I needed a long time to think about posting this question or thread. I try to find the right words, what is not easy. My english is poor and only basic. Anyway, I give it a try.
I know that it is maybe not easy for all of you to say something real serious about it. But for me it is important. I`m gay and live with my boyfriend many years together. What a shame, he is no blues musician :-)
Why is it important for me ? Because, there are no visible gay blues harmonica players. Not here in germany - trust me! Or here at the forum or anywhere else. I play blues since 20 years and I never, ever met a gay blues harmonica player. I know some guitar player or piano player in the blues business - and they are still not open gay.
I should say: most of you are hetero and love women. Me, too. But in another way. It doesn`t matter if you are white or black, male or female, hetero or gay, democrat or republican - I know that like you know that, too.
Wait! Stop! There is Jason Ricci ! Yes. you are right. and anybody else ? Me and Jason... that´s all ?! I don`t think so.
What is my aim ? My goal ? I really don`t want a discussion about personal feelings or coming outs. Just wanna know if you know someone or ever met someone. Just the same as thinking about female harmonica players. We know Annie Raines, Big Mama Thornton, Christelle Berthon etc. Not so many, that is true. But we know and love them for what they are doing with the harmonica.
I really hope to make my point clear. I just ask and I just wanna know if there are more gays in the blues harmonica community. Nothing more.
You can send me a personal message if you want: mariohemken@gmx.de
Thanks for your time
Greetings from Münster/Germany
Last Edited by on Jan 31, 2011 9:10 AM
I don't know who's who in the world of gay harmonica players. It's easy to sort people by color or gender but when it comes our personal lives, particularly when it can cause people to discriminate against you, sometimes it's a lot harder and people are more secretive. It's probably best if we let people self-identify. I'm sure some of us know names, but unless they are out lets not out them.
It is a shame that there are people who must live their lifes secretly because their are afraid of discrimination. It seems that the blues world and the blues harmonica scene is no exception.
"Be gay, it is okay, but don`t tell it anyone." Is that the right way ?
Sorry, I didn't mean to be offensive. I have nothing against gay people. I really did not know Big Mama was gay. ---------- My YouTube Channel
Last Edited by on Jan 31, 2011 11:33 AM
Mario. No disrespect, but no one cares about another's gender or sexuality here.
I'm pretty sure this thread is against forum rules, but I'll chip in. This forum is about harmonica and nothing more, although I'm sure that those who want to discuss will send you messages.
Oooops. I misunderstood since you listed Big Mama in with Christelle who is openly gay. She's great by the way. I wish all people could find happiness. It's none of my business who they have sex with. I'll but out now. Again, sorry. ---------- My YouTube Channel
More power to you Mario! That very queston has passed though my mind before. Nice to hear someone actually bring it up. It doesn't matter. And if it does, you have the problem. Maybe..early bluesmen were too macho, or something, to 'come out'. Being black (in those days)was most likely hard enough. Not to sound racist or anything. Or they were simply straight. Who knows who is, was, or ever will be. But I wouldn't broadcast it over the air waves...it has much more to do with our sexual preference, than the music. But there are trends in gay people being more creative, and artistic. that's just my two cents/ ;-)
groyster: I understand clear what the forum rules are. I read them before I start my posting.
My question is in this case abolutly against the forum rules ?
But again: I just wanna pointed out that it seems normal to talk about different players and styles and male players and female players. Just let me know why it is not possible to talk about gender ? I mean, the gay-theme is always a black hole in the Blues scene and nobody talks about that.
To make that clear: I wanna talk about life experiences in the blues business. Where elese can I ask about gay blues harper when not here ?
Steve: I`m looking for both sides, positive and negative, but more positive.
"This is 2011. We should be past all this sh!t."
What sh!t are you talking about?? I would never ever past anything when it is in my mind.
I have to say that it seems a big problem to talk about that here in that forum. Everybody says that it is not the point if you are white, gay, black, or whatever. Sure, that is okay. For me, too. Let`s talk about blues. But what about the lyrics ? They are about love, sex, drugs, woman, guns etc......
