I always listen when BBQ Bob posts. I am thankful he is a part of this forum.
The one thing that he has mentioned many times is total relaxation while playing. This has been easy for me at home, sitting at my desk....but very hard for me to do in public, especially going solo at open mics...and if I turn this webcam on , forget it!
I started watching youtube videos of harp players with the mindset of looking for the most relaxed while playing.
Deford Bailey caught my attention. In this video he is like a rock standing there...Zero energy wasted! It seems like the only movement is the air from deep within and this is what moves his dishrag limp embrochure.
No way I could be that still. I can't even play into a mic on a stand..must hold it.
Work in progress for me, but I think this is a great example of relaxing while playing.
I agree with BBQ Bob on most things, but I don't entirely agree with him on this one. Relaxation, unaccompanied by other key things, is NOT necessarily a virtue in the blues. After all, relaxation is what we do in order to prepare for sleep. Relaxation is what characterizes the great soft-rock singers of the 1970s. Gilbert O'Sullivan was relaxed.
On the other hand, Albert Collins was not relaxed: he was electric. Deak Harp, in one of the greatest blues harp performances I've ever seen--in Asbury Park back in the early 1990s--was the opposite of relaxed: he was incredibly energetic, wound up tight, as he raced up and down the aisles of a big concert hall.
Jerry Lee Lewis is not relaxed.
"Relaxed" can be a synonym for "easy-listening music." Nashville in the 70s. CD 101.9 smooth jazz.
Jason Ricci is not relaxed. Sugar Blue is not relaxed. Or at least that's way down the list of things that most people notice about them as performers and praise about their playing.
Relaxation probably needs to be combined with intensity in order to produce good blues. The phrase "take your time" is applicable here. Old blues guys tell young blues wannabe's to take their time as a way of saying, "Don't rush through your story. Keep something in reserve. Set up your cards. THEN throw down. THEN hit me over the head."
That sort of relaxation--the championship poker player or lover who knows how to take it down, make it soft, as a prelude to an explosive finale--is a good sort of relaxation in the blues.
It should be obvious that my aesthetics on this question were formed in large part by playing with Mr. Satan. Relaxation is not the first word that came to most people's minds when they watched him perform. But few would have said that his blues playing suffered for a lack of relaxation. He burned; he played hard. There are several different workable aesthetics in the blues; my favorite blues sax player, Houston Person, was the soul of relaxation-with-intensity. But another of my favorite players, Chuck Hancock from New York, was a ball of energy, all the time. He was like Deak at Asbury Park: a sparkplug giving off sparks.
Of course, excess nervous energy in an inexperienced performer can be destabilizing; it can lose you the groove. So encouraging developing players to experience relaxation-with-intensity is a good thing. It's important to know how to take a deep breath and settle yourself.
Relaxation is certainly a virtue in the blues, if it's understood in proper perspective.
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2011 4:54 AM
I would say the most relaxed is me as I am usually starting to fall asleep about 9:30pm and those gigs that go until 1:30am are killer....totally kidding.
Seriously though, I've always wanted to look as relaxed as Derek Trucks playing guitar, but most audiences find that boring. I think a term like centered is a good way to describe this idea too. Personally, I have to force myself to move on stage. My default is to play like in the video. With harmonica, I find it really hard to play well while running around. Maybe I am just really out of shape.
My take on Bob's advice is that you should keep your body relaxed & open. When you tense up, breaths get shallower, it's not so easy for your diaphragm to support the column of air to feed the harp, it's less easy for notes to resonate.
When I play, I do this, I try not to force air through the harp, or let my chest, throat & mouth tighten up..."relaxing" in this way takes a lot of energy, it takes a lot of effort to play like it's no effort! ;-)
Another 2 cents related to 5F6H, try not playing with your chin tucked into your chest. Posture will help with all the other pieces of being relaxed. ---------- Mike Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas Updated 2/1/11
I see where Adam is coming from....Relaxed Intensity. Jason may be high energy and intense, but he would not be playing 1/32 notes cleanly on a high F harp, utilizing overblows and overdraws, without a relaxed embrochure and breathing from a relaxed diaphram.
