chromaticblues
999 posts
Sep 13, 2011
10:24 AM
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I recently started playing out again and noticed that I didn't sound nearly as good as I use to. After alot of trail and error I finally figured out the problem. It was my custom harps that I didn't like! They sound great playing acoustically, but amped they are very high midrange annoying ear bitting bad! So I bought a bunch of different harps and started doing some evaluations. I have over fifty NOS Marine Bands from the 40's to the present. I have found certain harps are great for embossing, some you shouldn't and some just don't need it. OK the ww2 era MB's in the New York box do not need to be embossed. They sound and play great the way they are! Just set the reeds and sand the comb flat and they are perfect! The next generation is different! They are not perfect. The reeds are thicker and harder to play. These harps are great for making customs (embossing). These are also great harps for people that like to play hard! If you like to play hard and like the MB tone. Then they are the harps for you! They are a little to hard for me to play so I would have to emboss them. Which I have and the amped tone is much better the the amped tone of new MB's embossed by a mile! OK most people think the MB's from the 80's to 95 suck. Well it started before the 80's. The last MB's made in the cardbaord box's that do not say "Hicksville NY" are when they started playing crappy. These harps and the first plastic boxed version MB are like the modern Blues harps. Maybe and probably worse. 1995 to 2005 Marine Bands are probably very good harps. I don't have any, but I played SP 20's during that time period and LOVED them. So that brings us to the present day MB. Most people run these harps down, but I'm not going to. I'll give my version of the pros and cons. Pros They do not need to be embossed. The manufacturing process is better now than it has ever been. I use these harps unembossed for G A Bb. My A and Bb have no flaws at all. I have not taken them apart. Just set the reeds and soaked them in mineral oil. They play perfect! The G 3 draw is a little airy. I've played and taken so many harps apart that I know whats wrong before I open it. The reed is not centered becuase its rivet got bent alittle during installation. Cons they sound terrible embossed! I don't think that is a con. If it doesn't need to be embossed well then don't! I have harps that can prove this to be FACT! The harps above C play different. I don't like them at all! Don't like the way they sound, play or anything. I only use harps from the 60's above C. I emboss the slot about half way. This gievs me better response and they still sound better than new MB's. Man these harps can be played hard. I like that on the higher pitched harps, but not as much on the lower harps. I don't know why, but the new MB's feel easier to play bluesy on the low keys? There just easier to play!
All in All I was amaxed at how different each onw was. My post WW2 C harp that I bouhgt Brand New on Ebay for $24.95 is the best harp I have ever owned. It plays as easy as a custom with GREAT tone. I don't hear any air when playing amped. I don't like hearing air! That bothers me!
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Matzen
281 posts
Sep 13, 2011
11:51 AM
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Great post!
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nacoran
4587 posts
Sep 13, 2011
12:28 PM
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Nice post. Maybe a couple more paragraph breaks would make it even better though. I ran out of breath just reading it. One of these days I'll learn to read without moving my lips. :)
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bluemoose
605 posts
Sep 13, 2011
12:30 PM
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(Just shake your hips!)
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MBH Webbrain - a GUI guide to Adam's Youtube vids
FerretCat Webbrain - Jason Ricci's vids (by hair colour!)
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chromaticblues
1000 posts
Sep 14, 2011
5:39 AM
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Sorry about the run-on paragraph! I'm not great at typing what I'm thinking. I'm also not very good at typing. Other than that this shit is easy!
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barbequebob
1735 posts
Sep 14, 2011
7:54 AM
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I have several pre-WWI MB's and they are amazing!!! Even the worst of the bunch plays better than the stuff made from 1980-1995, which was their worst quality years. The reed material was the legendary bell metal brass that was soft but really strong and needed very little air to play them, plus they're much more wide open in the back than they've been since the 80's.
Joe Filisko traced the quality slide to the mid 60's as harmonica sales had slipped badly until the Beatles came around and then they had to put them out faster than ever before. The slide was very gradual from the 60's to 1980, and fter 1980, the quality dropped dramatically until they retooled in 1995-96.
