Hi Guys, I am a Lip Purse style player and have come back to playing harp about a year ago after a pretty long break. I wasn’t aware until recently of the Tongue blocking style and am very impressed with the sound and particularly the percussive slap aspect of the style. I have heard many good examples of TB on the Forum and have been lucky enough to meet a guy called James from the Forum who lives only 20 miles away from me.
Without wishing to embarrass him (He’s Shoulders on the Forum) his TB sound is amazing and he’s even able to play OB’s and OD’s Tongue blocked with ease and he has great tone and sound projection.
I thought to myself, I’d love to be able to do that, but then the reality kicked in and I thought this is going to take some time and I don’t really want to go down that road now of deconstructing my style to learn a new one. (no matter how nice it sounds) I play predominately 2nd position and have tried to hone my skills to bend notes as accurately as I can and TB would be a tough call in this respect and take an awful long time.
So what I have tried to do in this vid is to demonstrate a Lip Pursing style which approximates a TB slap. I started to work on this technique about a month ago and it is very much work in progress but I do think it has possibilities. I am using a Bb Sp20 and work on a few holes down to hole 1 then play a couple of riffs.
Essentially it involves drawing or blowing a number of notes as with TB but instead of slapping the tongue on the harp to block I quickly narrow my embouchure to sound one hole.
This is in no way a challenge to the TB method or a discouragement for those learning to change from LP to TB because TB sounds great (I am just starting to use TB splits and Octaves). It’s just something for me and others who are looking for an alternative.
Anyway see what you think and go easy because I know this area is a sensitive subject:)
Nice work Grey Owl, i can definatly hear some slapping going on there. The riffs definatly sounded fatter.
I think its still worth practicing TBing even if its just for 5-10mins during a practice session. When i found out about TBing about 7 months ago, i got really depressed thinking i was going to have to re learn everthing i had learnt,i really did get down about the whole thing. I was fine TBing octaves because i had learnt them from the beginning from Adams lessons but TBing single holes i just found the whole thing impossible.
Eventually i just started practicing a few simple riffs TB'ed every now and again. Every time i went back to it i found it a bit easier to do. Now i almost TB full time but it is nice to go between the two methods.
I think you might be onto something with your new teqnique though, it sounds like you could have an alternative for the Lip pursers on here:o)
Sounded good to me Grey. I also am embracing the TB and after LP find it difficult to grasp. I don't know whether to have my mouth wide to span four holes and cover three with my tongue or to span three holes and cover two with my tongue. Experiment will eventually tell me but it would be nice to get some pointers from the experienced players here. ----------
Tooka Cover 2 holes with your tongue, play the one on the right side of your tongue. Cover 2 holes play hole either side for some octaves. Others cover 3 holes. Slaps, play 3 holes then slap down on 2 holes,play the one on the right side of your tongue.
I've developed my own variations on this technique, basically doing the equivalent of slaps and lifts all LP'ed. Now, it should be noted that these LP techniques do NOT sound exactly like their equivalent TB technique. The reason is that the single note portion of the slap or lift has a different relationship to the chord in the TB slap/lift technique than it does in the LP techniques. For example, if you are doing this with the 3 draw: TB'ed, the chord you get is the 123 (triad), whereas LP'ed the chord you get is 234 (7th chord without the 1st). If you do it on the 2 draw, the TB technique gets you the 12 double stop (partial chord), where as the LP technique gets you the 123 chord (triad). It just sounds different. Personally, I like the sound of the the LP technique a little bit better because I think that centering the note in the triad or partial 7th sounds a bit more "full". Both techniques sound great, however.
Thanks Ant, I must say I admire your dedication to the TB switchover, it can't have been easy. I also like the way you are perfectly happy to change to LP when it suits. All of us are different and some things that are a doddle for some are damn difficult for others so a pragmatic approach to playing and adapting where necessary is sensible I think.
I am quite happy to embrace some TB techniques but for me I am drawing the line at bending TB as it will take me too long to master and heck I'm getting old!!.
A purist TB has big challenges to TB everything, all 20 blow and draw notes on any harp from low Bb to high G with all available bends including OB/OD's and then to approximate some techniques that seem best suited for LP's but I know that even this can be accomplished.
I'm happy to adapt where necessary to what works for me, but do understand what works for me may not work for others.
@Tooka Thanks. I wish you all the best on the changeover. It's good that there is so much help now to help us with questions of technique.
@ Isaac Thanks for your feedback, interesting stuff and now I have someone to swap notes with:)
You make a good point about the chord grab and I had to analyse what I do. Yes, I do grab 234 and home in on 2, so I tried grabbing 3 off the 123 chord and was able to to it so there may be possibilities here.
My slap & lift approximations are not as full as TB so there is a lot of work to do. There is also that defining almost muted yet strong tone that comes from the TB. I wonder if the cavity that is formed between the cheek and laid aside tongue is the reason. The resonating cavity is larger but the side of the tongue is acting as buffer and muting or rendering the tone less shrill.
Greyowlphotoart and isaacullah .....When I started playing, this is the technique I picked up from the videos by Adam as well. It sounds a little different but it works best for me.
I split tongue block, but like Grey, I am not worrying about bending tongue blocked. Most of the flutters I hear from TBers sound like unbent notes anyway.
I made this video 6 months ago (hope I've improved). It ia all pursing and my tongue touches the harp only once at the very end when I add a split.
I really like the lick at 29 seconds. It is 4 draw bent, releasing into the 345 draw chord. Not sure how TBers would do this, but it has a great sound and tension to it leading to release in whatever you do next.
Good info guys. I'm always ready to learn a new pursing lick.
@harpdude61. Thanks for your feedback, now I have 2 people to share notes with:)
@7LimitJl Thanks a lot. The biggest issue for me is the bend re-learning curve (and coming off these TB bends to do tongue articulation work).
So I just don't know if the work is worth what I'm going to gain. i.e I like the flexibility of having the tongue in the mouth and I do quite a lot of articulation with the tongue (rapid ta,ta,ta's and tongue flapping and tongue rolls on blow and draw) and I can come off these techniques with ease into bends (I should add I don't use the front of my tongue on bends unless I want to articulate a bend for effect).
Then I can use Tongue splits and octaves as needed
It's early days on this LP percussive slap but I'm already beginning to feel more comfortable with it already and I've just got to ramp it up a bit, increase speed and accuracy. I'm always thinking about tone and I realise I'm not going to get that plummy TB tone LP, but my aim is to make my LP tone as rich as possible.
Ultimately it's all about trade off's. But heck it's all good fun so hey-ho!!:)
Greyowlphotoart You can get that great tone pursing...it has been proven....and warbles are perfect for pursers.
I think the biggest advantage of pursing is the way you can milk a single note...growl , vibrato, you can even do a neat three hole warble where the center note is constant, while the two on either side alternate..try it. If you ever get into overbending you will see that the notes become rich and full and are much easier to bend up and use vibrato while pursing. I don't know how you could do the sweet lick that goes from 8 draw to 6 OB while TBing...probably some here that can. In general, to do really cool stuff on the high end of the harp you need to learn some pursing....and the slaps and stuff are pretty much useless when you go into 4th,5th, 6th, and 12 position...although some cool splits are available.
@harpdude. That was great! Yeah, that is exactly the technique that I do as well. One of my favorite things lately has been playing syncopated boogies and vamps using this lip slap technique (shall we use that term? "lip slap"?). If i get some time this weekend, I'll upload an example of my own technique. ---------- == I S A A C ==
