I've been promoting and supporting various alt. tunings during the last two years, making a dedicated tunings subforum, the "Anthology of Tunings" handbook, retuning script, and of course making the harmonicas.
I'm curious if there are many people here who are actually using alternate tunings.
I know AC plays Diminished, Alex Paclin plays TrueChromatic, Brendan Power plays everything. Boris Plotnikov uses natural minor harmonicas quite often. I'm using TrueChromatic, spiral harmonic minor, and arabic.
The main altered tuning I play is natural minor. I have four of them (some tuned by me, some bought commercially) that I use for harpoxing and reggae/ska. I have two Powerbenders (tuned by me) that I'm still getting to know, but which quite like so far. I have one harp in each of the following (all retuned by me): Harmonic Minor, Spanish, Major Seventh, Patty Richter, and Richter Extended. Of those harps, the latest is Richter Extended, and I think it's the best of the bunch for me. I'm planing to do more of them. I use the Harmonic Minor sometime to play my weak version of Yalla Majnoon, but not for much else. The Spanish is a fun harp with nifty sound, but I haven't yet come up with a use for it. Paddy Richter and Major Seventh are ok, but don't really give me anything I consider to be all that useful in my style of playing. Those two are going to become something else in a little while.
The one retuning I haven't yet tried, but want to, is the Todd Parrot tuning. It'd be simple enough to do with blu tak (my main method), but I just haven't gotten around to it yet. If it works like I think it will, I might even consider retuning all my normal Richters that way.
Oh, and I've got one half valved harp too. I like it, but haven't gotten around to half valving any more harps because I am lazy. Probably, when I get around to it, I'll add some valves on holes 1-5 on some of my richters, as those are the valved bends I seem to use most often. ---------- == I S A A C ==
I would experiment more but I just don't have the budget. I wish Hohner or someone would make a cheap box of harps like Blues Bands or Piedmonts in a bunch of different tunings. Sure, you'd never want to play them out, but if you got to experiment with 7 tunings for $30 the next $30 could go towards which ever one you decided you liked most.
Of course Hohner doesn't have that many different tunings available stock. Maybe it would be a better move for Seydel.
@nacoran: The (cheap) different tunings boxed set would be a great idea! I think a bunch of people would like to try out different tunings, but aren't really ready to throw money at something that they have no idea if they'd like or find useful. ----------
I have a few alternate tunings I routinely use: Major Cross--it's like Melody Maker Power Chromatic--I used to call it Magic Bop Band, blow is IV6, draw is V6 New World--Richter on top, holes 5-10 are like 4-9 on Richter, and the bottom is circular, starts on major 7th, draw 1 is tonic
Recently I started to practice power chromatic minor. Repeated blow pattern A C D F, draw pannern whole tone higher B D E G. I think it's very cool tuning. Playing in E minor is pretty easy, while it's 5 major and 5 minor keys without overblows. Plus using 3 overblows (or 3 valved bends) per 10 holes it's possible to play fully chromatically. ---------- Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
Good to see top modern players like Boris starting to use my PowerChromatic tuning. I called it that because I started using it on my chromatic harmonicas back in the early 1980s, but it works great on diatonics too, as Boris says. I have several 12 hole PowerChromatic Stretch Harps (diatonics made from two harps cut and pasted together) in regular use in my harp case.
Calling it major or minor is unnecessary though, because hole 1 can be any note you choose. The positions remain the same but just shift up or down the harp. It's similar to the situation with a Solo tuned 12 hole chrom that starts on C, or a 14 holer that starts on G: they are both in Solo tuning, just with a different starting note.
If you have a scale with no sharps or flats the possible configurations are (blow note to the left, pattern repeats in each octave):
POWER-CHROMATIC TUNING
1. CD DE FG AB 2. DE FG AB CD 3. AB CD DE FG 4. FG AB CD DE
When I started I used No.4 and tuned 12 chroms to that pattern, one in each key. They were custom made half-valved Hohner 270s with hand routed Lexan combs (I still have a few lying around). Later I favoured configuration #2, which is a good one for 10 & 12 hole harps.
