several years ago,eric did a special on his major blues influences,tho he talked about LW he said"he did not seem to have much skill in any area,even the harmonica" I respect opinions but how much skill does a harp player need? in the book blues with a feeling I reread what I heard him say on film-I do not understand how in earth he thought LW did not have much skill on harp
Ouch, maybe Eric needs to try and play a wee bit of harp.. LW seemed very inventive, developed a new technique (tongue trills-tell me if I am wrong), and had perfectly-toned bends. He's pretty damn good in my book, tbh why care what Clapton thinks :P
Groyster1, your opening statement isn't quite a case of "creative editing", but it's better to hear the whole statement in context. I wouldn't expect Clapton, or any other non-harp player to impressed with the intricacies of harp playing...they hear what they expect to hear (just like when I see a keys player I don't feel the need to shout, "oh look, he's hitting the white ones & the black ones!"). When you see, or buy a performance of a player of a particular instrument, you expect it to sound competant, you expect the player to achieve what they set out to do, that's the job at hand. No matter how difficult the music in question is to execute, it shouldn't sound it. Therefore outsiders perceptions may vary greatly on what is a competant player as opposed to a virtuoso. Even within the harmonica community there may not be complete agreement, based on the listener's taste & musical aspirations. So, Clapton's perspective on "skill", just like with many folk, is a datum based on his own perception...not a universal yardstick.
the way clapton phrased it, one could call most all blues players from that era the same - lots of emotion and little technical skill. Claptons generation, and it has continued through today, has put emphasis on very diverse technical skills and a lower one on emotions. Back then it was about honing a small segment of the technical spectrum and pouring all of ones emotions into it. Today it is pretty much the opposite. Look how much technical talk goes on here vs. the emotional/spiritual side of playing. How many players today are famous that are as primative a player as the majority of 50's era blues players? It is all about what turns you on. Totally subjective music and art is and today the majority of people fall in the highly diverse technical skill camp because that is what sells. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Well he obviously thought Jerry was skilled enough to take on tour, record an album & movie soundtrack with..I think it's safe to assume that Jerry didn't do all this for free.
I wouldn't lose sleep over whether Clapton thinks Jerry, LW or any other harp player is particularly skilled, he obviously respects their contributions.
Clapton's in a pretty unnassailable position in the music world, whatever our perceptions & opinions may be, he's not the kind of guy who is looking over his shoulder in fear of being surpassed, nor is he the kind of guy who is going to be blown off stage by anyone (whatever others perceptions might be). He doesn't have anything to prove to anyone, least of all himself. There's a pub not far from me where EC pops in, every now & then, I know of musician's falling over themselves to play in that town in the hope that EC may pop by, be blown away by them & give them a leg up in their careers...ain't gonna happen, at best he might jam a little & have fun with the little fish in the little pond.
I suspect it's more a case of EC trying to express something about LW, mangling his words a bit and coming out with an unfortunate, "crude" turn of phrase. I think the important bits are "he had so much emotion" and "channel everything I feel into this."
waltertore says, I think, the same thing, but more elegantly: "it was about honing a small segment of the technical spectrum and pouring all of ones emotions into it."
xxx
PS let's not get overprotective of the harmonica. OK, we have small instruments but it's what we do with 'em that counts, right?
xxx
EDITED to correct grammar
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2011 6:53 AM
Eric Crapton can bite my ass. I respect him from the early days but I wouldn't open the kitchen window if he was singing out my back! Give me Peter Green. Not that we should have to choose. But Greeny eats him, and every other white picker. Phrasing, tone, touch - genious.
peter green of fleetwood mac days are unforgettable drug use ended all that clapton has survived all his abuse from the past but to say that little walter did not have much skill in playing harp is way off base IMO
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2011 7:06 AM
DirtyDeck - Put EC & PG on the same stage today and you'll have to eat your words. Greenie made some outstanding recordings in the day, Clapton's entering his 6th decade at the top of the tree.
Can't believe I'm defending EC (I never really listened to him until he had Jerry on board)...I'm not what you'd call a fan, but there's no doubting, or undermining his place in the world.
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2011 7:05 AM
That's a fair statement 5f6h, at the peak of his powers though, Green was something else. I won't refer to that cliched BBKing quote(oh damn, i just did lol) but take a listen to some live mac from 1970, fillmore east or whatever, it truly is a treat, makes 'the clap' sound little more than a pretender bycomparison.
