shadoe42
29 posts
Jun 04, 2011
5:46 AM
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So on the way to my gig this weekend we stopped at an antique mall. I gave a quick run thru and came away with 3 harps for just over 30 bucks. a hohner Zbird with a plastic comb that had a surprisingly loud sound. Paid 5 bucks. Guessing with the plastic comb it is not very old but it was as I said 5 bucks and loud :) also picked up a Chrometta 12 for 20 bucks. Everything works it just needs to be cleaned up and have screws put back on one side. But the slide works clean and all the reeds sound.
The third one is a marine band in G I grabbed for 10 bucks. The bottom cover is currently loose and I am missing three of the rivit/screws to hold it on. But again all the reeds sound clear. It came in a newish box but the harp in the box doesn't match the key on the box so this is not the original box.
I will get some pictures up soon as I can but looking at it. It has the single tab to hold the rivets. 7 nails in the bottom reed plate with no visual production mark. No star on the back cover obviously as the single tab places it to old for that. Oh the things holding the cover plates in place actually look to be tiny screws or rivets that have had the heads scored for easy removel.
Based on info I have found on the web it seems to place somewhere post WWII but pre 1980s.. haha which is a wide range. At the end of the day it doesn;t matter cause with a clean up and a couple rivets I have a marine band for 10 or 15 bucks total so its all good.
Speaking of any advice on how to get these cleaned up properly? And how to remove the rivets to replace them? Until now I have stuck with harps that are held together via screw and not rivets and nails.
Pictures soon as I can. promise :)
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The Musical Blades
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arzajac
529 posts
Jun 04, 2011
11:26 AM
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See this link:
http://www.patmissin.com/ffaq/q38.html
Also, joins Richard Sleigh's mailing list and you will get to download a Marine Band Field Spotter Guide, which addresses this very topic - how to assess a Marine Band you find in an antique shop.
The things holding on the cover plates are nails that have heads which look like screws - these have always been like that. Some pre-war MBs are not "Mouse Eared", but the lack of the Star puts it post-war. Seven nails on the bottom plate makes it a very good harp to restore. Fewer nails would mean an MB made during a period of fairly low standards at Hohner.
Briefly, I would wedge in a paring knife in between the coverplate tabs and the reedplates. Slide the knife in - don't pry. Slide the knife out and the nails will stay raised. Pluck them out with a tool like a pliers or a nail clipper - again, pull them out don't snip.
Do the same for the coverplates. Wedge in the knife and then slide it out without prying. Remove the nails. You can remove the middle nails fist. I use the three nail holes on the bottom reedplate to drill using a drill press. By keeping the other nails in place, everything stays lined up.
I just use the smallest bit (1/16th) and then make the holes bigger later on when required. I use M2 screws, so I can just tap the holes I want to tap using the existing size hole (1/16). I make the holes in the opposite reedplate and the comb one size bigger (3/32) so that the screw can go through. If you mess up the angle, you can make those holes even bigger to shift things around and correct your mistake.
I soak the metal parts in CLR for a few moments. Rinse and then scrub with a toothbrush and a dab of Brasso. The CLR may tains the color of the reedplates, so the Brasso is needed.
Then I throw the metal pieces into an ultrasonic cleaner.
I use a scouring pad to clean in between the tines of the wood comb. If the wood comb is rotten, I replace it, but let's assume that the comb is just dirty. I sand the perimeter of the comb using 400 grit sand paper. Place a rectangular piece of wood on one side of the sandpaper and lean the comb (standing up) against it so that the surface that is getting sanded doesn't tilt and get sanded all crooked. Especially the part that goes into your mouth.
Just sand off the finish so it's not glossy any more.
Apply a layer of water-based polyurethane varnish onto the insides of the tines. They may bend out of shape and scare the hell out of you. Let it dry for a day or two and the tines will come back to shape. Apply a second coat.
You can paint the perimeter of the comb if you like, or leave the color natural. I like painting it black or red. The wood will soak up the paint quickly, so I have had best results by applying three very thin coats one after the other. Let it dry for a day (maybe 12 hours). Then apply three very thin coats of the water-based varnish onto the perimeter, including the tines. Some finish will drip onto the flat side of the comb, but the next step will involve sanding that down anyway.
Let the finish dry for 24 hours.
Flat sand the comb using 400 to 600 grit sandpaper. There are a few tutorials on youtube. Just draw lines across the wood and sand until the lines dissapear. The trick if to hot sand crookedly - you want the surface to be perfectly smooth and perfectly straight.
If this was a brand new harp, I would leave it like that. But since this is an old harp and it probably smells, rub on som ewater-based poly using your fingers (wear vinyl gloves). Immediately polish it into the wood using a microfiber polishing cloth. Repeat a few times. Let it dry overnight and add a few more coats.
Sand the draw reedplate (the side that is in contact with the comb). Put a small strip of paper under the reeds so that they don't go through the reedplate and get sanded down. Use a piece of tape to hold the paper. I roll up the tape so that it's sticky on both sides. I then use that sticky tape to help me push the reedplate back and forth over 400 grit sandpaper. When everything is shiny, I use 600 grit sandpaper to finish. The sanded draw reedplate will make the harp much more airtight.
To sand the blow reedplate, you need to remove the reeds so forget it.
Put in the screws and assemble the reedplates to the comb. Line up the coverplates and see where you need to drill the holes. I only put screws (with a bolt) on either side of the front of the harp. I leave the back holes there with no screw. They don't help and are possibly harmful to the airtightness.
Adjust the reeds and tune them.
Then, enjoy your homemade 1960s Marine Band Deluxe!