I wanna talk about blues and gays - you have the right to be silent or to give a constructive statement. No one have to give an answer.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a thread on this subject. Sexuality is a key element of the blues; in fact, some people might say that it is THE key element, and they might cite hundreds of lyrics, from "That Same Thing" by Muddy Waters to "Shake that Thing" and all its variants by Georgia Tom (Dorsey). Candy Kayne is a former porn star and she sings about loving women and loving men. I'm glad Mario had the guts to raise the issue, frankly. It speaks to an important aspect of the contemporary blues scene. It's certainly not OT.
Now, if somebody slurs Mario or other gay blues performers, or intentionally outs a closeted member of this forum, that directly flouts the forum creed and the moderators will deal with that situation accordingly.
Anybody who isn't interested in the topic or doesn't have anything constructive to add should feel free not to contribute to the thread.
It's probably worth noting that a number of the classic women blues singers were bisexual, including Bessie Smith and Ma Rainey, and they sang in barely-concealed ways about lesbian sexuality. Apart from Jason Ricci, the most visible gay blues performer is probably Gaye Adegbalola--as generous and authentic person as you're likely to meet. Billy Preston was gay; Keith Richards talks about this in his recently published autobiography, LIFE. No big deal, right? Except that blues is supposed to be about the facts of life, and when you live in a world that mocks you, beats you up, etc., for being open about who you are, there's obviously a paradox there for blues performers who happen to be gay.
Last Edited by on Jan 31, 2011 12:49 PM
Steve: Yes, there were many gay references in prewar blues. See Paul Oliver's BLUES FELL THIS MORNING. "BD Blues" (for "Bull Dagger"), for example. "Boy in the Boat." Blues singers are conversant with a hundred ways of masking sexuality within colorful metaphors; gay blues performers, or performers who sang about gay themes, simply worked that kind of imagery in a slightly different way. John Lee Williamson sings in "Wonderful Time" about "two old maids, lying in the bed." It's not hard to find lyric evidence. "Wild Women Don't Get the Blues" is sometimes sung by gay female performers, and the word "wild" clearly signifies "gay" when they do.
I got the gist of Mario's post and started writing. Due to the lay of the land on t'interwebz, my posted landed in the same minute, but after Prof Gussow's. Adam and I were on the same train, we just got off using different doors.
Sorry, I just didn't understand Mario's post initially.
Who plays what kind of music is an interesting subject. In college with exception of one guy all of the jazz guys were straight. On the other hand a lot the classical guy players were gay. This include vocalists from both programs.
I didn't realize this 'till one day while sitting in the music building lounge a beautiful woman walked by. I send to friend "wow do I love women". A classical cellist turned to me and said, "Thank God".
---------- Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind How you doin'
Sexual orientation is just sexual orientation, it doesn't make us better musicians or persons because we're gay. Even if I'm as open as straight people regarding my homosexuality, that's NOTHING to do with being a better musician, and shouldn't be mentioned when it comes to appreciate (or not) what I play.
Jason is gay, I'm a lesbian.....So what?
---------- Never try to be as good as someone else, succeed to be the best player you can be!
I agree with Christelle. Size, shape, gender, sexual orientation, religion, race, hair color have nothing to do with the music and whether you should appreciate it.
If someone saw her play and was blown away by a great performance. Why do they need to know she is gay? It shouldn't change anything....
Be the best that you can be whoever and whatever you are and don't feel like you must present it to people out of context.
Nothing wrong with discussing a song that has gay overtones or the roots of the song.
We just don't need a survey about who people are.
To me, what the OP did is no different than someone asking how many God-fearing Southern Baptists are their in the blues....or how many obese people.
I think Melissa Etheridge plays some harp. It's interesting to listen to how she uses pronouns. She manages to write songs that are gender neutral; anyone can sing them and they seem to be talking about either gender. It seems to be a choice she makes. It's actually difficult to write love songs that don't identify gender. I've tried writing some lyrics for female vocalist, and English, as I understand it, is much more gender neutral than many other languages, but it's still difficult.
Sheer statistical probability would suggest there are gay musicians active in the blues scene now - and have been historically. In that case, the questions should be, what is it about the subculture of blues that discourages people from coming out?
I agree a current "who's gay" list is a a little intrusive and pointless, but the wider issue of homosexuality in the blues is definitely an interesting topic and one I know very little about.
I have to say though,it sounds to me like a tangled mess of culture, politics, economics, and religion that is a locked thread in-waiting!