I am a Clapton fan by the by, just in the mood for a bitta argument :p
DD: "Green was something else. I won't refer to that cliched BBKing quote(oh damn, i just did lol) but take a listen to some live mac from 1970, fillmore east or whatever, it truly is a treat"
Roger that, there's nothing that Clapton has recorded that hits me like "The Biggest Thing Since Collossus.
To quote Eric Clapton from his biography. Page 362:
While I am talking about heroes and musician who moved me, I would have to put Little Walter near the top of my list. He played harmonica with Muddy Waters in the early days, before going solo, and he was the master of his instrument. He was also one of the most soulful singers I have ever heard........
I don't understand Clapton's comment about LW, as it's been reported here, but I don't see that as a good reason to slam Clapton himself as a guitarist. I put in many, many hours listening to and copying his stuff as a teen and early 20-something, from all periods of his career to that point (which was the late 70s): the early stuff with the Bluesbreakers, all the Cream stuff, Derek and the Dominos (LAYLA and also the live album), and then EC WAS HERE. Anybody who claims that Clapton was all technique and no feeling is in error, and is most likely speaking from lack of familiarity with the full spectrum of his playing. He could be an incredibly emotional player, and, unlike some, could convey that emotion in both understated and over-the-top ways. He knew how to take his time. If you doubt this, pick up a copy of EC WAS HERE. And if you doubt that he could play with full-throated feeling, buy a copy of "Have You Ever Loved a Woman" from LAYLA on iTunes.
Apropos of nothing, here's some Gussow guitar-flash, starting around 2:03. College band reunion, 25 years later.
Adam: I had no idea you could play the guitar. Why don't you put that into your 1 man band setup? I am another big clapton fan. I listened to all his stuff nonstop in my teens/early 20's. When you are as famous as him there will be a zillion quotes, clips, documentaries, articles, etc, with him in them. His life is a one big documentary of one sort or another. If we all were documented as much as him, I bet we would find we contradict ourselves a lot as well. Walter
PS> CLapton lives in Columbus (35 miles from me) and the other day a local in our village told me he was at the sunday night open mic in one of the small bars here. There are regular clapton sightings around here. Be thankful you never got so famous and give the guy a break. He has probably turned more white kids on to blues than all the black bluesmen put together. ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
sorry about that clapton is my favorite guitar player of all time but just trying to determine why he said it adam also says he does not understand his comment -there are countless people in this forum who dont have the skill of LW there are some that approach his level of skill but would happily pay good money to see the players in question on stage
Groyster, Both the quotes that you and stevelegh posted are essentially exactly what I've read. I forget where I read it but the quote was something along the lines of "Little Walter wasn't very technically skilled on the harp, but he's my favortie harmonica player of all time.....etc." or something like that, so the quotes that you and stevelegh posted aren't really contradictory. But I also am confused about his comments about LW's technical abilities.
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2011 12:03 PM
@REM apparently it was the fire that LW put into his playing that impressed EC but I have tried to play some of his music thro tabs and found it to be more difficult than rice miller,another legendary harp player-no one can convince me that little walter did not have incredible skill on harp
I own a copy of "Live from the Fillmore" which is where the Clapton quote comes from. I will quote it directly word for word after I view it again this evening. This particular video was shown briefly on PBS,and was scheduled for DVD and video release,but never made it to the shelves. I can tell you he did state "actually,Little Walters harmonica playing was rather crude".
tmf714, That's right, I couldn't remember the exact words he used. He described his playing as "crude".
Maybe we're just interpretting it incorrectly, but it's hard to think of what else he would have meant when he called his playing crude. I think most people would assume he's refering to LW's technical skills.
God, you'd hafta be stupid to think LW lacked technical ability, and we know EC certainly ain't that! Perhaps he was referring to the attitude in his playing or something like that? I'm not the world's biggest harmonica-head, but I have ears. And I definitely hear technical abilty in LW's playing, nevermind musical genious. Genious too strong a word for LW?
If you ask a jazz or classical player what they think of Blues, they will probably say things like its simple or crude.
My interpretation of what Clapton is saying is along the same lines.
BUT, blues is the perfect medium for expressing emotions as it is so simple.
Little Walter could express his every emotion through the harp and this is what drew Clapton to him.
Also as has been stated above. Its only harp players who appreciate just how difficult an instrument it is to master.
I've played piano,guitar,sax and trumpet. The trumpet is the only one of the above I'd say was as difficult as the harp to learn. ---------- The Pentatonics Myspace Youtube
"Why don't you leave some holes when you play, and maybe some music will fall out".
