Tommy the Hat
204 posts
Aug 18, 2011
2:35 PM
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At present I have 7 keys. A,Bb,C,D,E,F,and G. Six of those are SP20's. I also have an extra C harp that I use as my carry harp just to practice in the car and such; that one is a Marine Band. I like the way the SP 20's play better than the Marine band so I was thinking of getting another harp, cheaper, maybe a Big River to use as my carry. Also down the road I was looking at trying other harps. I want a Seydel Soloist pro and I may try a Manji at some point. But it seems that everytime I want to try a new harp I end up looking at the Key of C. I almost ordered a big river to throw in the car but then realized I was ordering another C.
I find C to be easy to practice on and I find a lot of songs that are playable when I'm playing CD's in the car. But I'm asking because maybe I just don't know enough or haven't carried another key, to know that there are a lot more (perhaps) songs in the key of...whatever. The big River will replace my C marine band for the car. But then when I get the soloist that would probably be another C. Ok, I guess this is getting confusing. Is there a benefit to carrying a C? Or am I just stuck in that key?
When I practice at home I use different keys depending on what I'm doing or playing to.
Does any of this make sense? lol
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Tommy
Bronx Mojo
Last Edited by on Aug 18, 2011 2:37 PM
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hvyj
1675 posts
Aug 18, 2011
3:26 PM
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Just curious: Why do you have E instead of Eb?
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Jorge Jane
20 posts
Aug 18, 2011
3:35 PM
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Hey Tommy i always carry two in my car a C and an A harp although i have about 8 and i just ordered A and C customs from Chris Renolds which i haven't received yet cant wait i plan on using those to play not practice on. i try to stick to just those two keys for now i found that every key bends at a different point so i didn't want to get to complicated. you know i'm also starting out but i hope that helps.
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Rich
52 posts
Aug 18, 2011
3:38 PM
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I keep a GM in A in the car just for noodling around. I'd def recommend a Solist Pro. I've got in my case MB's, an MBD, an SP20, GM's, a Lee Oskar, a Pro harp MS and a Solist Pro and it is my fave harp by far.
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garry
93 posts
Aug 18, 2011
3:45 PM
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@hvyj: it depends on what kind of people you play with. my basic 7 also has an E, not an Eb. i carry an Eb as well, but hardly ever use it. i think bands that are more rock or blues/rock oriented than straight blues tend to play in B vs. Bb, at least in my experience.
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Tommy the Hat
206 posts
Aug 18, 2011
3:59 PM
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@hvyj
About 20 years ago I attempted to learn the harp and I bought the standard C. When I bought a second harp I didn't know any better and just grabbed one off the rack and it turned out to be E (I looked at it when I got home). It sat in my draw for 20 years and when I put my set together recently, I threw that one in there since it still played and it fit between D and F...lol. It's a Marine band. It doesn't play great but it plays and it saved me the price of a harp since I was buying about 4 at the time.
Well, that's how I ended up with it, but now you have me thinking because I didn't know that an Eb would have been better. I got the Bb because of "Help Me."
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Tommy
Bronx Mojo
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Gig74
66 posts
Aug 18, 2011
4:10 PM
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I tend to carry around a Suzuki harpmaster in A, the harp itself is seemingly indestructible and plays well, also when I get a chance to play with friends and family they often play in the key of E.
Can't seem to leave the house without a harp though, but as addictions go it could be worse :o)
Greg
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Living the dream and learning the blues one little trouble at a time.
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hvyj
1677 posts
Aug 18, 2011
4:18 PM
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Eb is a more useful harp than E. An Eb harp gives you Bb in second position, F in third position, C minor in fourth position, and G minor in fifth position. I get a whole lot of mileage from my Eb, but not that much from my E. FWIW.
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Tommy the Hat
208 posts
Aug 18, 2011
4:19 PM
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That's 3 "A" harps in this thread. Popular key? I'm not sure I'm thrilled with A for noodling or playing along with songs in the car. I don't know why I'm drawn to the C. Sort of like cutting the apron strings so to speak. I like Bb also.