On my current collection of 14 hole chroms I use pattern #1. It doesn't matter which note you start on, it's a great tuning for melody and improvising in lots of different positions unvalved or half-valved.
PowerChromatic tuning can be used nicely in combination with other tuning elements. It is a part of many of my diatonic harp tunings over the years, and you can see it in holes 4-8 (or 5-9, depending on how you define the starting note :)of the PowerBender.
Brendan comparing to others. I'd call power chromatic tunings 1. major, 2. dorian, 3. minor, 4. lydian.
My choice is #3, as it needs overblows at hole 4, comparing to 1 (overblow on hole 3), 2 (ob on hole 2), 4 (overblow on hole 1). I have 1847 config halfvalved but I remove valves from holes 4, 8 and 10 to use overblows. I want 12 holer later, but now I practice scales and some tunes. And I will try to make or order 12 holer when I will be enough good with it.
---------- Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
I play cross between PowerBender and PowerChromatic. I don't know what it would be called. It's up to Brendan to choose a name. Harps are partially valved.
blow: C E G C D F A C D F draw: D G B D E G B D E G
I half valve everything except hole 1, 6 and 10. For the same reasons as Boris does it.
I actually started off with getting a Solist Pro 12 for this tuning to get 3 full octaves. But the reeds are not durable at all... Now I play a Seydel 1847 customised by Jim. I'm hoping Seydel will start making steel 12-holers soon!
I use powerbender to some extent. Actually I use it in one of the song in our soon to be released album too. However, I've been thinking about making some adjustments to the PB as I want to be able to use the 4-5 draw headshake and chord when playing the blues. Perhaps just to make a change to the hole 5. I haven't had time to figure that out yet but if there is already some PB like alternative tuning that has this feature please share it! :)
@Micha: I use that combo too. I'd call it a Richter/PowerChromatic mix (Richter low octave, PowerChromatic for the rest of the harp). It's nice because you can combine the flowing melodic playing of PC with the fat bottom end chords of Richter. You can hear it here in a 12 hole Stretch Harp version:
@Boris: I can see now why you choose option 3 of PowerChromatic. I'm looking forward to hearing what you do with it! When will you feel ready to post a clip of your playing?
On my half-valved chromatic versions, the one overblow per octave is replaced by one slide push per octave to get a full chromatic scale.
One reason I like this instrument/tuning combination is that you get lots of enharmonics: every draw slide-out is duplicated by draw bend slide-in, and every blow slide-in is duplicated by draw bend slide-out. This gives plenty of options for alternate phrasing to get the most satisfying flow, or to play a difficult phrase more easily.
Last Edited by on Sep 25, 2011 11:50 PM
@isaacullah: LD Miller did some great harpboxing with the Natural Minor at SPAH 2009. Someone recorded this wee hours jam:
@Jim: Hearing Alex Paclin playing freely with great soul and expression on your True Chromatic tuning in the video below is a good example of how it takes two elements to make a useful tuning come alive: a well thought-out arrangement of notes plus LOTS of practice exploring it.
Another case in point is Eric Chafer's incredible playing on Augmented Tuning:
http://www.planetharmonica.com/EricChafer.htm
These are rare examples of alternate tunings being used by brilliant players who have really nailed them. In many respects standard Richter tuning is not very amenable to expressive improvising - but look what Howard Levy has achieved with it by dint of high musical intelligence and sheer hard work!
Richter has been around so long that trillions of player hours have been spent by millions of players around the world exploring it, for well over 100 years. Imagine the same devoted to any of the many excellent alternate tunings available!
Now at last it seems there is a growing openness to trying them out, and some of the players doing so will find one or the other suits them so well they'll devote all their attention to it. That will bring out an exciting new body of work in the years to come :-)
Last Edited by on Sep 25, 2011 11:53 PM
Hi, a few months ago I took Spiral/Circular tuning, it's great for many (non-blues) chords like bossa nova, django style or techno :o)
I have many tunings but I use it only for my workshops to show to my students a different kind of tuning. It's really hard to play on many tunings very fluently.
