I start getting too crazy maybe I should learn to play better first.
For kicks I got out the Pignose and Bottle O' Blues today and did some practice. When I thought I got the right volume level on both mic and amp I decided to video record a slow blues to a backing track, one take first shot. Well, I screwed it up because I forgot to pay attention to the song length and didn't know it was ending...lol. (Oh shit...hurry resolve!!). But besides that, it just plain sucked. My harp playing still needs work before I get too wrapped up in amps just for the sake of playing amped. When I listen back to my recording it sounds the same as all the other songs I've played...only slower. (it was a slow blues). Really pissed me off.
I think I'll go for the VHT. But it seems a little less urgent right now.
Thanks for the help.
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Tommy
YouTube
Last Edited by on Nov 16, 2011 6:22 PM
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5F6H
981 posts
Nov 17, 2011
6:02 AM
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Money issues apart, anything that inspires you to put the harp in your mouth is a good thing when you are learning, whether it be a new harp, mic, amp, song, hat, whatever...
As you improve, you will get more critical of your playing...what might have been good enough 6 months ago won't cut it anymore, so if you wait until you are a virtuoso before getting an amp, or getting on stage....it'll probably never happen! ;-)
Play, play, play...keep videoing it & critique-ing it. Have fun doing it. There are virtuoso players and there are players that gig & jam a lot & have fun whilst doing it...sometimes a player will fit into both camps ;-)
Another thing, when playing think about the "song"...even if it's an instrumental, think about how vocal phrases might sit, think about themes, hooks & an "identity" for a track. You can play a 12 bar just using a handful of notes/holes, so long as those notes sound good & you mix up how they fall & how long they hang? It may help with the issue you raise about "everything sounding the same"?
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www.myspace.com/markburness
Last Edited by on Nov 17, 2011 6:10 AM
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hvyj
1961 posts
Nov 17, 2011
6:49 AM
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"it sounds the same as all the other songs I've played...only slower."
Try playing LINES. I mean a little melody or motif that you repeat and then vary. a LINE as opposed to a riff has an internal structure that you can vary. It goes from point A to point B, can be repeated and then concluded with, perhaps, a variation. It can be very simple. if you play the notes with good time. Forget about blues licks for a minute and see if you can think up a couple of LINES you can play. It will keep you from just repeating the SOS.
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Tommy the Hat
422 posts
Nov 17, 2011
9:17 AM
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Thanks for the tips, they make sense and I understand what you are saying.
Also @hvyj, thanks on an extra point. I saw "SOS" written here in another post and didn't know what the hell it meant. I racked my brain thinking in terms of music. Thanks to seeing used in better context in your post....I got it!!!
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Tommy
YouTube
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garry
145 posts
Nov 17, 2011
5:16 PM
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i'm curious about the choice of vox da-5, vs. other vox amps, like the vt-20+. unless you specifically need to be able to run on batteries, i think the vt-20+ is the better choice, for only slightly more money.
i own both the vht special 6 and the vox vt-30. both are nice amps, but the vox wins hands down as far as actual use. it sounds better, has giggable levels of loudness, has effects built in (i mostly use delay, tape delay, or chorus), and provides me with many different amp sounds i can switch between with a button click. it's a great amp.
the vht is a nice amp, as well. but to use it for real i'd need to add pedals or my no-longer-needed digitech rp250, and mic it to a PA for volume. and then i have one sound, and i don't like that sound as well as what the vt gives me.
the vt20 has an 8" (vs. 10" on vt30) speaker, but still sounded great when i was trying to decide. i actually played the vt15 at the time, but i believe they're mostly the same. i went with the vt30 because i didn't think the vt15 was loud enough for gigging, presumably not a problem for you.
i strongly agree with others on two points:
1. go to a store and play with your own mic through every amp you're considering. allocate as much time as you need to decide.
2. if the right amp is more than you have to spend, wait until you have it to get the right thing. if you settle for less, you'll only end up buying the right one later, and then you're stuck with an amp you don't need.
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