Here's something a little different. The harp player hit me up through YouTube and asked me to take a look. I told him I'd post it here. I also told him that we, ahem, are not always kind people, but that some would be sure to get where he's coming from. Speaking personally, I'm always in favor of experiments like this. And I like the dynamism of the camerawork:
PS: The harp player said he's thinking about coming to Hill Country. I told him to bring it on.
The harp playing was definitely the highlight of that video for me, a non-fan of rap. I would like to hear him in another context, preferably one that doesn't include or merit a Parental Advisory label. He definitely has some command of the instrument.
The Town Car Hoop-D gets an honorable mention. Otherwise, I would have clicked the X within 5 seconds.
BUT, I'm glad to see he included some harp in there.
Who was that hip-hop guy who played the harp? There were some posts a while back, but I forgot his name? He was a Lee Oskar player as I remember. I actually dug some of his music. ---------- Todd
As a fan of rap i can confirm that is some of the worst rapping i've ever heard. The harp player is obviously working on his playing (as evidenced by his contacting adam etc) and he played tastefully and fit the groove, but he needs to find some new collaborators. As an aside it isn't very hard to transfer pretty much straight blues licks to hip hop, just accent on the beat like a rapper does.
I sort of think of rap as an art form that pretends to be music and is (for the most part) dominated by performers who rhyme because they can't sing and sample because they can't play.
i think harp works well with rap (and funk) if put in the right spot(s) and played in a compatible style. this clip is not an example of technically brilliant harp playing, but i thought what he played fit pretty well and enhanced the overall sound of the piece.
Without the harp player, I wouldn't have bothered listening longer than several seconds... and I hung on to wait for the harp player... rap all sounds the same to me without real music involved, and the harp added some music to it... which was a good plus+ !
While I have to admit that I'm not a fan of about 99% rap/hip-hop, I like how the harmonica was used here contextually. It fit in the passages used, and best of all, wasn't overused as a gimmick. It didn't quite hit the mark for me, due to the overall rap sound/presentation, but the concept has some potential. It's something I wouldn't have expected otherwise, (by musical genre or even in that particular piece) and that's why I like the inclusion of the harp in it.
Not a fan of rap. I like the guy at the end though. I- rea-lly- felt- for- him- cantchasee. Ok. I'll stop. I know I have no palate. As for the harp playing- reminded me of Bad News Brown but I'm with Blues13, I'd like to hear him without the other noise.
---------- Be safe, keep the faith, and don't let em tearrrrrr ya down.
It wasn't great rapping, but it wasn't awful either. I thought the harmonica was played well, worked in context and wasn't overused. I thought the backing track sounded like it was scored on a mobile phone and the mix could have been better - BT and harp too prominent. Amateur rappers take note: spend as much time on your backing track as you do on your rhymes.
The skaters made me laugh - did anyone actually land a kickflip?
I'm a blues harp fan and my 14 yr old son is a hip hop fan and I'm afraid neither of us really liked this one.
I dont think this is like Bad News Brown. IMO he was a harp player who rapped not a rapper with a harp. His rapping and backing music was more melodic and soulful than the eminem style of rapping in the vid and in this context the harp felt a bit 'tacked on' to me. (Although I think the harp was played as well as it could be in that style of rapping.)
That said, I applaud the guys for expressing themselves through music and posting their work online. I hope they keep at it!
I am not a huge fan of hip hop, but I didn't think it was bad. It actually held my attention all the way through. It is pretty commonly known that hip hop/rap doesnt translate very well live. It is best listened to from studio recordings. I think with the right production and equipment these guys could have something. I am not saying I would buy it or listen to it, but I bet a lot of people would.
I think hip hop gets a bad rap because almost all the truly musical and talented artists are underground. The joker in the first video has no syncopation and nothing to say. Most are just copy cats. Pete Philly anyone?