SRV would sweat, close his eyes, and play with an intense blues grimace, but I bet his fingers were loose as goose.
Maybe I should have been more specific.I was referring to playing with a relaxed embrochure and wind system.
The more relaxed you are the better you can open your throat, the smoother you can tongue block, the notes come cleaner and quicker, bends and overbends are easier to manage, and the transition between blow and draw is smoother........now if you can do this while jumping off the stage or running up and down the isles..great!
Even high energy rock drummers like Alex Van Halen will tell you they play their best when the joints, muscles, and mind are relaxed. They can do this, yet seem very intense.
Relaxed certainly doesn't mean boring lounge act, soft rockers or looking like you don't give a crap because what I'm talking about is being PHYSICALLY relaxed and 56FH's post is basically explaining exactly what I'm talking about using different words.
I agree with HarNinja about good posture and both of these things are something that if you go to a reputable vocal coach, they will drill into your head constantly because all of those things have an effect on what you're doing.
You most certainly CAN be quite intense, but yet physically relaxed all at the same time and part of it is also learning to be comfortable in your own skin and for some people, that's often a HUGE challenge by itself.
Grimacing doesn't mean you're not physically relaxed and HarpDude61 definitely has that right.
Don't confuse someone who is very energetic with being NOT physically relaxed because many times that is often NOT true at all and there are those who look very relaxed, no cares or worries in the world, but inside themselves, it's something ENTIRELY different, and those are players that often unknowingly become their own worst enemy.
I can't sit still on a bandstand and do move around or move my feet, whatever, but NEVER confuse that with NOT being physically relaxed because those two things are VERY different. When I used to see Cotton in the 70's, he played physically relaxed for sure, BUT he was a REAL showman and did move around and sweat like bloody hell on the bandstand and I still remember seing him do a helluva version of The Creeper turning a somersault while blowing harp and NOT missing a single note. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I sometimes get tense inside while jamming out and WILL leave out that diffucult lick that I played perfect 10 times in a row before I left home.
Last week I just knew I was going to try my Gussow inspired version of the Entertainer, but let the "what if i screw up" demons into my head.
I do pretty good when jamming with a group, but standing there alone at the mic...just you and the harp....that is a little different.
I also have tried a solo vamping thing a couple of times with a tambourine affixed to one shoe, a plate of metal on the other, and a wooden box beneath me.
It has went over well, but I catch myself getting excited, working my feet too hard, and start getting winded.
I struggle with this. For me,it's a tightrope walk to stay physically relaxed and being "pumped up" on stage. If I think about control too much,then I lose that passion in my playing. If I don't give enough attention to my breathing and just let it hang loose, I often blow too hard. I'm getting better at it,but it's still a work in progress.
there are 2 pros in my area and they both said use as little breath force as you possibly can-so with barbqbob thats 3 very reliable opinions and treat them as gospel
"there are 2 pros in my area and they both said use as little breath force as you possibly can-so with barbqbob thats 3 very reliable opinions and treat them as gospel"
James Cotton is my gospel.
How do you rip a good raunchy 3-4 draw with little breath force?
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2011 10:36 AM
My take is do what wants to come out. To control your thoughts, body, makes ones performance a scripted event. I relax, get tense, blow easy, blow hard, run all my breath out, use very little breath, or whatever my soul is telling me to do. Why would I conciously control my playing? That question will never have an answer that will convince my soul to listen to my head (concerned with money, fame, acceptance, etc). I was onstage with albert collins many nights. His body was far from relaxed when he was chopping down on the tele. Freddy King was another explosive player that was far from relaxed when in overdrive. Ones performance should be unique to that moment in time. The downside of the music business is it requires one to be very predictable to be successful. If you you get famous being a Jerry Lee Lewis type, you will have to repeat that to stay successful. Imagine if Eric Clapton started doing just him and his guitar concerts that were all bluegrass music. His audience would leave quick...... IMO the rigid narrow mindedness of the music business kills art and creates predictable products much like mcdonalds makes big macs the same everytime....... Art needs to be a free expression of the moment. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
If you always use "as little breath force as you possibly can," you're always playing as softly as Big Walter plays when he's playing very, very softly, with a papery breathy sound.