I just finished tony glovers book about LW-there is some reference to his timing being off maybe thats what clapton was referring to-he was a very agressive player and blew his harp over other vocalist-I dont think that bothered muddy waters because it broke his heart when little walter went on his own-what do you think?
jeez - where am I when the hot topics start? First off - apologies to EC lovers - The music that touches and moves us is personal and can be quite profound. I do not mean to denegrate anyones taste and affections . However now that the water has been 'chummed' and one in our Pantheon (LW) has been assailed - your gonna get my .02 I actually like a lot of his music but --
Clapton has been way way over rated technically and I'm glad to see I'm not the only weirdo who thinks so. No one could blow him off the stage? - um - Jeff Beck, just to pick another British white dude off the top of my head- is in another universe technically. EC couldn't touch him in a cutting contest - and I actually listen to a lot more EC than I do JB. I was at the Last Waltz - Robbie Robertson, bested him mano a mano and he's not even know primarily as a hot guitar player. (though some might argue EC was being defferential) a brief list of way betters - SRV, Albert & BB King, Buddy Guy, Danny Gatton, Roy Buchanan, T Bone Walker, Hendrix, Arlen Roth - and this doesn't touch the Jazz players - even popular jazz ie. George Benson - is in another league.
There are guys I've played with in bars, bands and jams that have more chops - including on my recent NOLA trip - John Lisi.
Remember - I am not commenting on the emotional. I like much of his music but it doesn't touch me in a deep way - as can a single note of some other players. But as I said - that is a personal relationship to music that is perhaps best left unjudged.
A few of Claptons accomplishments- Year Award / Recognition 1983 Presented the Silver Clef Award from Princess Michael of Kent for outstanding contribution to British music.[103]
1985 Presented with BAFTA for Best Original Television Music for Score of Edge of Darkness with Michael Kamen.[104]
1993 "Tears In Heaven" won three Grammy awards for Song of the Year, Record of the Year, and Male Pop Vocal Performance. Clapton also won Album of the Year and Best Rock Vocal Performance for Unplugged and Best Rock Song for "Layla".[105]
1994 Awarded the Order of the British Empire for services to music.[106]
2000 Inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame for the third time, this time as a solo artist. He was earlier inducted as a member of the bands Cream and The Yardbirds.[107]
2004 Promoted to CBE, receiving the award from the Princess Royal at Buckingham Palace as part of the New Year's Honours list.[108][109]
2006 Awarded the Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award (as a member of Cream acts The Yardbirds, John Mayall & the Bluesbreakers, Powerhouse, Cream, Free Creek, The Dirty Mac, Blind Faith, J.J. Cale, The Plastic Ono Band, Delaney, Bonnie & Friends, Derek and the Dominos, The Beatles, Phil Collins, The Rolling Stones, Luciano Pavarotti, The Band, Freddie King, B.B. King AWARDS
Grammy Awards - The GRAMMYs are the only peer-presented award to honor artistic achievement, technical proficiency and overall excellence in the recording industry, without regard to album sales or chart position.
1972 - The Concert For Bangladesh - Album Of The Year
1990 - Bad Love - Best Male Rock Vocal Performance
1992 - Layla - Best Rock Song
1992 - Tears In Heaven - Best Male Pop Vocal Performance
1992 - Tears In Heaven - Record Of The Year
1992 - Tears In Heaven - Song Of The Year/New Song Of The Year
1992 - Unplugged - Album Of The Year
1992 - Unplugged - Best Male Rock Vocal Performance
1994 - From The Cradle - Best Traditional Blues Album
1996 - Change The World - Best Male Rock Vocal Performance
1996 - Change The world - Record Of The Year
1996 - SRV Shuffle - Best Rock Instrumental Performance
1998 - My Father's Eyes - Best Male Pop Vocal Performance
1999 - The Calling - Best Rock Instrumental Performance
2000 - Riding With The King - Best Traditional Blues Album
2001 - Reptile - Best Pop Instrumental Performance
ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME
Eric Clapton was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame for the unprecedented third time when he was honored for his solo career during the Fifteenth Annual Induction Ceremony, held on March 6, 2000 at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel in New York City.
Robbie Robertson (The Hawks, The Band) was his presenter. Previously, Clapton had been inducted as a member of both the Yardbirds and Cream.