BTW I recommand you music of Alfred Hirsch, he uses diminished harmonica and he plays something like smooth modern electronical jazz. Coooool :o) Check http://www.myspace.com/alfredhirsch
I've been mixing Richter and Power Bender. I recently bought a chromatic harp (SCX-56) and was quite disappointed with the layout (did no research first). I guess I was expecting it to be like your "Jim's True Chromatic" tuning. I wish I read more before I bought so I didn't have 10 repeated notes and direction changes.
I use Lee Oskar harmonic minors when I play on my worship team. I'm not a real fan of Lee Oskars in general, but I've found these are a good way to play minor keyed songs that are of a Jewish flavor. I play mostly first position on these songs (which is a bit counter-intuitive for me as I'm predominantly a second position player). I still get a surprise now and then on some of the draw notes as they are just not what you expect. But these harps fit nicely with the team's format which includes accordion and violin. I only have six keys at this juncture. ---------- snakes in Seattle
@Brendan: Yeah, that's the video that inspired me to start harpboxing and to start using natural minor harps. I listen to that video from time to time, and still draw quite a bit of inspiration from it!
BTW, this thread had inspired me to do some tuning to set an idea I've had kicking around in my head to a harp. Basically, it's like the Richter Extended, but you only retune holes 5, 6, and 7. Holes 5 and 6 get tuned up a whole tone, and hole 7 gets tuned up one and a half tones. This way, the breath pattern for all your licks is now EXACTLY the same in the low and middle octaves. This is awesome for 2nd position blues playing. You can also still play all your 1st position licks the way you are used to high up on the harp, and you can still play in third position, but you will have to bend in some of the notes that were natural in the middle octave before. But, you now play 3rd position in the middle octave the same way you play 3rd in the lower octave, so it's not a difficult switch to figure out. You also have a lot more tongue blocked octave options now, since 2-5 draw is now an true octave, as well as 3-6 draw and 4-7 draw as well. This means you can do alot more riffs as octaves than you could before. Also, you can now move chord vamps up from the lower octave to the middle octave and play them exactly the same way, just one octave higher. This is very cool way to add interest to one chord grooves! You do loose the cool 4-5 draw double stop characteristic of blues playing, but the double stop that is there now still sounds pretty cool... I actually think that this tuning is a great way to bring a "fresh" sound to blues playing, without having to re-learn all your licks!
@aspkarp: You absolutely could do so, but if you left that double stop, then your root note would still only be available as a blow note in hole 6, and thus you are back to having to learn a new breath pattern for the same lick. When you have the root note in draw 5, then you can bend in and out of the root note just like you do on hole 2, which is one of the super cool things to this tuning. To me, all that outweighs the need for that one traditional blues sound that you get from that particular double stop. Also, the new double stop is fifth-octave now (instead of fifth-seventh), which is still a really cool sounding interval, and which I think you can use in pretty much the same way you used to use the traditional 4-5 double stop... ---------- == I S A A C ==
Oh, and one more thing I forgot to mention about this tuning that will be attractive for blues players is that you can get the blue third in the middle octave with NO need to overblow. It's just there as a bend in draw 6 (just like it is in draw 3). I'm an overblower, and while I do like the sound of a 6 overblow sometimes, I like the tonality of a the blue third much better as regular draw bend. I see the "blue third" more as a tonal range than a specific pitch, and with a draw bend, you can play around with the tonality, taking it all the way down to the second if need be, or bringing it all the way up to the major third if you want to. The tonal range of the 6 overblow is more constricted, even for the best players who can control their overblows to the utmost degree. Obviously, I'm not bagging on overblows (I love 'em!), but for a lot of blues playing, this way just sounds better to my ears.
EDIT: I've been thinking about names for this tuning. The candidates that I've got so far are "Doubled Richter", "2nd Heaven", "Ultimate Blues", and "Modern Blues". What do you guys think?