I love that sound, but I don't for one minute think that the advice "use as little breath force as you possibly can" is intelligible. Dynamic range is important. Knowing how to take it all the way down and all the way up. And all the way demands a lot of breath force, or at least significantly more breath force than suggested by the claim "use as little breath force as you possibly can." Sometimes you need to beat on the note, flog the note. Albert Collins is Exhibit A for this.
Lots of blues guitarists attack the strings with great force; they literally snap the strings against the frets for the most intense possible attack, and that's a part of their sound. But the best of THOSE also know how to play very softly.
There are no hard and fast rules here. Just stay balanced, learn what relaxation-with-power feels like (as opposed to knowing what only one or the other feels like), burn hot, keep your cool, swing hard, learn how to caress a note.
When the subject is blues, it's probably wise to avoid large generalizations. I've come to think, in fact, that the very ground of the blues is an insistence on gazing at the black-and-white world, the world parsed into Good and Bad by the self-appointed moralizers (or rule-codifiers) and going, "Yeah, BUT!" Blues feelings and blues songs are quite often about two or three opposed things in a constructive tension, and they're also about forcing you to recognize that the truth is more complicated than one might think.
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2011 11:08 AM
There are (were) excellent players who used very light breath force and had a very intense sound/edge (Paul Butterfield comes to mind). There are hard players who also sound great (James Cotton). the downside of playing very hard IMO is your instruments won't last very long. My cousin, Chris O'Leary, is an excellent player and plays very hard. He goes through stock marine bands like candy. Another downside is some harp players play so hard they injure themselves. mike stevens has actually had surgery because of his hard playing style.
@sonvolt yes if people want to tear up their harps its their money but I chose not to do that because as far as Im concerned it is not necessary-to go through marine bands like candy is ridiculous IMO but then again its your money
I think the idea of using as little breath force as possible has to be taken in context. Obviously you can't make some sounds with a minimal amount of air, but I don't think it's intended to be meant that way. I think the concept is really not to use EXCESSIVE breath force. That means, anything more than you need for a given sound. Some sounds take more air than others, that's just the way it is. A loud dymanic requires a lot more air than a quiet one, that's just physics. That said, you don't need 50 pounds of force to lift a 10 pound weight. If you do want to lift that 50 pound weight once in a while, you need 50 pounds of force. Force is really the keyword. You can use a lot of air without using a lot of force, and vice versa. Staying relaxed in your breathing is VERY important, and can really make a huge difference in your playing. Great players are very relaxed when they play, there's no other way to achieve such a high level of playing.
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2011 1:55 PM
I wasn't advocating playing hard. I'm in the "soft" camp. Playing hard would not work for me. I certainly wouldn't advise my cousin Chris to play hard. But, he just got nominated for a BMA for best new artist so its pretty difficult to argue against his style. He just plays how he plays.
Playing relaxed as far as opening your airway and playing from the diaphragm will help tone, and certainly helps the performance.
But you are also an entertainer, not just musician, so if you stand like a stick and are so relaxed that you don't show that you care about what you are expressing, you lose part of the audience. And if you are overly dramatic and "stagey", you may lose a different part of the audience.
As far as hard vs. soft play, it depends... Are you cupping a mic? Are you using a vocal mic? Are you playing acoustically without amplification (like the jams at SPAH)and trying to project at your best volume to be heard, without losing tone? Are you using dynamics, bringing the band and your playing down for subtle quiet playing, and then bringing it, blowing hard to drive your mic/amp to a dramatic ending?
I think sacrificing harps and using them up like candy is wasteful. I think that sometimes we choose to max it out for the music, and if the harp goes, it is for the music and the show.
I am still working on implementing these ideas in performances, and sometimes it is difficult.
An element of relaxation in harmonica playing that has interested me since I first noticed Guy Forsyth doing it is soloing with your eyes open instead of closing them in the classic scrunched-up, squeezing-out-a-tough-loaf "harp face."
