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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Eyes Wide Shut Harp and Gigging Thoughts
Eyes Wide Shut Harp and Gigging Thoughts
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harpdude61
1026 posts
Sep 12, 2011
1:41 PM
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I can't help it. I cannot break the habit of playing with my eyes closed when the band leader gives me a break.
I don't practice this way. Is it my way of hiding or does having no visual make me hear better? How about focus better? Relax better? Play with more soul?
Don't worry, I do not miss signals and am very aware of what is happening with the other musicians.
I'm starting to notice myself using body English as well..even to the point of affecting breathing....Since watching Deak Harp I can't be still. I don't want to do a dance number while I play, but I don't want to look like a stiff either.
I'm playing a few 3-set gigs now and finding out that there is soooo much more to learn than just being able play along pretty good with a backing track on my computer.
Do any of you re-use licks? only disguise them a little with a tongue pattern or speed. If you can play a full gig without repeating licks then you can catch a fly with chopsticks in the rain with your eyes closed.
I've started practicing with a 2nd part time band and these guys seem to do 2/3 songs in the key of C. I love my high and low F harp both but geez....Can you guys sense it when a band plays 3 or 4 songs in a row in the same key?
The first band I'm in have been together for many years. So they do NOT practice. Their mindset is that all I need to know is the key and I should be able to play anything! It is all blues.
One more thing and I will shut up. The leader likes to play 2 or 3 blues songs with no harp, then bring me up for the rest of the night. I'm fine with that. He has paid me at the end of each night and I am tickled...but..I cannot help but wonder about the split. I bring no equipment other than my amp. I don't think I could ever ask since they have been so good to me. I don't feel like i deserve an equal share..should I?
Please share your experience and thanks for letting me share mine.
Duane "Catfish" Frye
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HawkeyeKane
174 posts
Sep 12, 2011
1:50 PM
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I play with my eyes shut a lot myself. Normally it isn't a problem. I'm so used to the songs we play that I know what's coming. Dynamics are probably the one issue it can present. But I don't see anything wrong with it in the least. Helps you see the music better in your head. I do the same thing singing sometimes too.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Greg Heumann
1264 posts
Sep 12, 2011
3:08 PM
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My eyes close frequently - it simply helps me focus, listen, and play. However you HAVE to open your eyes as you approach the end of every 12 bars to ensure you know what's going on with the band - either to direct or take direction - hand off solos, take them, signal breaks, break downs, etc. Eye contact between band members is really important.
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/Greg
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eharp
1457 posts
Sep 12, 2011
3:26 PM
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the average listener is not gonna tell when there are a couple of songs in a row that are the same gig.
i dont think anyone can get thru 2-3 sets without repeating licks. if use different articulation, timing and dynamics you'll get away with it all week long!
not sure about you band mates, but mine spend most of their time looking at their guitars and keyboards, so i figure if i spend 1/2 my solos looking at the crowd (really, slightly over their heads) i got the rest of the band beat. then throw in the eye contact during some singing and comping and i am a real social butterfly!
we do a couple of songs where the harp isnt used. i make the band play those at the beginning of sets so i dont have to walk off then back on. but i have been staying up there during those songs and "dancing" to the song and also comping with the mic volume turned off.
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Jehosaphat
93 posts
Sep 12, 2011
4:06 PM
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I with you on that staying in the same key thing .We used to often do 5 or 6 blues in E one after another.
Makes it hard if your only a Sat night warrior to keep the Harping fresh.A key change can at least give you some new dynamics to play with.
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MagicPauley57
101 posts
Sep 12, 2011
6:25 PM
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at the moment , playing mainly rock n roll and rockabilly , we have to create the set so there's not too many songs in the same key and certainly not bunched together , if we do play a couple in E then the groove will have to be quite different , otherwise it gets confusing and last saturday , i sarted to think hang on, have we just played this ?
On sunday at the open mic night , i decided i wouldn't play guitar at all , and just stick to harp , we did a few of the songs from the regular band ,but with me on harp and they sounded like a new animal when comping in harp , after that it was my turn to sing a few old blues numbers and play harp , we did quite well in choosing 4 that all were in a totally different key and feel , i like to stretch myself and try new things . as far as eyes shut or not , because i wear glasses , i can look like i'm looking at the audience but i shut myself off when i want to and not focus on anyone , but keep a close eye on the band at the same time , sort of trick i taught myself ,
nothing wrong with repeating licks as long as they make sense within the song , that said our double bass player also plays guitar and for whatever reason , he always plays the same guitar lick ( i think from eddy cochran 's 20 flight rock) unitl i can't stand to listen to it , when i've finished playing in rehearsal , i sometimes have to either turn my amp off , or put it away so he can't do that bloody riff ! when i'm trying to enjoy a quiet coffee and a smoke!
Last Edited by on Sep 12, 2011 6:28 PM
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Joe_L
1449 posts
Sep 12, 2011
11:34 PM
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I stopped playing with my eyes closed a few years ago. I think it is important to keep an eye on the bandleader or singer. When I don't, I pay the price. The singer will move back toward the mic while I am still playing. That makes both of us look like uncommunicative doofuses.
When soloing, I like to make eye contact with someone in the audience.
Personally, I don't like to play three consecutive tunes in the same key unless varying the tempo or feel of the song dramatically.