I have some Lee Oskar Harmonic Minors in Gm & Am & like them but limited in playing as I don't have a repertoire of ethnic tunes. I also have 2 LO natural minors in Am & Em but are little used. I have 2 Melody Makers in G & D but only ever use the G for a couple of tunes. I made up a couple of Paddy Richter harps one in G & another in D from what were pretty crappy cheap harps however I was surprised at how good they turned out. But again I rarely use them. ---------- HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
Actually I was thinking of having the second root note on 6 draw like in the powerbender. Also all the rest of the upper octave would be changed so that all the draws would be bendable. Kind of like having the powerbender except changing the hole 5 like it is in the richter...
Yeah, the Extended Richter tuning (credited to Richard Sleigh) changes all the draw notes of the upper octave too. That's what you're talking about, right? I chose NOT to do that because you would absolutely need to swap in new reeds for holes 9 and 10 as it requires tuning them both up 5 semitones. Another reason I chose not to retune past hole 7 was so that you can still play those nifty 1st position blues licks in the upper octave the same way you always could. My idea was to leave the best of the old, and combine them with a few new things to make a tuning that's really great for playing BLUES. This is NOT a tuning for those that like playing lot's of positions, or lot's of different musical styles. This tuning really is for those who want to play mainly 2nd position blues, but bring a fresh sound to it. Hence why I'm leaning towards the name "Modern Blues" for this tuning... ---------- == I S A A C ==
This is a very interesting discussion--@Jim, I would be interested in a Skype discussion--it usually gets difficult to work out a time that works for everybody though.
@Isaac--I'm going to build one of those "Modern Blues" tuned harps as soon as I get a little time--what a great idea--lots of potential in that, and I've got this C MB that I destroyed the 7 blow on to start out with.
By the way, Isaac, (going a little OT here) you said "I see the "blue third" more as a tonal range than a specific pitch" I just wanted to agree heartily with you on that--I have always thought of the "blue third" as being a "note in motion" more than a specific note. I have sometimes thought, in Adam's lessons, that he thinks of it as a specific note--so that definition obviously works for a world-class player--but one of the things I really love about slide guitar and harp is the wonderful endless opportunity's to f*ck around with that note--for me, that just never gets old. . . ----------
you can add it, I will schedule the time when we have enough people. I will also need people who are willing to speak (I assume most of those who answered YES to the question in the thread name?)
@oldwailer: YEah man! Give it a try. I built mine out of an A special 20 that I was under the hood replacing a 4 draw reed on anyway. I can't put it down! It's really addictive, and it's making me fall in love with the harp all over again! And yeah, man, it's harp and slide that can really play that blue third. I know exactly what you mean. It never gets old! there's just so much in that little tonal range there, you can make it sound different every time you play it!
@jim: I'd be down, but it depends on the time you schedule it. I've got a lot of constraints on my time, and the last time folks got an MBH group skype going on (I think it was germanharpist who organized it), it was at a time that I just couldn't do it. It's especially hard to schedule given all the time zones we encompass as a group... ---------- == I S A A C ==
Yeah, the time zones were a pain! GH and I ran them. My computer at the time wasn't up to the task of hosting them either, even with only about a 12 people.
I spent most of my time with my computer frozen trying to get people logged in. It was an old computer. :)
You know, I don't know if anyone out there has any programming skills, but it would be sort of neat if you could combine a rechargeable harmonica chart with a little bit of midi so people could layout different tunings and see if they like how they work. It's not as good as actually playing it, but at least you could hear the notes and chords and everything.
@Isaac--I've been planning out the harp I want to do with your "Modern Blues tuning" and I noticed that draw 7 and draw 8 would be the same note, unless I just don't understand something here? Is there something I'm missing?
@Jim--I've been using your tuning ap to figure out what harps to steal reeds from. I noticed that you have an "extended Richter (SBS)" in the tunings--but not the Richard Sleigh Extended Richter--I know, there are about a million of these tuning--just wondering if there is a particular reason for not including it?
Also, @Jim--is a "+12" really the same as a "0" in the next higher register? I only ask to clarify and make sure I'm not thinking wrong about this--it gets kind of like thinking about time travel for me when I'm trying to steal the right reed from the right harp to make a hybrid.
BTW--thanks again for the tuning ap--it's really handy to help figure out what to change out and what to re-tune. . . ----------