Anybody else notice that in the video of late-career LW doing an instrumental in Europe? His eyes are open, he's actively looking around, and I started to wonder if that influenced his phrasing, made him space it out a little more, through engaging with the room a little more mentally. His eyes aren't always open in still photos of him onstage, though.
Most of us tend to close our eyes and traverse a mental map, going into the aforementioned "harp face" mode. I've never thought the "harp face" made a good publicity picture, and sometimes suspect that its ubiquity both in pictures of top players and in the flesh on local stages puts at least some women off the idea of playing harmonica. Who wants to look like that? Notice that Hohner is using a photo of HarpNinja singing, not HarpNinja playing,
I keep forgetting to make a serious attempt at trying to play strictly with my eyes open to find out whether it significantly changes my playing. Anyone else ever experiment with it, or have observations on this issue?
I started out a long time ago closing eyes when soloing. I have played with eyes open now for years, but often defocused, with my mind in the music.
It works fine once you get the knack. Your eyes are open, but not really focusing on anything or anyone.
However, you don't want to be playing away and at the end of the song realize your eyes (defocused!) have been aimed at the rear of a band member who's husband is in the audience! ----------
Great subject...all kidding aside. This very topic is of great importance to me. such as; maintaining good breath control, focusing..whether your eyes are open or not, and being able to find the 'zone' where you are completely and utterly a vehicle. When the Trinity of the Spirit, Mind, and Body, are one with your intention and expression. And the instrument is truly being played. I can also relate to the funny comment, on catching yourself lookin at that biker chicks ass a little too long, or worse..realizing (too late) that your were actually lookin at the bikers crotch for just a little too long...exit stage left!!!
FALSE: If you're relaxed, ALL of you is relaxed / if you're tense, ALL of you is tense.
VALID: you can tense some parts of your body whilst others are relaxed.
2. @kudzuruuner:
/I don't for one minute think that the advice "use as little breath force as you possibly can" is intelligible/
Seems intelligible to me, Prof! What it might lack is a contextualising purpose. Adding to sammyharp's thoughts... Would you be happier with "use as lilttle breath force as you possibly can *to get the sound you want*?"
3. @waltertore:
/Art needs to be a free expression of the moment./
And of the hour, the month, the year, the lifetime that lead up to and pass beyond that moment...
xxx
EDITED for grammar
Last Edited by on Feb 09, 2011 4:48 AM
you can pull off a very engaging performance without swaying like a palm tree,making faces,or getting jaggeresque. if you use these as ruses, they can look v. bad if you are getting long of tooth.
i've always loved james cottons energetic performances but nowadays i'm riveted by his energy just as much while he's sitting down.
muddy had it, and so did many others.
that's the key to me. the kind of energy are you projecting. some cats just walk across the stage to get some water and it's a performance.
it's stage presence. people love stage presence. so do i. you got it or you don't. you can't fake it. they'll find you out right quick.
there is a New Orleans drummer named Junkyard Dog.(forgot who he's played with) totally relaxed and a total show to watch.
----------
MP doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
Last Edited by on Feb 09, 2011 12:20 PM
What? Play with my eyes open?? Then everyone can see me!..lol
I had the comments of this thread heavy on my mind last night at open mic. When my four songs came up I did two blues numbers with the band and told them I'd do the rest alone.
The Entertainer started a hair faster than I like, but rather than slow down, I hung with it. I didn't think about the notes. I thought about relaxing my facial muscles and my chest. If I'm not careful I switch to using my lungs instead of my diaphragm for breathing. I was very pleased and relieved. It made my vamping/chugging thingy seem like a piece of cake..even thru in a few whoops!
I know this is no big deal to a lot of players..and there is no reason NOT to relax. I stuttered heavily as a child and I remember before an oral book report knowing exactly which words I would get hung up on. I relate this to thinking about a part of the song that you "might" screw up on.
What is strange to me is sitting in with a band in front of 200 people never seems to be a problem....Ten people at an open mic or those damn webcams (R2D2's eye) is a different story.
I always appreciate new relaxation tricks and reminders. Thanks to all who post.