Maybe I'll go with the C for my car and general carrying since it will be replacing the Marine band which is a C. I have a Delta Frost which I really like and it's in D. A "D" harp might not be a bad Idea.
Hmmm decisions decisions.
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Tommy
Bronx Mojo
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Joe_L
1424 posts
Aug 18, 2011
4:21 PM
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@hvyj - I carry an E harp. A couple of singers that I accompany will do tunes in the key of B. There are times when I don't want to play an A harp in third position.
@Tommy the Hat - If your car has an airbag, it may not be a good idea to play while driving. A harmonica could do some real damage when an airbag deploys.
If you aren't singing or leading the band, the most important harps to have are the harps in the key that the singer is singing in. A couple of months ago, I played a tune in F#.
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Tommy the Hat
209 posts
Aug 18, 2011
5:12 PM
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Ok I know how everyone is racking there brains in an effort to help me, but you can all relax now. lol.
The deed is done. I went into the search function and looked up Big Rivers and got too many mixed reviews. That harp is $23 at Rockin' Rons so I browsed around a bit. I called him and he is sending me a Seydel Blues session for $28. Better deal I think.
Just before that I went out to my car (I'm at work) and played my "C" Marine band. I like that harp and think it plays ok...but just "OK." The 4 hole draw sounds great, 5 and six are pretty good too and the one hole is fine. Actually I like that harp and think it plays well. All accept that damn 3 hole!
I don't play much above 6 but they seem ok also. The 2 hole draw plays well but not like my SP20. The Marine band isn't as loud on 2 draw. 3 draw is where the problem lies. It is way too low; lower than the rest of the harp by a lot. Not loud enough low. I've tried everything as far as breath control, embouchure etc. The bends are a bit difficult and they peter out quickly, I can't sustain them. I don't have this problem on my other harps. Maybe it's me maybe it's the harp; who cares. At this point I'm just wasting learning time by not getting good notes. To learn I have to get good notes. I can't play well at home then fight for sounds/notes when I practice out of the house. So I'm replacing that harp.
I'll keep it in my locker at work or something. Harps at easy reach everywhere....that sounds about right.
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Tommy
Bronx Mojo
Last Edited by on Aug 18, 2011 5:16 PM
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nacoran
4464 posts
Aug 18, 2011
6:25 PM
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I carry a set of 12 Majors, a low low F and a minor tuned harp. I put 2 cheap 7 harp cases in my book bag and I'm off. I'm lucky enough to have band members who can switch keys easily- both my A harps, my regular and my back-up, have been a little wonky lately.
At home I used to use a little plug-in for Windows Media Player called Muse-On, but it's not supported in newer versions. It could tell you what key a song was in which took some of the tedium out of sorting through a bunch of songs. Although I don't encourage playing while driving I would make playlists using Muse-On all in one key. There are other programs to find the key, probably some phone apps. DJ's use them a lot to know what songs they can mix. Even Audacity will tell you the song key, although it's a clunky inelegant solution compared to a dedicated key finder. If you are out and about having a playlist in one key is nice. (Actually, when I say one key I'm cheating a bit. I like to switch between 1st and 2nd position on songs and play minor songs on a major harp. That gives me a little wider selection.) There are also sites that list song keys. If you learn a little guitar tab you can look up guitar tab and figure out the key too.
edit: That is to say, if you only have room for one harp, build a playlist around it.
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Nate
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Last Edited by on Aug 18, 2011 6:29 PM
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dougharps
93 posts
Aug 18, 2011
6:43 PM
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For gigs I carry all 12 keys plus backup harps in the 8 popular keys Eb thru E by 5ths, plus a high G and low F. For gigs I have 7 chromatics by 5ths, Bb thru E. I have some melody makers and minors that I occasionally bring if I think I might use them. I use an Fm for Green Onions.
I gradually built up my harp collection with gig money, starting out a long time ago with a few.