TOP 10 SINGLES
Rank Song Title and Year #1 I Shot The Sheriff - 1974 #1 Tears In Heaven - 1992 #1 I Can't Stand It - 1981 #1 Forever Man - 1985 #1 Its In The Way That You Use It - 1987 #1 Pretending - 1989 #1 Bad Love - 1990 #1 Change The World - 1996 #2 My Father's Eyes - 1998 #3 Lay Down Sally - 1978 #4 After Midnight - 1988 #4 No Alibis - 1990 #4 Layla - 1992 #4 Stone Free - 1993 #5 Tearing Us Apart - 1987 #5 I'm Tore Down - 1994 #6 Promices - 1979 #6 I've Got A Rock And Roll Heart - 1983 #6 Help Me Up - 1992 #8 (I) get Lost - 2000 #9 Before You Accuse Me - 1990 #9 Miss You - 1987 #9 Say What You Will - 2005
ALBUMS SOLD
Determining accurate and reliable U.S. sales is difficult. Determining foreign sales is almost impossible, not to mention the huge amount of bootlegging in many countries of the world. Album sales reported here are based on the Recording Industry Association of America's (RIAA) Latest data.
Eric Clapton has sold more than 38.5 Million Albums in the USA. Rank Album Title and Year #1 461 Ocean Boulevard - 1974 #1 From The Cradle - 1995 #1 Me and Mr. Johnson - 2004 #1 Riding With The King - 2000 #1 Sessions for Robert J - 2004 #1 Unplugged - 1992 #1 The Blues - 1999 #2 Just One Night - 1980 #2 Slowhand - 1978 #4 Pilgrim - 1998 #5 Martin Scorsese Presents The Blues: Eric Clapton - 2004 #5 Reptile - 2001 #6 History Of Eric Clapton - 1972 #7 Another ticket - 1981 #8 Backless - 1979
HOW MANY DOES JOHN LISI HAVE?
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2011 6:27 PM
I was talking guitar chops - not hits, albums sold , songwriting, singing, popularity, recognition or any other measure of success or acomplishment - the many of which EC has and you have thoroughly documented (nice job).
EC could not keep up with John Lisi in a cutting contest. Sorry. That and $4 will get John a latte at Starbucks. John will likely not be heard by or touch one half a percent of the people EC has - that doesn't prove EC has monster guitar chops. Music has to do with a lot more than chops - and success / popularity is not the only measure of talent.
I'm certainly not an expert on Little Walter or Clapton for that matter, but I understand what Clapton is saying. I don't think he intended to slight Little Walter in any way, to the contrary. He is saying that Little Walter was a huge influence on him because of the way he played, not because he could do outrageous stuff on the harp. Given the choice, I'd rather be a player that could milk every last drop of emotion out of some good basic stuff than a guy that can blast a million notes a second with no feeling at all. If Eric Clapton ever said that I was a big influence on him....never mind that won't happen!
Watched the interview again - up top - I actually like a lot of the gist of what Clapton's saying - his technical judgement of LW asside. It's actually an exprtession of modesty on his part - and a recognition of the importance of emotional truth and content. "I don't have to have fantastic facillity - - If I channel everything I feel into this" - I think Jim has it right ( though I can't vouch for how right he's got it in bed) ----------
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2011 7:35 PM
@tmf714 thats a pretty impressive list- if you pull up the video of him soloing that showcases what a brilliant blues guitarist he is-I kinda wish I had not posted this video just wanted to know why clapton said LW did not have much skill but then again thought he was the best-claptons success speaks for itself,did not intend for him to get dissed
Last Edited by on Apr 18, 2011 5:41 AM
I've seen Eric Clapton's live shows many times, but the most memorable show was his "Nothing But The Blues" tour featuring Jerry Portnoy on harp. And that's what the Englishman did for 2 1/2 hours--play nothing but stone cold blues with fire and passion. As per Little Walter, I think his comment as far as how much he revered LW in his bio and that he man was a master of his instrument, supercedes anything he may have said before. He took his Layla version of "Key to the Highway" directly from Little Walter's version. That album sent me farther head over tails into the blues music more than any other did. Check out his tribute albums to Robert Johnson and DVD with Doyle Bramhall at his side and you'll see two rocking fellow who dish out their blues from the heart. ---------- Ricky B www.bushdogblues.blogspot.com
I saw Clapton when he was playing with the Yardbirds and with J Mayall and it was with John that he blossomed as a true guitar genius in intensity and feeling and of course technical virtuosity.
Believe me harpers those early gigs at The Marquee in Wardour St London and Klooks Kleek in Kensington were whear John Mayall bought Eric to fruition, bad word, but thats what happened and he did the same with Pete Green.
