florida-trader
6 posts
Jun 11, 2011
6:29 AM
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We've been having a pretty lively conversation about combs. One thing we know for sure - we are not lacking for a shortage of replacement/custom makers. I guess that's good for the harp community because it gives us lots of choices.
So here is my question. I've noticed that some make combs with the tines protruding well beyond the reed plate. They are rounded and smoothed to be sure so it's not the same as the classic issue with MB combs swelling and becoming uncomfortable to play. In my conversations with my customers, I've had those who have stated a preference for tines that are flush with the reed plates and for tines that protrude a little.
What is your preference and why?
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Seven.Oh.Three.
84 posts
Jun 11, 2011
7:05 AM
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I'm not sure if I have a preference. I like classic MB so I guess you could say flush. Except I do like the comb on my special 20 which I think protrudes A bit. One day I'd like to try a protruding comb on one of my MB's. Guess this doesn't help you.
7.o.3.
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nacoran
4196 posts
Jun 11, 2011
10:18 AM
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The rounded tips accomplish a combination of several things... it means smoother edges for your lips to slide along, and it means less contact area too. It also creates a slightly larger hole and a smaller divider, which means it's easier to get a little bit of the next note over (which can be a good thing or a bad thing.) By making them protrude a little you get a nice feel for the start of each hole. I haven't tried one of the ones with really radical protruding combs, but I have some slightly protruding combs (basically they start to round the second they hit the edge of the harp) and they are very comfortable.
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Nate
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Jaybird
233 posts
Jun 11, 2011
1:13 PM
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Doesn't anybody make combs with holes instead of slots? Like the comb on the Special 20.
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nacoran
4197 posts
Jun 11, 2011
1:59 PM
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Jaybird, I think Randy Sandoval's site said he used to, but that it was too time consuming. Hering has a harp with rounded holes, but I don't think I remember anyone else. You could try looking at the list of customizers in my Thread Organizer thread. It would be trickier than a regular comb. I think Hering might get around it with a separate mouth piece. I think theirs is metal. Someone might be able to do that in wood with two separate pieces. You could make a fairly normal comb and then make a mouth piece with drilled out holes and glue it to the front.
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Nate
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Jaybird
234 posts
Jun 11, 2011
2:19 PM
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Nate
I dealt with Randy in the past. I ordered a comb like the Suzuki Bluesmaster and got a comb with slots. I was very disappointed. He did refund my money however.
Again, anyone know someone who makes combs with holes instead of slots? I'd pay REAL money if I can get just what I want.
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Watch Jaybird play harp!
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Todd Parrott
515 posts
Jun 11, 2011
2:39 PM
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Check with Chris Reynolds... He sometimes offers things that are not advertised on his site.
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chromaticblues
886 posts
Jun 11, 2011
2:40 PM
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I like the comb flush with the end of the reedplates.
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arzajac
536 posts
Jun 11, 2011
3:27 PM
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Tom,
I like the reedplates to protrude a little rather than the comb to protrude. Just like an out-of-the-box MB. In that circumstance, rounded tine are irrelevant.
I find protruding, rounded tines to look nice, but they seem to be a little more work to play. It's not a big deal - I can play either.
While we are on the topic, I would love a custom comb to be a little thicker than the stock MB. That way I could sand it down if I wanted it a different thickness. Maybe I see a custom comb as a material rather than a finished product...
If you are cutting them in bulk, couldn't you do both? Make half of a batch with rounded tines which protrude and half with square tines? The ones with square tines could have slightly larger holes so that their final position (flush or recessed) could be flexible.
Cheers!
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Last Edited by on Jun 11, 2011 3:30 PM
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florida-trader
7 posts
Jun 11, 2011
4:44 PM
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Even though my wood combs are laser cut, the finishing is done by hand. So yes, I can accommodate your personal preference whether that be recessed, flush or protruding. All you have to do is communicate with me. The same is true for the thickness. A stock MB is .23". I just made some for a friend - at his request -that are .25 inches which the stock thickness of the GM or SP20. Interestingly enough, in the process of reverse engineering the MS combs, I found some to be .23 and some to be .25. I checked around a little and I am told that the newer MS combs are .25". When I prep my wood for the laser cutting, I prep some at slightly thicker than .23" and some at slightly thicker that .25", so any of my combs can be made thicker or with a variety of tine/reed plate configurations. All ya gotta do is talk to me.