B, F#, Db, Ab are useful when the band is tuned down a half step. If you get hired on as a sideman, or for studio work, or have been invited to sit in, it is handy to have those keys, because they could be tuned down.
Eb and Bb are often useful for songs that were originally recorded with horns.
But most of the time I just carry a C and an A. They cover the popular blues keys of G and E in second, and can cover other keys in other positions. Those two harps can cover a lot of territory.
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Doug S.
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gene
865 posts
Aug 18, 2011
7:24 PM
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"...to know that there are a lot more (perhaps) songs in the key of...whatever...."
Look at the circle of fifths. Generally, the more sharps or flats a key has, the less it is used in songs. (Not an entirely accurate statement, I guess, but it's close enough for the purpose of your question.) So the key at the top of the circle (C) would be the most used key. Then F and G would follow closely behind, tying for second place. Then Bb and D, then Eb and A. There's your basic seven-pack.
Last Edited by on Oct 20, 2011 1:48 AM
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KingoBad
839 posts
Aug 18, 2011
7:43 PM
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Don't forget to get your concealed harp carry permit for "Gussing."
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Danny
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jbone
615 posts
Aug 18, 2011
9:55 PM
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hm. i remember the times i had 2 or 3 keys and needed more. these days i have most all keys in one model or another. A, Ab, Bb, C, D, Dm, E, Eb, F, low F, G, baritono C chromatic, G chromatic, and a 365 14 holer (?), maybe it's a 12. i use most all of them but some much less than others. i don't know how it is other places but i use A, D, G, and C chromatic quite a lot. also F. mostly i play 2nd and 3rd with some 1st thrown in.
understand, i have been a gigging musician for about 20 years, not as my sole income but i have had times where i needed every harp i had in a given week.
i keep 2 each of my higher mortality harps- A, C, D, F, G, Bb. my case is a weird mix of brands- hohner, bushman, hering, suzuki mostly. over the years i've tried a lot of harps out from cheep huang and johnson up to $100 suzuki pure. in a pinch a cheep harp in the key you need is better than a high dollar harp with one bad reed. it's become rarer and rarer that i blow out a reed very quickly at all.
to me if you're serious about playing the thing, and you are not howard levy-esque (he plays everything on a C harp, gets all the notes with bends and overblows)
you will find that you end up needing most keys of harp unless you sit at home and play to the same few cd's all the time. no shame in that but once it becomes a public or social activity, you will run across other musicians who play in weird keys and there's only one or 2 harps that will do. i once started hitting a jam where the gal who ran it threw me a curve ball every week until i had most of the sharps and flats as well as the majors. i still feel like i owe her a debt of gratitude.
i don't carry one harp around although i did early on- say the first 3 or 4 years (slow hard headed learner).
i either have them all in my case or none at all.
i suggest a hohner sp20 or big river if you are pretty new to harp. these are durable work horse harps and can be found at a lot of stores across the nation and world, if harps are sold there.
always remember- you get what you pay for, a $5 harp will sound good for a short time and then fail usually. a $50 harp will treat you right if you treat it right ie don't try to suck the 4 draw down your throat. and you may succeed!
one other thing- i would keep the harp in a decent case to keep lint and other crap out of it.
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nacoran
4466 posts
Aug 18, 2011
9:58 PM
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Gene, except I got asked by another band if I wanted to come up and play along in Ab the other day! My A harp and my Ab are Blues Harps and I really need to take them apart and do some regapping. They both have some sticky holes.
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Nate
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Tommy the Hat
210 posts
Aug 19, 2011
4:51 AM
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Thanks guys. There is a lot of information here. But maybe you missed the part where I said I already made a decision and ordered a Seydel Blues session from Rockin'Rons? It's done...lol. We really got deep into this. I mean, now we have the circle of 5ths and harps by the case....all 7 keys etc! You guys are so enthusiastic....gotta love it.