Being a homosexual blues musician is perfectly in line with the tradition. For a time I thought that jason was the only modern bluesman. Gays in modern american society are denied basic civil liberties, abused, and oppressed across our nation. Sound familiar?
"I thought you were going to say you're Democrat!"
Oh no! I don't think I could admit that, that would be way too much. You may not have a choice on if you are born black or white or left/right handed, gay/straight, whatever, but you would have to CHOOSE to be a Democrat. Therefore you have no excuse but your own intellect or lack thereof.
---------- It's MUSIC, not just complicated noise.
Last Edited by on Jan 31, 2011 8:29 PM
well said, Mrverylongusername, Adam, and everyone who chimed in.. Life would be boring if we didn't have all kinds of people. But Marios question was more about whether there are any openly gay harmonica players. I think he just never looked around. There everywhere... but your right...who cares? Unless you're advertising...mario? Then, your thread would be better fitting in the personals section of Craigslist. No offense.
Long John Baldry was open about his orientation when not many were. It was pretty obvious when he came out with an album titled, "Out". He fronted a number of bands, quite often with his name as the marquis...but also formed Bluesology in 1966. His keyboardist was a young Reg Dwight, and one of the guitarists was Elton Dean ( later of Soft Machine ). Dwight later changed his name in honor of his friends: Elton from Dean, and John from LJB. I don't think he played the harmonica, though.
/I just wanna know if there are more gays in the blues harmonica community/
Other than those who are publicly out, I don't know any.
@gene:
/what's it got to do with music?/
Looking at it one way... Very little.
Looking at it another way... As kudzurunner says, sexuality, social context and discrimination have a *lot* to do with the music we make.
Hmmm. Complicated. Brain hurts.
@Cristal Lecter:
/I'm a lesbian.....So what?/
I hear you! I'm straight... So... Nothing! But... Until you liking women is every bit as normal as me liking women, there's something rotten in the world.
@LittleJoeSamson:
/Long John Baldry [...] His keyboardist was a young Reg Dwight, and one of the guitarists was Elton Dean ( later of Soft Machine ). Dwight later changed his name in honor of his friends: Elton from Dean, and John from LJB./
Interesting. Thank you!
EDIT: @DiggsBlues:
/Who plays what kind of music is an interesting subject. In college with exception of one guy all of the jazz guys were straight. On the other hand a lot the classical guy players were gay. This include vocalists from both programs./
Also interesting. Thank you! And also complicated. Brain still hurts.
Hi folks, a new day and I read every single comment on my thread. First of all I`m really glad that this thread get some support form Adam and other members of the forum. It helps me and others! to understand how difficult it is to be open gay in a blues world full of man-woman stories and nothing else.
Some of you say " Who really cares if you are gay or straight ?!" I say: I do care! When you are straight, okay, you talk about women, marriage and children. That is normal life, nobody blinks with the eye. But to say: Hey, I`m gay and I like men - oooooooops. What a mess. Everything changes in a second. You can see it, you can feel it. The Conversation changes rapidly.
Blues music is about realtionships, about love between two persons, about faith, money, tragedy, death, birth, work etc. There are only a very rare examples of blues artist who sing blues songs with a gay content.
Here is a text that I found somewhere:
"Sissy Man Blues" is a very interesting song and has its place in gay music history, with its famous line, "Lord, if you can't bring me no woman, bring me a sissy man."
There were four recorded versions that I know of, and was probably written by Kokomo Arnold, with his rendition being recorded in January of 1935. Versions by Josh White (then recording under the name Pinewood Tom) and George Noble also were released that year. Connie McLean's Rhythm Boys released their version in 1936, interesting enough, also on the label of the original version, Decca.
Kokomo Arnold "I believe, I believe I'll go back home. I believe, I believe I'll go back home. Only to acknowledge to my good gal, mama, lord, and I have done you wrong. Now, I'm gonna ring up China, yeah, man, see if I find my good gal over there. (Ride it, Kokomo, ride it.) I'm gonna ring up China, see can I found my good gal over there. Says the Good Book tella me that I got a good gal in this world somewhere.
Hollerin' the ohurch bells is tonin', yeah, man, on one Sunday mornin'. (Boys, that's old Kokomo.) Hollerin' the ohurch bell is tonin' on one Sunday mornin'. Hollerin' some old dirty deacon come and rung that bell, stole my gal and gone. (Play it, Kokomo.)