His finest solo IMHO is 'have you heard' on the Beano bluesbreakers album
He will always be in the front of the English blues explosion in the late 1960's
There's at least a little irony in the fact that this thread turned into a discussion of Eric Clapton's chops after beginning about LW's chops. Apparently, both of 'em have (or HAD) good enough chops. I've always been a fan of LW's "lesser" skills, i.e., his varied attacks, ability to stagger runs, vary his phrasing, etc.
Last Edited by on Apr 18, 2011 7:51 AM
@LittleBubba roger that love little walters lesser skills he is one of the icons of modernbluesharmonica the name of this website wish eric would chime in and make a comment
At the time EC saw LW, LW was clearly going into a very steep decline, a lot of it due to drinking and drugs and he really blew a lot of his ability away during the 60's, but as Charlie Musselwhite had mentioned in an interview, that a few months before he died, Walter was starting to play great harp again.
Too bad Walter didn't keep his head together because with the white blues revival, he could've been even bigger among the white blues audiences than both Muddy and Wolf combined but, unfortunately, LW was in many ways, his own worst enemy, and that's a shame. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I really don't know why people get so worked up about this stuff. I learned to play the harp bas acwards. I played in a working band while learning to play the harmonica. So I had to learn how to play in time and play the chord changes. I like to cal it playing music! Not all harmonica players are familiar with this! The problem is most people learn to play harp from listening to old blues recordings. Listen to "Hate To See You Go". There is some great harp playing, but song structure and timing is terrible. Its not just that song or just him. I think Eric Clapton just singled him out because of his popularity. I've learned to just disect the techniques and riffs and not worry to much the song while listening LW. To me his early stuff is very inspirational. Many Many good lessons in there. I've also learned that no matter who it is. Its best to just try to learn the stuff you like and leave the rest alone. The worst thing a musician can do is be a music critic. Who cares what Eric Clapton said of LW. I also saw a clip once where Eric said that LW's version of "Key to the highway" was the best. A song that Eric himself did! Eric Clapton is far from perfect. You know like most of us. But to put down his musical ablity and recordings. WOW now thats being opinionated!
To Bonedog and others who claim that Clapton is 1) overrated technically; and 2) ONLY technique, without emotion: please take a listen to the following and answer two questions:
1) Which is it? Too much technique or not enough?
2) Who else, apart from Buddy Guy, was playing this sort of thing in 1966? Maybe it's just me, but I happen to think that Eric Clapton and Cream single-handedly created heavy metal out of electric blues, and I think that happened at concerts very much like this one. 1966!
I should note that I far prefer the live Derek and the Dominos recordings: more feeling in them. But I recognize originality when I hear it, and I hear it here. I also hear a musician with a very keen sense of blues tonality.
Now, what's interesting is what came just before this: "Steppin' Out" with John Mayall's Bluesbreakers. Here the Freddie King influence is plain. In some ways, the feeling is a little stronger. But the really cool stuff isn't technical at all. It's the immense variability of hit note-lengths and the precision of his blues pitches. It's more conventional, more "traditional," but some here might argue that it's actually more feelingful. That's because it isn't mixed with the sort of jazz sensibility that Cream brought to the table.
I don't play guitar much anymore, and don't play lead at all. I spent far more time with B. B. King and Freddie King records than I did with the Bluesbreakers. But I try to honor what my ears tell me, and in this video I hear somebody who is struggling mightily to break free from a heavy Freddie King influence--and doing a damned good job of it.
Last Edited by on Apr 21, 2011 7:46 PM
Here's the stuff that I like. It helped to have Duane Allman along for the ride:
The live recording is even better. Clapton was a much better--and yes, emotional--singer than many people give him credit for. Surprisingly, the guitar soloing here doesn't demonstrate much technical virtuosity compared with the Cream stuff. But it has a lot of feeling and a great sense of inner emotional logic in the way of moves forward. He "speaks" through certain notes, which is what the blues training gave him.
Do yourself a favor and listen to the whole thing. Listen to how Clapton takes Freddie King, Cream, AND Duane Allman and wraps them all up into something honest, edgy, and real.
If that's not the Clapton that you're familiar with--well, YouTube is a marvelous resource.
It might be a good idea to drop the silly stuff about Clapton not playing with any emotion.
Last Edited by on Apr 21, 2011 7:58 PM
thanks for posting this-it all started with my not understanding claptons assessment of little walter-I have gotten alot of joy from music in my life and ole slowhand has been a big part of that-blues is my favorite category of music and clapton is brilliant in that respect