All I wanted was one harp to carry in my pocket for times I may be waiting for my wife out in the parking lot. Or for driving to work, or for any of those other odd nothing to do practice opportunities when I'm not at home with access to my case. One knock around harp....that's it!! lol
I'm a beginner, I'm not playing gigs or may be asked to play and be short on harps etc. Just an extra cheap harp to throw in my pocket.
I got it.
Thanks for that circle of 5ths thing....I can use that!
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Tommy
Bronx Mojo
Last Edited by on Aug 19, 2011 4:52 AM
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groyster1
1292 posts
Aug 19, 2011
6:48 AM
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I agree that Eb is much more useful than E-my 7 best playing harps are A Bb C D Eb F G but you do need the other keys in case
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gene
867 posts
Aug 19, 2011
7:27 PM
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"...All I wanted was one harp to carry in my pocket for times I may be waiting for my wife out in the parking lot...."
In that case, whichever one suits your fancy at the time.
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jbone
618 posts
Aug 19, 2011
8:54 PM
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some players get stuck on a particular brand and model of harp and don't do well if face with a different harp. many is the time i've heard the complaint that the big river hohner is leaky and impossible to play, yet i used them almost exclusively for a couple of years.
and did pretty dang well with them. they just respond differently.
i have out of necessity and curiosity bought a lot of different make and models over a lot of years. and learned to appreciate most of them for what they could do. my doubles in my harp case are rarely the same model as my primary harp in a given key. they all have a different flavor and hence usage. some are shrill and sound hokey while others can get that deep dark growl. it's in the ear- and lips- of the beholder.
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Tommy the Hat
220 posts
Aug 20, 2011
3:51 AM
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I hear ya jbone.
I was just wondering what a popular key might be (if there was one) to just keep in your pocket. I'm not great at positions yet. Just a little third and first (obviously in addition to second).
I seem to always gravitate towards C when buying a new harp especially a new brand. But I was wondering if that is because I'm not that experienced and C becomes a comfort key because as beginners we start there. That's why I was inquiring.
Yesterday I tried different harps (A-C and D) with the usual CD's I listen to and found that the C and D fit best with those songs. "A" wasn't a good fit. I got a lot of use out of the "D". I didn't use F, E,G, because I don't care for them and I left Bb alone also ...well for no specific reason really. The Cd's I tried were Sonny I and II, Little Walter and a Muddy Waters Tribute Cd. I really used D for a good amount of songs. I believe most were Sonny Boy II.
But for some reason I like to start a new brand with C. After starting this thread, I ordered a Seydel Blues session in C to carry. I'm also getting an Optimized Seydel soloist pro from Dave Payne (for my regular collection, not for the car) and that is C also. I've decided that C will (at least for now) be my starting point on any new brands/types. Middle of the road I guess.
Thanks.
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Tommy
Bronx Mojo
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garry
98 posts
Aug 20, 2011
4:46 PM
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@tommy: the seydel blues session is a really nice harp. one thing to note is that rockin' ron's sells replacement reedplates for those (and other) harps, which can save you some cash if/when you wear it out. and i'm not certain, but i believe the reedplates from the session steel will fit them as well.
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Joe_L
1436 posts
Aug 20, 2011
7:49 PM
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Tommy - you should go to a site like David Barretts and find out what keys the songs are in. Then you can use the right harp. Rice Miller recorded a lot of tune in G and A. The C and D harps would get a lot of use. Depending on which Little Walter CD, the keys could be all over the map. It might be a good idea to look it up.
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Gnarly
101 posts
Oct 19, 2011
11:05 PM
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I would buy a cheap chromatic (like the Educator) and carry that around.
That'll keep you busy!
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Pluto
181 posts
Oct 20, 2011
1:02 PM
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In 35 years of playing, I've never used an E. That the F and the Eb are too high for me. I'd rather play 1st position A anyway. I'd also rather carry an Ab for 3rd position Eb stuff. I find most Eb songs are swingin' anyway, and that lends itself more to 3rd position. I carry a low F instead of the squeaky standard. If the low is too low, you can always use a Bb in 3rd position as well.