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REM
76 posts
Jun 11, 2011
5:22 PM
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Personally, I like to have the tines perfectly rounded like they are on the B-Radical combs. I don't like the edges on the sides of the tines. It's easy enough to sand the edges off and just have the edges rounded off, but it takes a lot more work to get the whole ends of the tines perfectly rounded(like the B-Radicals), so it would be great if the custom comb makers could sell them that way (I'm assuming you could just program a cnc mill to round the ends of the tines).
BTW, when I say I like the tines rounded, I don't mean the front edge of the tine. I know some custom comb makers do this, where the front edge of the tine is curved/rounded and protrudes slightly past the reed plates. This still leaves edges on the tines that you can feel as you move around on the harps. Where as the way the tines on B-Radical combs are rounded, there are no edges.
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Rubes
340 posts
Jun 12, 2011
4:10 AM
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Hmmmmm....I've got a mixed bag of combs now that I think are all superior to the ones they originally came with, some exotic wood, and a few dymondwood.
Definitely the rounded tines I find the most comfortable, and I prefer slight protrudence however I don't mind flush either. However I'm not into protruding reed plates at all (no offence Arzajac....:~}.
Would it make sense for the thickness to decrease the 'lower the key??
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florida-trader
8 posts
Jun 12, 2011
5:02 AM
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Thickness is a very interesting subject - and one that apparently fall under the category of "different strokes for different folks". Truly I am not an expert in this matter but I do have the benefit of having received a lot of feedback from customers. The acrylic combs I make are usually between .22 - .23" thick. I say usually because according to the manufacturer, a "quarter inch" sheet of acrylic has a tolerance that ranges from .22" to .247" - not just from sheet to sheet, but within the same sheet of acrylic. I have yet to find a piece of acrylic that is even close to the .247" upper limit of the tolerance. Everything I have been using is about .225 + or - a thousandth of an inch. But I digress..... The point is that the acrylic combs are thinner than the stock GM or SP20 combs which both weigh in at a hefty .25". That said, I have had customers who have reported back to me that their harps sounded "louder and brighter" with the new acrylic combs. But I've also had customers who have told me their harps were not as loud as before. I did not ask them which keys they put the combs on. Didn't think of that. I just figured that there are so many other variables in how a harp sounds that it was more a function of the technique and/or skill of the individual player. I dunno. I might have to conduct a survey and start collecting some data.
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jawbone
442 posts
Jun 12, 2011
7:15 AM
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Just for fun - This would be my perfect harp!!!!
Susuki Bluesmaster cover plate and reedplate (should be retuned to Marine band tuning), wood comb for the sound but laminated to a plastic front mouth piece so as to recess the reed plates.
One day I'm going to try it!!!
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If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!
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MEK
44 posts
Jun 12, 2011
7:28 AM
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Florida-trader, I like flush myself and have drilled out the combs on my Suzuki's. I really didn't like the protruding reed plates on my GM so I filed them down. Now I wish I hadn't after seeing your comb pictures.
Jaybird, I just bought my son a Suzuki Airwave, they have round holes..... only $15
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florida-trader
9 posts
Jun 12, 2011
8:26 AM
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MEK. Here's the thing. With wood, you can be adventurous. Just like arzajac said. "see a comb as a material rather than a finished product..." I don't see why a replacement or "custom" comb has to be a "one size fits all" proposition. For example, let's say you got one of my wood GM combs. Because you have already filed the reed plates down to be flush with the stock comb, odds are the tines would protrude a bit. But you have already proven that you have the mechanical skills to customize your reed plates by filing them down. What makes the comb any different? All you would have to do is reverse the process - i.e. sand the comb down to be flush with the reed plates. I use shellac to seal my wood combs. Shellac is available at any hardware store so you could easily re-seal the ends of the tines after you are finished working on them.
Parenthetically I have to say that I am a little relieved to hear some of the responses to this thread because I have struggled with finding "the perfect design". There really isn't one. It's a matter of personal preference. Perhaps I should include some tips and instructions with my wood combs in case anyone wants to rework them a bit make them "just right" for themselves. What do you think?