I have them in C, Bb, F, and A and I gave the one in E to Jerry Portnoy years ago as a birthday present. I got them back in 1983 from an elderly harp player in PA packaged together for a grand total of $17.00 US, all in their original boxes.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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groyster1
1402 posts
Sep 14, 2011
10:46 AM
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I have 4 mb1896s that have been rebuilt by members of this forum-the piece of paper inside did have a hicksville ny address in them so I guess they were made during the inferior era
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chromaticblues
1001 posts
Sep 14, 2011
11:12 AM
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No groyster not at all! If they are in the cardbaord box and say "Hicksille USA" on the bottom of the box they are great harps to customize "emboss". If you don't emboss them they are alittle harder to play, but sound GREAT!
I'm not sure what harp your talking about groyster, but if it is in a plastic box unlike the current Marine Band boxs. Then yes it is junk!
Remember BQBob stated the quality started to slide in the 60's. Things didn't get bad untill they made the mid 70's changes.
I'll take a 60's Marine Band over anything made today by any company!
Edit: I was thinking about what BQBob said about the decline of quality and I would have to say that Joe Filisko is probably right, but I'm not sure what he was talking about? There are a few ways of judging the quality. The only thing I noticed any worse was how they were set up. The few NOS "New York New York" harps I bought were good right out of the box! I have taken some apart and the combs weren't any better looking than the 60's or 70's harps.
I've read BQBob's post about the saws getting dull and retooling. They were never good! If you have an old "New York" MB. Take it apart and sand the comb flat! Thats all it needs. DO NOT EMBOSS THE SLOTS! I don't know why, but they sound thin and shittyy after embossing. I know I've done it! Stupid!! It changes them for the worse by a mile! I think its because the reeds were thinner.
To me the WW2 era MB's aren't as loud, but if Blues is your thing then that isn't an issue. I'm guessing its because of the thinner reeds? When they stopped useing bell metal brass they had to make the reeds thicker so they would last. The reason why the Hicksville harps are harder to play is because of this new thicker reed made of different material. By no means are they not good harps! They are very good harps in my opinion. The coverplates were changed also. The engraving is deeper and better looking on the WW2 harps, but feels funny on my lipps. I'm just not use to it I guess.
I've read alot of theads and post about people playing to hard. I think the "Hicksville Harps" are the best choice of harp for poeple that like to get after it. I fall into this catagory myself! I won't even bring my WW2 harps out of the house! Those are recording harps!
One thing I forgot to mention is the fact that old harps have longer slots on the Db through F#. Unlike the new MB's. Just to shed some light on the quality of this era harp. I have a Db D and E that I didn't take apart and they play great! The Eb that I have I've worked on twice and it still suck. My F isn't very good either. I haven't taken it apart yet. Hopefully thats better than the Eb.
Anybody else out there do any Marine Band Era comparisons. It cost so much to buy these harps NOS. I'd like to have more WW2 harps in other keys and I'd like to have some 95 to 05, but I don't have the money or the time!
Last Edited by on Sep 14, 2011 4:56 PM
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HarveyHarp
303 posts
Sep 14, 2011
12:13 PM
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So, who knows the vintages of the reed plates that have round rivet heads instead of the cross hatched ones. They seem to have better reeds in them to me than the pre 1995 plates?? Bob??
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HarveyHarp
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chromaticblues
1002 posts
Sep 14, 2011
4:25 PM
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I've seen round rivets, but I think it was on a chromatic. I have two prewar Hohner 260's. That maybe where I saw them, but I'm not sure.
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barbequebob
1737 posts
Sep 15, 2011
9:55 AM
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During the 80's, they went to harder brasses, inclduing phosphor bronze and used short slot reeds, which drastically alterted the tone and made them more shrill sounding and the slot tolerances got sloppier and the saw marks got WAY worse and often had bad riveting jobs happening, not just being not flush flat, but riveted quite cock eyed and often off center badly.