Last Edited by on Oct 20, 2011 1:03 PM
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rbeetsme
437 posts
Oct 20, 2011
7:54 PM
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I play ukulele, a lot of tunes in C. I prefer to play in 2nd position so the F harps get used a lot. I also have a couple of low F harps if I get tired of the high pitch. I recently picked up a Hohner 365 in F, now I have a low and high F in one harp. I can't begin to list all of the sets of harps I have in various makes and configurations. They all get used though! Occasionally some dolt makes a comment about ditching all my diatonics and just playing a chromatic. I wonder if he made the same comment to Howard Levy, PT Gazell or Charlie McCoy?
Last Edited by on Oct 20, 2011 7:57 PM
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Gnarly
102 posts
Oct 20, 2011
11:32 PM
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Yeah, I got that comment once--so I pulled out the chromatic and showed it to him.
One of my students built me a case, so I am now taking 40 diatonics to my gig! Plus a few chroms . . .
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rbeetsme
438 posts
Oct 21, 2011
5:52 AM
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I have some chromatics too, fun to play but not played often. I recently went to a harp meet-up and there was a well known chord harp player there. He had 7 of them in a suitcase. Wonder what he'd have to say to that guy!
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walterharp
732 posts
Oct 21, 2011
6:36 AM
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one of the most important things for me with a single carry harp is a good case that is not too big, seals well, and does not let the harp rattle around too much. This protects the harmonica, and keeps down the annoying rattle when walking around. that said, if i am taking just one harp with me to practice a bit, i switch the key around to mix it up a little on what is easy to play... working on the high notes is much easier and easier on the ears with a lower harp such as an A or a G
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Miles Dewar
1135 posts
Oct 21, 2011
6:46 AM
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Can't go wrong with an "F" harp. "D" is sweet.
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groyster1
1512 posts
Oct 21, 2011
8:36 AM
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I prefer to play Bb C D-they are middle keyed harps with pitch not too high or too low
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MP
1861 posts
Oct 21, 2011
2:19 PM
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Pluto,
i think you have a typo there. an Ab harp in 3rd pos is Bb, not Eb. a Db harp in 3rd pos is Eb.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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Pluto
182 posts
Oct 21, 2011
5:55 PM
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MP,
What I meant was I would play an Ab in 3rd position (normally played 2nd position in Eb)
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MP
1862 posts
Oct 21, 2011
9:14 PM
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Pluto,
ah, i see. rather than play 2nd pos on an Eb to get Bb you use 3rd on the much under-appreciated Ab harp.:)
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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Andrew
1443 posts
Oct 22, 2011
12:16 AM
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"...All I wanted was one harp to carry in my pocket for times I may be waiting for my wife out in the parking lot...."
A perfectly legitimate want. I usually carry vocab books. If the dog's in the car the harp will drive him nuts. Also, I can learn vocab whilst sitting in clothing stores waiting for her to reject everything after looking at it three times, whereas I can't play the harp there.
I always have my A to hand, but that's because it's my sweetest harp (I've done most work on it). I don't know what I'll do when it dies. Probably use my G until a new A arrives in the mail. If I had the money to try out several makes, I guess I'd buy harps in C, but I don't know why. It would probably make more sense to buy them all in A.
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Andrew.
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Those who are tardy do not get fruit cup.
Last Edited by on Oct 22, 2011 12:18 AM
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Gnarly
103 posts
Oct 22, 2011
1:37 AM
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OK, even tho Tommy already made his decision, etc . . .
What about the Seydel Big 6?
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snakes
650 posts
Oct 22, 2011
2:00 PM
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My gig case has two of every key (except only one F#). I also have my tremolos and chromatics in there. For my carry harp I usually take one of the harps I find hard to play just to make practice out and about more productive. That is usually a Marine Band (I've had bad luck as out of the 5 or 6 I've bought most of them are clunkers that are hard to bend), a Lee Oskar, or a Hohner Blues harp.
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snakes in Seattle
Last Edited by on Oct 22, 2011 2:01 PM
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