Lord, I woke up this mornin' with my pork grlndin' business in my hand. Says I woke up this morning with my pork grlndin' business in my hand. Lord, if you can't send me no woman, please send me some slssy man.
I'm gonna slng these blues, mama, yeah, man, and I'm gonna lay 'em upon your shelf. Now, I'm gonna slng these blues, mama, and I'm gonna lay 'em upon your shelf. Lord, lf you wanna hear these blues again, mama, well you sure gonna sing them yourself. (Now, play It, Mr Koke.)"
Well, I might as well also present Ma Rainey's song "Sissy Blues." As you can see by the lyrics, it's her man who was in bed with a sissy, and the sissy satisfied him more.
"Sissy Blues" I came in last night I'm going home tonight, I won't no more "Hello, Central, it's 'bout to run me wild Can I get that number, or will I have to wait a while?" I dreamed last night I was far from harm Woke up and found my man in a sissy's arms "Hello, Central, it's 'bout to run me wild Can I get that number, or will I have to wait a while?" Some are young, some are old My man says sissy's got good jelly roll My man got a sissy, his name is Miss Kate He shook that thing like jelly on a plate "Hello, Central, it's 'bout to run me wild Can I get that number, or will I have to wait a while?" Now all the people ask me why I'm all alone A sissy shook that thing and took my man from me
BTW: I wanna tell you my personal experiences here in Münster or anywhere else. I never ever had any trouble or problems. I don`t go to unknown people and say: "Hi, I`m Mario and I`m gay." Instead we talk about blues, music or whatever and maybe, one or two hours later we talk about relationships. And THEN I start to tell. I don`t make a big deal of it.
I understand it very well that life in a regular way means man & woman. When you are straight it is much easier to go that way.
Christelle: You are right. To be gay or to be straight says nothing about what kind of human being you are. There is this great prejudice of gays and lesbians that they are more creative than straight people. That is bullshit, anyone knows that, but most people already think so. Maybe the few they are know are in the showbusiness like coloured birds.
By reading all the comments I don´t wanna start a discussion if it is good to be gay or straight or black or white or whatever. I just wanna know if there are more blues artist who live open and when not, why not ?
MrVerylongusername: many thanks for your words., You said exactly what I would like to say all the time. I `m not looking for a gay blues list !!! That is not the point. I just miss this aspect of life in blues music. There is really sparse material outside.
Mojokane: Gay blues musicians are everywhere ?? It is nothing you can see till you know that from the people who talk about their life. But they don´t talk.
Maybe this thread is just a piece of a jigsaw. I don`t wanna provoke anyone, I don´t wanna unmask anyone or talk about that for weeks.
It is just an important thread for me. I say thanks to all of you who leave a constructive comment in blues history and personal thinking.
Take care buddies and don´t forget to use your timeto exercise your harmonica skills :-)
perhaps a good conversation to have - i'm short. couldn't care less who's what or doing what to whom-play some good music with feeling please and i'll listen to it and let's not try and guess who belong's to which team - maybe we're all on the same team. ---------- ~Banned in Boston!
When you've had as many lives as I've had you realize that sexuality can be ambiguous. Neurologically, psychically, hormonally: It may not be that easy to define yourself. The next time you're in NYC though: be aware- you can talk about anything you like with no worries about judgement. I thought of you at Ed's last night..... My best. d ---------- myspacefacebook
You are correct. I spend a lot of time in the city of San Francisco when I'm not home or off on some remote job somewhere. That city doesn't care one way or another. In fact, there is an often cited statistic that 1 in 6 men in the city and county of SF is gay. That said, I've been told by several women that it is a common practice by girls and women of all ages that as they move about the city that they look at each man and play a guessing game for their own entertainment. Once you know that, you find yourself doing it as well. Not for any prejudice or bigotry, but merely as a curious form of an internal game. As a lesbian trapped in a man's body, none of this bothers me at all.
hey! Buz!!? that's my line..'lesbian trapped in a man's body'. Perhap we use this term to rationalize our own core aberration. It seems to fit, for me... But for now, we'll just have to keep em guessing.
as far as sexuality and the blues,robert johnson is a prime example-2 songs traveling riverside blues and stop breaking down blues-in the former he has a great pickup line and in the latter boasts about his ability as a stud