OK! This is coming from someone that can play this kind of music. The Rapping was well Rapping! It seemed low scale wantabe thug white boy I'll never be on MTV rapping. The harp playing was (not only his playing,but I can tell buy what he was doing and how he did it) not very good at all! I was better than that after playing for five years. If he told Adam he,s going to HCH 2 to do battle. He's just full of $h!t! Hvyj was right harp does work well in rap and funk. That wasn't how you do it! That was shitty blues harp in the middle of someone rapping! Boris is ten times the player that guy will ever be, His approach to it just left be scrating my head! This is why. Rap and funk both have a bouncy syncopated rythems. You have to forget your playing a harp! Play the rythem. Everyone tries to play along with it with the licks they know. You can't do it that way. You have be the rythem section! All this beatbox harp stuff is on the right track, but I haven't heard ONE person fully get it! I'm not saying there isn't anyone that can't do that well. I think Brandon is pretty good at what he's doing, but I'm talking about being a one man rythem section for a rapper. It can be done, and it really isn't hard. I just naturally play that way. So When I hear this stuff and read all these post saying; Yeah I don't like rap, but the harp was pretty good. Are you kidding me! Really!! @ Boris I think you are a good harp player. Don't take this the wrong way. I'm just sharing how I approach this music. First I would turn the digital OFF! Hipp Hopp is choppy and syncopated. Try to play licks that are repetative and that follow the drums and bass. I never try to play alot of drawn out notes. Everything is quick and snappy with syncopation that ties into the rythem. You have to set the stage for a solo! When you play the rythem part and then solo. Play the solo in a manner which you can go back to that rythem part you were doing and it makes sense. Like I said Boris I think your a very good harp player so please don't take my suggestions the wrong way. Plus what do I know about Flip Flop? I'm a 48 year old white man!
Last Edited by on Mar 04, 2011 7:12 AM
When all you blues fans go to see a local amateur blues band, do you expect to see the circa 1950 Muddy Waters Band or a group of guys giving it their best and having a damn good time doing it?
Comparing these guys to professional and/or award winning, signed artists seems a bit unfair doesn't it?
Hip hop really doesn't bother me that much but it's also another avenue for harmonica to explore to avoid being called a niche instrument whether some of us like it or not. Hiphop seldom uses bands, basically DJ's with CD's and tons of sampling so basing groove entirely on a band goes out the door.
I'd also like to see harp in the Latino equivalent of hiphop called Reggaeton as well, which partly got started when some reggae acts were singing reggae in Spanish using more of the doomba beat.
Many of you may not listen to a wide variety of things and some may even be showing our age in what we're listening to (hey, I'm an old fart at 55), but some are willing to listen as well as enjoy a much wider scope of things than some regardless of age. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Hey Bob, I'm even older than you are, but playing with college music majors in their early 20s makes me think age is a state of mind (until my joints begin to hurt from standing and bopping around on stage for 3 or 4 sets).
Anyway, it can be perfectly effective to fit harp to straight ahead reggae material. And pedal board electronics can sound pretty cool with reggae.
Lest anyone get the wrong idea, i blame my aches and pains on the after effects from college football injuries. So I tell myself that it's not because I'm getting old--it's because of crazy stuff i did when i was young.
@MrVLUN: "It wasn't great rapping, but it wasn't awful either. I thought the harmonica was played well, worked in context and wasn't overused. I thought the backing track sounded like it was scored on a mobile phone and the mix could have been better - BT and harp too prominent. Amateur rappers take note: spend as much time on your backing track as you do on your rhymes."
I agree 100%. The worst part was the mixing. Followed by the rap. If that harp player could get with some MC's with talent, that'd be another thing. I'd also like to say that Bad News Brown was THE man for doing this type of thing right. Too bad he's not around anymore to school these dudes. ---------- == I S A A C ==
Also, G-Love really does know how to play that harp... I saw him live once, and he's way better than other rack players in the popular scene... ---------- == I S A A C ==
I feel slightly bad for saying this and I always try to see the good in something before bashing. I know more about hiphop than I do about harmonica, so I feel I should weigh in on this one.
First of all IMO these MC's are wack. Usually this would be enough of a description for hiphop, but this forum is a place where I feel it is necessary to give constructive criticism so here goes. IMO the vocalists lack interesting flow and lyrics; meaning clever simile, metaphor, wordplay, and/or punch lines. I am also a believer in having "the sound". If an MC's voice doesn't have "the sound" (meaning an original or appealing rap voice), then they are not going to get noticed.