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groyster1
1395 posts
Sep 12, 2011
11:48 PM
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@harpdude
Im surprised the band you speak of does not practice yet does gigs-of course playing in the right key is a given,anybody can tell when they are off key and the harp I need for a key in crossharp is 2nd nature but the old cliche rings true everytime-practice makes perfect
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Baker
156 posts
Sep 13, 2011
5:25 AM
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I will often play with my eye's closed as a way to really focus and feel what is going on, but as Greg says you do need to look around at key points in order to keep up with what is going on.
I don't think there is a massive problem with playing a few songs in the same key in a row, my band does it regularly. The important thing is to make sure the groove changes. As far as harp playing goes, try taking different approaches on different songs. Maybe one you only play a solo and nothing else, perhaps comp on another etc. Also changing positions can help. Try and do one in 3rd position for example.
When I went to see Kim Wilson play, he did several songs at the beginning of his set which had no harp. My view it that it should be about the song. Our band does several songs which I feel there is no place for harp on. I just get off the stage and sit out. I feel this also helps to vary the overall performance, which can only be a good thing I think.
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hvyj
1772 posts
Sep 13, 2011
7:25 AM
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It's unprofessional to play so many songs in the same key back to back or even in the same set. Whether or not the audience can tell it's because they are in the same key it produces a sameness or monotony that is unhelpful to keeping the crowd engaged and getting hired back for repeat gigs. Experienced band leaders go to considerable effort to call sets that have variety in the keys of the tunes--it's one of the differences between a pro and an amateur or semi-pro. Of course, there are occasional exceptions like when the crowd is up and dancing and the band goes directly from one tune right into the next without stopping. But, professionals in the music business will react negatively to a band that stays in the same key most of the time.
As for rehearsals, it's pretty amazing what really good experienced musicians can do with relatively little preparation. But not all players are in that category. One way to compensate for lack of rehearsal time is to ask the band leader or another knowledgeable musician in the band for the chord changes to certain tunes or the specific notes that make up a particular hook or melody you are uncertain about. Then you can practice that on your own to tighten up your contribution to the performance.
As far as compensation is concerned it sort of depends if you are working as a sideman or if are a member of the band. If you're just along for the ride (hired to play harp) you get paid what you get paid--which may or may not be an equal cut. If you are a full time member of the band (which usually involves contributions of time and effort besides just showing up with your personal equipment to play gigs), then an equal split is more usual. But there are no hard and fast rules.
Last Edited by on Sep 13, 2011 2:51 PM
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oldwailer
1711 posts
Sep 13, 2011
10:51 AM
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I'm with hvyj on the same key thing--I don't think the audience will ever be able to tell in so many words--they won't walk up and say "why do you play in the same damn key all the time--" but they will get bored and without knowing why they'll just decide to go see who's playing at another place across town.
I mostly don't close my eyes much--I'm on the lookout for people throwing stuff!
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Oldwailer's Web Site
Always be yourself--unless you suck. . .
-Joss Whedon
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harpdude61
1030 posts
Sep 13, 2011
1:30 PM
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Great responses..thank you all.
hvyj....The guy has never officially asked me to join the band but always invites me to play, thanks me, and pays me.
I can see 3 guys who have been together for 15 years not wanting a new member but a hired hand..hey..I'll take it. No set-up or booking and I still get paid (a little) to play.
When bassist Bill Wyman left the Rolling Stones did they replace him? Nope, but they always had a bass player. They earned their niche and I understand.
Last Edited by on Sep 13, 2011 1:31 PM
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nacoran
4597 posts
Sep 13, 2011
3:41 PM
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I'd expand on what hvyj suggested about having the band leader give you a list of chord changes. Grab a cheap recorder and record your show so you can listen to how everyone is playing it. Even better, if you can get a recording done in tracks (either live through a mixer or laying them down one by one) you can practice different variations every which way.
As for playing in a single key, is there a musical reason for it? There is a YouTube performer I follow. She writes great songs but for a long time her recordings sounded really strained on either the high or low notes. She just doesn't have a huge vocal range. She finally found a key that works for her. She might be able to go a key either direction. If it's the singers range there may not be much you can do about it. If it's just laziness, then you should see if you can't get them to mix it up a bit.
Our band takes turns singing, so we switch keys to fit each singer's range. I'm partial to Bb myself because I can comfortably choose to between singing high or singing low and still fit the whole melody, but even on the songs I sing we mix the keys- a couple Bb's, a B, a C, and an E.
As for playing with your eyes closed, I think it depends on the song. If you are playing something slow and soulful with your eyes closed it will look like you are deep and in tune with your inner self. If you are playing something fast with your eyes closed you'll look silly. You can always use sunglasses and if you ever do find yourself missing hand signals or stage direction just by yourself a shock collar. Give the singer the button to activate it!
(Seriously though, no one ever mention that idea to a harmonica hater. We'll end up fitted with bark collars set to go off whenever a harmonica plays... actually, that might make a funny video. I may have to do something with that.) :)
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MagicPauley57
102 posts
Sep 13, 2011
5:57 PM
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mainly between myself , the drummer and our lead/backing singer , we spend a lot of time carefully composing the set list , and in rehearsals we record it and send it via email to the others ( bass player ) to listen to and listen back for anything that moght need tweaking here and there , if you mange the band yourelf and be organisd and business minded about it , then you will caertainly get more gigs off the back of it . recently we've got a gig every week , until the endof october , and then i want to do some more blues related gigs with another project which is on the back burner , i don't do it full time as i've got a full time job , and also car shows etc , i like to have one hobby paying to support the other , hopefully i'll have the old pontiac back in better tune soon , ( need engine out ,job , due to piston slap !)
also because my main band i play guitar in , i need a seperate venture to go out and play harp more
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