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the_happy_honker
64 posts
Jun 12, 2011
1:02 PM
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I go back and forth a bit - sometimes I like the comb to protrude just a hair and sometimes absolutely flush. You can accommodate this wishy-washiness by making the screw holes a bit longer front to back, then the customer can make the adjustment himself.
I do that to the Blues Harps I have - most times there is just enough play so that I can make the comb flush. But on a couple of them I have bored the holes just a half millimeter toward the back and that solves the problem.
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jimbo-G
18 posts
Jun 12, 2011
3:03 PM
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I do the same as happy honker to my BH's I much prefer flush. Does anyone know what harps come ootb with flush combs?
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Jehosaphat
58 posts
Jun 12, 2011
3:57 PM
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I rarely tongue block a whole song but if i do i like the tines to be flush.When i'm lip pursing i prefer a slight protusion.I'm basically happy with either but if i have a choice thats my ideal set up.
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bigd
317 posts
Jun 12, 2011
4:11 PM
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I u-block and use my tongue a lot, e.g. swiping across two or three holes like a window washer, etc so if it protrudes I definitely need flush or I'll be getting stitches!
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bigd
318 posts
Jun 12, 2011
4:13 PM
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I meant to express: if it protrudes I'll need stitches aka "I need combs to be flush"
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chromaticblues
888 posts
Jun 12, 2011
5:08 PM
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@florida-trader
As far as the thickness of combs goes. I think the thinner combs (in the .225 area) are more responsive and a little brighter. So I can see why some people may find them to be louder. Harps at .25 or more tend to have a "bigger" sound that is less bright. I have found the thicker combed harps hard to play at first, but well worth the effort! Once you get use to them I think they just sound better.
For me .26 is perfect. By the time I sand it flat its probably more like .25.
Hope that helps
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Rubes
344 posts
Jun 12, 2011
5:14 PM
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That's it Chromatic, as higher harps tend to be naturally louder/brighter, I assumed a thicker comb would even this out. Conversely a thinner comb might bring up the volume of a lower key????
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florida-trader
10 posts
Jun 12, 2011
8:37 PM
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For those of you keeping score, so far we have:
6 who prefer flush
4 who prefer rounded and slightly protruding
2 who can go either way and
1 who likes the comb to be recessed
and counting....
Great info - thanks
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MP
1700 posts
Jun 12, 2011
8:45 PM
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It was the best of tines, it was the worst of tines,..........
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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chromaticblues
889 posts
Jun 13, 2011
2:28 PM
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MP you should be ashamed!
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chromaticblues
890 posts
Jun 13, 2011
2:35 PM
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@Rubes I think it would be hard to do that because the higher piched harps are harder to bend. Making the combs thicker will add to that. I think though if all your harps were atleast .25 (but more importantly all the same) it will make them all have better tone and for me it seems like making them all one thickness would be easier to get use to.
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MP
1702 posts
Jun 13, 2011
3:10 PM
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...it was the diatonic of wisdom, it was the comb of foolishness..
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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Rubes
348 posts
Jun 13, 2011
5:39 PM
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@ Chrom,You're right, it's just the pedant within me! I'm thinkin the same that .25 is optimal, and if anyone wants a few thou off, just a bit more sanding perhaps.. down to .22 at the least for a lower harp... :~)
.....another good one MP....... :~o
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walterharp
610 posts
Jun 13, 2011
6:04 PM
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can't get too thin on low harps or the blow reeds will swing far enough to hit the reed plate on the other side.
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nacoran
4201 posts
Jun 13, 2011
8:58 PM
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MP, one more pun like that and it's out to the woodshed with you!
Huh, that doesn't sound as threatening as I thought it would. Your reference actually reminded me of one of my favorite comedy skits, a Cider ad.
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Nate
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Last Edited by on Jun 13, 2011 10:12 PM
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MP
1704 posts
Jun 13, 2011
10:30 PM
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sorry nac...can't stop! aaahh!
....it was the harmonica of belief, it was the harmonica of incredulity,....
whew! all better now :}
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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