The beat wasn't bad, but didn't have any variation. The harp was only ok and seemed rushed like it could have been perfected for the recording. It also didn't sit well in the mix. It sounded dry and thrown on top.
I think these dudes are young and inexperienced. With my no BS assessment aside, I think this is a valiant effort for beginners. They have a decent demo with a video. Great job on being on the right track. I would be interested to hear how they progress in the future.
Speaking of hiphop.... I would also like to take this opportunity to voice my opinion on "beat box" harmonica, especially for the one man band dudes with loopers.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take as much pride in the sound of your beat box as you would the harmonica playing!!!
Beat box is an art form of its own, and unfortunately the harmonica loop station one man band artist has almost always come up short.
Imagine how you feel every time someone pulls out a harp and plays some huffy puffy Dylan style stuff over a song. Is it harmonica? answer: Yes Is it good harmonica? answer: Not up to a Harp players standards.
I have been part of the NJ/NYC hiphop scene for over 10 years, and I have shared the stage with world renoun beat boxers. I would love to see some of the one man band harp boxers get respect from the beat box world.
Please listen to the sound, technique, and grooves.
I regularly listen to rap, and I can say that this song used way too many overdone tropes and really copied the style of other rappers more than anything else. These guys didn't establish their own flow.
That said, the harp was a nice touch, and was definitely the best part of the song -- it actually had personality, unlike the rap, in this case.
The beat was ok, though it could have used some swells and more bass.
I can't add anything to what has already been discussed other than to say that I hope the harp player or the rappers check this forum out for a real good critique of their track. Also please, please, please, feel encouraged to persevere with what you are doing. Like Adam said, most of us are in favour of experiments like this, and you never know what new discoveries will be made along the way.
Don't take too much notice from some of the old harp dinosaurs on this forum because if you don't sound exactly like Little Walter or the brass content of your reeds aren't pre-war, then you won't stand a chance :)
Good luck with it. ----------
Last Edited by on Mar 03, 2011 1:21 PM
earlounge is right on when it comes to the beatbox thing... I's really really hard to learn how to do. I know that my own attempts are very lame compared to real beatboxing, and I'm trying to get better by taking some video tutorials and by practicing a lot. But it's just as hard as learning how to play harp! I hope to get at least passably good at it in a year or so... ---------- == I S A A C ==
The rapping was pretty bad, for all the constructive criticism reasons already mentioned. The harp seemed to try to fit the music, but it seemed more like a gimmick because the music didn't return the favor and try to fit the harp. This is not Bad News Brown.
More than anything this is a viable way of getting harp on MTV, VH1 and pop radio. Lets face it right now it almost doesn't matter how good you get at playing harp. The opprotunities for playing for real are not very good in the current music scene. If you don't like what I just said think of your top 5 harpers. Now how successful are these people in the music biz? This is how I look at it. It doesn't matter who or how the harp gets on MTV and pop music, but it needs to happen for doors to open for great players that are doing nothing or really next to nothing! If harp gets into mainstream music a little people will take notice. To much bad harp gets heard by people and to many GREAT harpers aren't getting heard! If somebody anybody with some real harp talent got into hip hop or rap I think it would have a trickle down affect and harp in general would benifit. I can't say I'm a big rap fan, but I like the rythem and deep groves. Its though to get into because most rappers aren't singers and don't go thru chord progressions. All you young dudes out there reading this. When you get to the solo go thru your progressions. Rap harp is a hook riff over and over untill you get to the solo. Its easy, but nobody is doing it!
