Todd Parrott
369 posts
Feb 04, 2011
9:29 PM
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Got an old, pre-MS Meisterklasse in C in the mail today from MP.
Wow! Many thanks to MP for this harp, as it is practically brand new and without a scratch. Pretty hard to find an old Meisterklasse these days in pristine condition like this one.
I really liked the tone of these old harps (especially in higher keys), which I assume is due to the covers more than anything, not to mention that they were very classy looking. While I'm sure Hohner probably has no plans to bring back this harp, I wish they had some (non-MS) harps available with chrome plated reed plates, or silver, or whatever. The color is the main thing - silver or chrome colored reed plates just look better in my opinion.
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groyster1
823 posts
Feb 05, 2011
4:47 AM
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@Todd
I have an old one I bought in about 1988-what is the tuning on them?
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MP
1372 posts
Feb 05, 2011
10:13 AM
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hi todd!
your very welcome and i'm glad it is in the posession of someone who really appreciates it.
see yah, MP
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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Todd Parrott
370 posts
Feb 05, 2011
4:16 PM
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@groyster1
I have a bunch of them that are brand new, and it seems that they are just tuned, or some type of compromised tuning. Sounds like just to me though.
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MP
1374 posts
Feb 05, 2011
4:56 PM
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that harp dates between 89 and 91.
hohner used 19 limit just intonation on most of their harps at that time. 1985 to 1992? BBQBOB would know.
the GMs were equal tuning.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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barbequebob
1529 posts
Feb 07, 2011
8:01 AM
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19LJI was on all their diatonics except for the Golden Melody or the 364S from 1985-1992. The other two models I listed have always been tuned ET. On 19LJI, 5 & 9 draw is tuned 1.5 cents sharp, which makes this version JI more versatile, wheras prior to 1985, they tuned most diatonics to 7LJI, which has 5 & 9 draw 29 cents flat, but if you were to play along with all of the blues harp masters recordings made prior to 1985, you'd be using exactly the harps as they were using.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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MP
1386 posts
Feb 07, 2011
9:38 AM
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thanks bob!
i remember when hohner switched from 7 to 19 i got confused. the harps didn't sound right to me. at the time, i had no idea why. i still cant get into 5 and 9 being sharp.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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Diggsblues
719 posts
Feb 07, 2011
11:05 AM
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I think they got the idea of chrome plating the reed plates from the 2016 plates. The early 2016 were not
chromeplated. The chromeplating makes the slots smaller.
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Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind
How you doin'
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barbequebob
1532 posts
Feb 08, 2011
8:00 AM
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@MP --- I wasn't crazy about it myself when they first put them out in that tuning, but 5 & 9 draw is tuned very slightly sharper than equal, which made them more versatile and most ET players who rail hard against JI are usually railing against 7LJI, which has 5 & 9 draw tuned 29 cents flat.
The original Meisterklasse, which also came in a chromatic (the original chromatic wasn't that great), was the first harmonicas to use aluminum combs (but be careful, because they can have rusting problems) and the reed material that they used wasn't brass or stainless steel, but berrylium copper alloy, which tends to be very very bright sounding and not to everyone's taste (they don't use that on the MS version of the Meisterklasse). That reed material was first used on the Hohner Silver Concerto chromatic, which was designed about at least a decade earlier by the late classical chromatic vrtuoso Tommy Reilly. It has only been used on one other model besides those two, and that was in the first 4-5 years of the Hohner Super 64X, which is the only chromatic that uses a double thick reed plate in the first two octaves. They still make the Silver Concerto using this material and this is a very expensive chromatic you'll only get on special order and that's about roughly a $5000 chromatic.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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groyster1
838 posts
Feb 08, 2011
8:17 AM
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@barbqbob
I thought aluminum does not rust-I have a classic meisterklasse over 20 years old and still looks good as new
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Blowyourbrassoff
20 posts
Feb 08, 2011
9:37 AM
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Aluminum doesn't "rust", but it does corrode, it shows as a white powder on the surface of the metal. Most commonly the result of dissimilar metals being in contact with one another and subjected to moisture, known as galvanic corrosion. Wow that training in the military did come in handy for something. hahaha
Chris
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Todd Parrott
373 posts
Feb 08, 2011
9:47 AM
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Not sure about the rust. Mine are over 20 years old also and I've had no problems with rust so far. It looks like the combs are coated with some type of paint or something???
On a more interesting note...
I have been extremely frustrated by the fact that old Meisterklasse covers are no longer available anywhere. In my opinion, the covers are what shape the tone of the harp more than anything else. I was experimenting last night with an old Meisterklasse in Bb. It appears that Special 20 covers would fit on an old Meisterklasse without having to drill any holes or anything, but the problem is that they hang over a little in the back. I'm sure there is a remedy for this, as Howard Levy and Jason Ricci use Special 20 covers on Marine Band combs, which are the same size as the old Meisterklasse combs.
I also tried a set of Marine Band covers on the Meisterklasse, by simply holding them in place. And guess what? That magic Meisterklasse tone that I like so much disappeared and it sounded just like a Marine Band. So this was just further proof in my book that the covers really do shape the tone.
So... if Hohner is never planning on bringing back the old Meisterklasse, it would be nice if they at least offered another harp in the handmade series with full length covers. Right now, the Golden Melody is the only one. To be able to equip a Crossover or Marine Band with different types of covers would be pretty neat I think. Harmonica players love options. Currently, interchangeability is only a feature with the MS series.
I also LOVE the look of chrome plated or silver reed plates. Aesthetically, they are hard to beat.