The round head sounds more like pre-WWII.
The loudest OOTB MB's were the pre-WWI's and I got one that was brand new in the box totally unplayed and I just flipped out as to how good it played.
After the 50's, they used less metal on the cover plates and in the 80's the covers were closed up a lot more and they lost considerable volume doing that.
Some pre-WWII's are definitely louder than others and I have a D that, when I let Jerry Portnoy play it, he almost s**t himself playing it, as it was probably the loudest MB OOTB he had ever played, tand this was in 1984.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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groyster1
1404 posts
Sep 15, 2011
10:01 AM
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it amazes me how these marine bands older than methsulah still play that well too bad they dont have a good reputation today as an OOTB harp like the mb deluxe does
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Diggsblues
999 posts
Sep 15, 2011
10:20 AM
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I recently got a G special 20 best 0ut of the box
harmonica I can remember. The 6 OB is so fat and in
tune. The harp plays like butter.
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Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind
How you doin'
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Roverharp
17 posts
Sep 15, 2011
1:47 PM
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So, if I take those crappy 80's harps and emboss and get some quality Reynolds combs can they be made into magic harps or are they beyond help?
I ask because I'm going to start collecting custom combs anyway and I'm guessing that a majority of the cheap used harps on ebay are 80's vintage.
By the way, how much can be known about a harp's age from its packaging? After the cardboard boxes was it the soft vinyl envelope cases that came next? Then the hard plastic cases with varying sized pictures of the Marine band? And SP20s? MS models debuted around '91 yes?
Rover
Last Edited by on Sep 15, 2011 2:30 PM
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HawkeyeKane
189 posts
Sep 15, 2011
2:00 PM
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@Roverharp
The SP20 showed up in the mid 70's. The original Blues Harp a little bit before that.
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Hawkeye Kane
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HarveyHarp
304 posts
Sep 15, 2011
4:24 PM
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@Roverharp. The old Hand Made harps are a crapshoot. Sometimes they optimise well, and other times they don't. Joe Spiers says he can tell which ones will optimize well, and which ones won't. However, even though he told me how to tell, I still can't do it. So 2what I do, is take the harp apart and just do one or two holes, and see if the harp is happy. If not, I just use it tor parts.
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HarveyHarp
Last Edited by on Sep 15, 2011 4:25 PM
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rbeetsme
424 posts
Sep 15, 2011
5:48 PM
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I picked up a vintage Bb at an antique store this summer, cardboard box, pasted band photo, Hicksville address, star of David model. Looks new, plays great! I also recently picked up a Herb Shriner Hoosier boy harp in a harp lot. Also ew condition. It plays really well too! Too bad they only came in C.
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groyster1
1408 posts
Sep 15, 2011
6:47 PM
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my old mb1896 have a hickxsville ny address do thet have the vintage tuning? they have been tweaked by 2 members of this forum they sure sound better than they did especially the 1896-1996 model which was a sad sack of shit until harvey rebuilt it
Last Edited by on Sep 15, 2011 6:54 PM
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chromaticblues
1005 posts
Sep 16, 2011
6:30 AM
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I would have to say that I have not found the same thing to be true of the Pre-war MB's as what Bob says. I like the way they sound. Better than any harp I've ever played, but as to say they are loud! NO! He did say that was in 1984. Now comparing a Pre-war MB to anything made between those two periods. Yes! The present day Marine Bands are consistantly loud. Do I think they sound better? NO! They are loud though, and from what I have experienced lately the qaulity seems to be very consistant!
I have taken many Pre-war Marine Bands apart and they are not perfect by any means! The reedplates are pitted due to very bad manufacturing pratices in the brass factory. For the most part that doesn't matter untill you buy one on E-bay and find out one of those pitts are right in the middle of where one of the slots were cut. Which means it CAN'T work very well (or atleast that reed will sound airy). As long as you didn't spend more $20 its not a problem, but I see people buying them for $50 and more. Thats crazy people! You don't realize how big a chance it is.
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