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Last Edited by on Jun 04, 2011 11:30 AM
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arzajac
530 posts
Jun 04, 2011
11:27 AM
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I forgot - Plink each reed before you do much work. If one or more reeds are blown, you will want to know before you invest 8 hours over the next two weeks on this harp.
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shadoe42
30 posts
Jun 04, 2011
9:52 PM
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THanks. heh just noticed I can't type :)
I tried to get some pictures with my phone but they are not very clear so it will have to wait till i get off the road Monday afternoon to take some good pics with my good camera at home.
The Pat Missen page was how I have gotten as far as I have with narrowing it down.
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The Musical Blades
Last Edited by on Jun 04, 2011 9:53 PM
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7LimitJI
516 posts
Jun 05, 2011
4:05 AM
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"Dating a marine band and cleaning questions"
I've never dated a harp, But I've been with a few dirty wimmens !! ;O)
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MP
1696 posts
Jun 05, 2011
10:25 AM
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i thought he meant dating soldier/musicians. the whole bloody band!? wash them too!?
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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shadoe42
31 posts
Jun 06, 2011
4:09 PM
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Well they wouldn't really be my type but I could see where the topic might be misleading. harp pics incoming soon..
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The Musical Blades
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shadoe42
32 posts
Jun 06, 2011
4:33 PM
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Okay here we go. Got a few clear ones
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The Musical Blades
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nacoran
4173 posts
Jun 06, 2011
8:26 PM
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The covers look just like a modern MB. The only thing different than the nearest MB I have on hand is the 3 screw/nail holes on the ends (mine only has two).
It looks well used; it definitely needs a bath and some TLC. The big question is are the reeds still good. According to Pat Missin's site I'd guess it's actually pretty new. Near the bottom of his MB page (see Arzajac's link above) he says around 2000, when they switched from the nickel plated covers to stainless the circle around the picture of Matthias Hohner went from being a perfect circle to being more of an oval.
Now, with that much wear and tear on the finish it might well have been someone's go to harp, so if none of the reeds are bad it might play really well. From what I've read, by the aughts quality control was back up, and G is a pretty sounding harp. I'd gently plink the reeds to see if they seem in tune, and if they do, a new comb and a bath can be cheaper than a new harp.
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Nate
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shadoe42
35 posts
Jun 07, 2011
6:45 AM
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yes but doesn't he also say that those lower reed plates should have a date on them? this one doesn't have the dated reed plates. So that would leave it out of the aughts but could place into the 80s range. In the end it doesn't matter much i am just curious more than anything. All the reeds sound fairly strong but I haven't yet checked the tuning.
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The Musical Blades
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MP
1697 posts
Jun 07, 2011
4:37 PM
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everything looks modern except for the large size of hohners portrait and the words marine band are larger too. (these are smaller on modern hohners.) this cover design (the top plate only) was used from the early/mid 30s into the 1950s but.....on the bottom cover there was a star of david w/ the larger writting. so..we have an anomaly. your guess is a good as mine.
but if i were to bet......
i'd say it's from a change over period (circa 1950s) before modern plates.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
Last Edited by on Jun 07, 2011 4:43 PM
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nacoran
4180 posts
Jun 07, 2011
6:33 PM
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MP, yeah, actually, now that you mention it, the bottom of the laurels around M.H.'s portrait come down farther than on mine. I stand corrected. Looking over Pat Missin's page again it looks a lot like the one on the right in the very top picture, with the larger portrait that hangs down, but is kind of oval shaped.
I was just reading an article on Cracked about how words shape our language. It talked about how one isolated group of deaf people had created their own sign language that, at first, didn't have words for left and right. Until the words were introduced into the language native speakers had a difficult time finding an object in a room relative to a known object. Another example was apparently the Aborigines in Australia don't use left and right. Instead they give directions using their equivalents of North, South, East and West. If they where hanging a picture they'd say, 'Move it two inches north' instead of 'Two inches to the right'. This forces them to keep better track in their head of directions, because their language teaches them to think of things in macro directions instead of micro directions. It helps them find their way around the Outback, where someone like me, who mostly thinks left and right, would sit there waiting for a waiter so I can order my blooming onion. There was another section on how different languages use different color names and it effects how well they can, for instance, remember what flash cards they were shown.
As I'm looking at all the little changes on the harp I'm noticing each time someone points out a little difference my brain realizes that that is something I have to look for. It's like learning a whole bunch of new concepts. Before I read oval vs. round for the portrait I wouldn't have even noticed. Then MP pointed out that the portrait size changed.
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Nate
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
696 posts
Jun 07, 2011
7:37 PM
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Keep in mind, when people say "prewar" about Hohner harmonicas, the cutoff date is 1937, two years before the war started.
Your top coverplate is prewar. Note the portrait is big and the laurels are pretty much touching the No. 2. Also the front and back have a prewar shape, just no star. The back coverplate is not. The covers not being crimped is also a postwar thing. From what I saw in the pics, I'd put it between 1937 - 1940. There is however a possibility it could have been made between 1945 and 1949.
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
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"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne
Last Edited by on Jun 07, 2011 7:40 PM
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shadoe42
36 posts
Jun 08, 2011
8:33 AM
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Thanks guys for all the info. I will keep working on getting it cleaned up and playing. In the end it only cost me ten bucks so if nothing else it is a good exercise in restoration.
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The Musical Blades
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MP
1699 posts
Jun 08, 2011
11:03 AM
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-- these are really difficult to date. i'll go w/ elk. i understand that the star of david payne -missing on this harp, appeared as late as the 1950s.--------
MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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