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HarpNinja
1088 posts
Feb 08, 2011
10:04 AM
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Todd,
Don't both of those guys have the SP20 covers opened up? If so, that might take away some of the appearance of an overhang (although still noticeable?). Also, they may not be using the stock combs. A lot of replacement MB combs are wider to begin with and would line up better.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 2/1/11
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MP
1388 posts
Feb 08, 2011
10:30 AM
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todds right about the covers. cheapo herring super 20 plates(MB type) are very small and fit the old meisterklasses perfectly. the sound is more to my liking but then it's not a meisterklasse anymore is it?
you don't want to ugly up the harp anyway.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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Todd Parrott
375 posts
Feb 08, 2011
10:46 AM
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Mike,
Howard's were not opened up at SPAH, but I think Jason's are. Not sure about the comb width, but on Howard's harps, they appeared to be standard-sized, black dymondwood MB combs.
I guess you could always put Marine Band or Meisterklasse reed plates on a custom Special 20 comb. That would be one way of solving the cover plate issue.
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HarpNinja
1089 posts
Feb 08, 2011
10:57 AM
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I have no idea if the holes would line up, but I am sure you can get them undrilled. I tried googling to get some pics of SP20 covers on MBs with no real luck. However, of all the "custom" jobs that came up, most of the combs were not flush with the MB plates. Meaning, they are wider than the stock pearwood combs.
Most my dymonwood combs I've seen are larger than the stock version. If Howard had the stock covers and they sat flush with the comb, the comb had to be wider than stock. We're talking mm's in most instances, so hardly noticeable.
Granted, almost all the combs I have like that are from Chris Michalek, but they for 100% would have all needed to be sanded down to be flush with the reedplates. In other words, SP20 covers would probably fit just fine.
I just looked at a Sleigh MB and the comb is flush with the reedplates. The MB covers technically hang over the comb. It is apparent that flush plates/comb was done on purpose.
Another random thought - how did the front of the covers sit on Howard's harps? Did they sit in the reedplate groove or on top of the reedplate edge or were they recessed? This is OT now, sorry, lol.
Finally, it is possible that the plates were bent to fit better. I have never tried this, but it wouldn't be the first time Filisko bent the coverplates in some manner.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 2/1/11
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HarpNinja
1090 posts
Feb 08, 2011
11:02 AM
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http://www.levyland.com/pics/IMG_0420.JPG
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_v7muoqK15aA/TLghcs5a6LI/AAAAAAAAAVk/WPmj5hM4roE/s1600/Vienne+09-05-04+(5).JPG
It would appear that the covers sit in the groove like on a typical MB. It also looks like there might be an overhang.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 2/1/11
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Todd Parrott
376 posts
Feb 08, 2011
11:09 AM
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AHA! The back corner of the cover plate has been trimmed off. That alone will help. I would think opening the covers would help with overhang also.
This isn't really off topic yet, as we're still talking about how to get covers to fit on the Meisterklasse. :)
Thanks for the pics Mike!
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HarpNinja
1091 posts
Feb 08, 2011
11:16 AM
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No problem...I am now thinking of trying to build a MB like that, lol. I think I have all the parts to do one in C...
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 2/1/11
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Diggsblues
720 posts
Feb 08, 2011
11:27 AM
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I remember talking to Carlos in 1989 at Augusta about his Meister class combs. He showed me that they pitted
and he had some of his chrome plated. I think they
copper plate it and then put chrome on top.
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Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind
How you doin'
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HarpNinja
1092 posts
Feb 08, 2011
11:46 AM
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Carlos:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3463/3366210283_e5b168398d_o.jpg&imgrefurl=http://flickr.com/photos/jukkatarvonen/3366210283/&usg=__TCB3zrrFO_Oi18Evx00zoxaJ3yI=&h=1306&w=1959&sz=221&hl=en&start=1&zoom=1&tbnid=8gCIoEvK0R3hdM:&tbnh=100&tbnw=150&ei=XJ1RTaeDFIWdlgfM652ZCQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcarlos%2Bdel%2Bjunco%2Bharmonicas%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DLKu%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1139%26bih%3D538%26tbs%3Disch:1,isz:l%26prmd%3Divns&itbs=1
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://archive.harmonicasessions.com/feb10/Pollard_clip_image047.jpg&imgrefurl=http://archive.harmonicasessions.com/feb10/Pollard.html&usg=__d3nkNn6H-UVcraY__0RMNfms7fQ=&h=336&w=447&sz=25&hl=en&start=37&zoom=1&tbnid=oMC5dPAE0uE6UM:&tbnh=117&tbnw=156&ei=gJ1RTc-EO8XogQfFqLj1CA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcarlos%2Bdel%2Bjunco%2Bharmonicas%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DefZ%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1139%26bih%3D538%26tbas%3D0%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C855&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=59&oei=e51RTZT4D8Wclgf1rLybCQ&esq=3&page=3&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:37&tx=122&ty=65&biw=1139&bih=538
Look like a lot of stock combs...just sharing since his name came up. Any Ricci pics like this out there?
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 2/1/11
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Todd Parrott
377 posts
Feb 08, 2011
12:00 PM
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I guess back in 1989, chrome plating would have been a cool option, but these days you can buy a shiny custom stainless steel or aluminum comb without the hassle of plating.
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chromaticblues
573 posts
Feb 08, 2011
12:19 PM
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@ Todd
There is a harp company in Brazil called "Bendz" They have a model that has covers very similiar to the Old Meisterklasse. They aren't very expensive either. Something to look into anyway.
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Todd Parrott
378 posts
Feb 09, 2011
9:49 AM
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Thanks chromaticblues! I will check 'em out.
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MP
1389 posts
Feb 09, 2011
10:09 AM
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if i remember correctly, early models of two suzuki harps (pro master and valved pro master) were almost identical in design to the pre-MS Meisterklasse.
i think those models have kept up with the times and now copy the MS Meisterklasse design.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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