ok first off thank you all very much for all of your comments. a little about me... i live in florida town called umatilla. i have been playing for 5year going on six. this is my first attempt at hip hop harmonica. i have been playing blues for the most part. all of you are correct the rap was real crappy except for the black guys rap and the harp the rest was horrible. thank you adam for posting it!! i will post my playing along to blues soon. YES I WILL BE COMING TO HCH you can count on it!!. however to do battle im not to sure. from the comments that i got i can tell that i have alot to learn and what better way to learn then to hang out with a bunch of old timers that have been playing thier harp longer than ive been alive. i cant wait to be around a bunch of harp players, out here im the best at the harmonica so i dont get any good critisisim. go to youtube and type Juan Huertas Harmonica. you can see 2 videos of me about a year ago playing blues. one of the videos im buskin and a lil nervous about the camara filming me lol. the other i was riding home playing in the car. tell me what you guys think and give me advice..just dont tell me to give up please :| lol again ty all soo much it really means the world to me. o one more question am i good enough to make money yet with this and if so how do i start to go about this?
why do most all rappers go for the same sound and why do most blues harpers go for the same sound,it could be they find it comfortable in working in what is accepted as the normal language of their music.not many step outside the middle ground...there`s for sure a lot more to be said in many different voices.we just have to dig deeper for inspiration.
Hi Toxic, saw your video you got a good sound there. With a little work and by using your big hands you could do well. Glad you stopped by at the forum. ----------
What coleman said can apply to just about everything in music when you sit down and think about because there's tons of clones/wannabes of damned near everything. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
At some point everyone hears something from another artist that convinces them to pick up and instrument or style. It is inevitable that the first thing they do is copy someone else. THAT is the reason they started in the first place. EVERYONE alive that plays the harmonica is doing SOMETHING someone else has done. There are very few that are doing something original on top of all the "basics" or "foundation". Don't hate, you do it too. ----------
welcome toxic! i did not read much of anything here critical of your playing, maybe how it was recorded and the fit relative to other things.. looked at your other stuff, you can play, don't give up! there is a wide range of players here and lots to learn. if you post a vid, you need to have thick skin, but that goes with the territory
walter harp thank you for the comment. true true but hey i was looking forward to the critisism. its on now tho as we speak we are doing another video with alot of what was said in mind. thanks yall!!
@Toxic Tone after reading your post I feel my first post was more negative than I like to be! I apolagize for coming off as a stuffy old man rap hater! That isn't the case at all! It wasn't a personal attack it was more of a reaction to the other posts saying how much they liked it. As you said you've been playing 5 years and your not a rap harper. I assumed you were. My mistake! Anyway I really am interested in this style and am more than willing to teach or give tips to any young harp dude that is interested. Yes its free!
Welcome aboard, Toxic! Looking forward to meeting you at HCH. I'm with the NOLA crew(Crescent City Harmonica Club). Look me up when you get there-we'll jam. I'm an open book with anything I know as well. ---------- Todd
wow thx chromaticblues im all about learning thanks alot for all the feedback i didnt take it as negative it was raw honesty which i lack from alot of people in my life. all of your comments are worth there wieght in gold.let me know on what you would work on if u were me or if u need more videos to get a better feel of how i play
I hope to get a new computer soon! I have been saying that for awhile now. I'm not much of a computer guy, but I gotta start getting into this. It will be as much fun for me as it will for you! Like you said where you live nobody plays harp. Its like that here also! So i'd be glad to help someone that wants to learn! Click on my user name for Email. First thing I can tell you is when someone like ME tells you you can't do it. That means practice twice as much to prove them wrong! You have to have that mentallity. Now we can start!
hey toddlgreene thanks man i should of contacted yall alot sooner. i got one question. about how much money am i gonna need to come to HCH like how does it work?
@Toxic: Welcome to the forum! Aside from the $165, meals last year were in the $7-10 range. Camping this year is $10 a night.
@kudzu: I hope this year you'll have a space on the event pass to write in our forum names, or at least some stickers and a sharpie. I met a few from the forum last year but probably talked to a few others without realizing it. ---------- Ozark Rich __________ ##########
http://www.showcaseyourmusic.com/gwc highlight copy and paste when u get there go to song 148 this is another hip hop harmonica but with out rappers. tell me what you think and what u would do diff if it were you. when u get to the page just scroll down and ull see a link with 188 songs just go to song 148 it says juan harmonica on it thanks yall its about 3mins long plz listen to the whole thning
Last Edited by on Mar 07, 2011 7:54 PM