"Ahhh....So THAT'S what the shades are for! " Zactly, hey man the lights are bright up there aren't they? If I ever make it to the stage, I'll probably look just like John Belushi in the Blues Brothers. Minus the hat probably. I'm short and chubbie anyway.
---------- It's MUSIC, not just complicated noise.
@ Harpdud61 --- I think some of the things you may be going thru may be more due to stage fright when your by yourself more than anything else, and so that's a next step to do your best to conquor.
Soome of the comments here about the dressing aspect like hats, shades, berets, or that stuff really has very little to do with playing physically relaxed and it's kinda hjijacking the thread. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
@ Harpdud61 --- I think some of the things you may be going thru may be more due to stage fright when your by yourself more than anything else, and so that's a next step to do your best to conquor.
Soome of the comments here about the dressing aspect like hats, shades, berets, or that stuff really has very little to do with playing physically relaxed and it's kinda hjijacking the thread. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Bob, Is playing physically relaxed in reference to,
"Breath Force"
or
"Not using non-necessary muscles while you are playing, such as jerking sideways at the hip, or the famous 'touch your right elbow to your right knee harmonica player move"?
or
"The old blues guy's saying, 'take your time'"?
Last Edited by on Feb 10, 2011 10:16 AM
@htownfess - I think it's a good idea to play with your eyes open. It's part of how we communicate, especially while performing on a stage. I find I am more relaxed when playing with my eyes open.
If you aren't leading the band and your eyes aren't open, you will miss cues from the leader of the band. As you know great bands interact with each other. There is a lot of communication going on. Visual cues are happening all the time.
Watch a super tight band like James Cotton's band. They are watching him constantly and he will cue them what he wants them to do. If their eyes are closed, they miss the cue. The result: half the band going one way and the other half going another. That's not a good thing.
Steve Freund gave me some good advice. He told me to keep my eyes open and pay attention when playing with him. He is a fantastic band leader and knows where he wants the tune to go. There is a lot of direction and communication going on when he's one stage. The music tends to be better when he's leading the band, too.
Personally, after getting in the habit of playing with my eyes open, I've noticed a few things.
First, I can see the audience. I can tell if they are digging it or if I've completely lost them. I can make adjustments. When your eyes are open and can tell if you're reaching someone and making a connection, you can feed off the energy. I think it makes me play better.
Second, I like knowing who is in the audience. It's nice to know who is looking at you and who is paying attention. If there are other musicians in the audience, I want to know if I have their attention. If not, I'm going to do something to get their attention.
Third, the eyes are the window to the soul. You can tell a lot about a performer by looking at their eyes. You can tell whether they are digging it or phoning it in. If a person is going to be watching TV while they are playing, they should probably keep their eyes closed.
Finally, I've shot a lot of pictures of some great harp players. Damn near all of them played with their eyes open. Those that played with their eyes shut, tend to build rapport with the audience in other ways. It makes their job harder.
I don't wear sunglasses or hats because I want to see and I have good hair.
Thanks BBQ Bob I do get a little nervous, but sometimes I'm just so excited to be playing that I get too pumped up.
I agree...my goal is for my mind and body to be as relaxed as they are when I'm playing at home. I do believe you can have an enthusiastic stage presence and still relax and control the parts of you that make your playing its best.
The idea is basically that the mind, body, and the harmonica must ALL work together as ONE and any one thing that's not in sync will cause problems. When Annie Raines was just starting out and learning how to play, she had approached me about giving lessons but that was at the time I had just stopped teaching and I gave her those very words of advice that min, body and harmonica must all work together as one and basically that's what playing physically relaxed is all about.
Whenever I see her, she often tells me those same words and philosophy is what she tells her own harp students and she's never forgotten those words and obviously, it shows.
I absolutely agree that you CAN have the stage presence and still be relaxed and in total control. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I've personally had alot of trouble with the whole injury thing, it was never a problem until I started tongue-blocking. Got some really sore throats, with inflammation of the roof of my mouth, had to stop playing for weeks at a time. I think trying to force those bends when I really didnt have the technique was the problem. I've learned now to relax a bit more, thanks to Bob's advice, and discovered the tonal possibilities there-in. Thanks Bob :)
