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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
It all makes sense now
It all makes sense now
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MrVerylongusername
1523 posts
Jan 25, 2011
10:30 AM
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HarpNinja wrote:
"Learning to overblow didn't take me much longer than learning to bend did, so expect that level of frustration, til the eureka moment."
Absolutely! +100 for that sentence alone.
@RT123
I see more posts in forums from newbies struggling with the 2 hole draw and bending notes than I do from beginners struggling to overblow.
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HarpNinja
1032 posts
Jan 25, 2011
10:31 AM
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@RT123
More advanced than what? Warbles? Bends? Who picks up a harmonica to woodshed and finds everything easy? Quiting when something perceived as hard doesn't come easy is not a good habit.
You are correct that you can chose to learn something or not learn something. Your advice that one shouldn't worry about learning a technique if it doesn't come quickly is not good advice.
If you want to learn something than you should work hard to learn it. If you don't care, than don't worry about it. Regarding harmonica specific techniques, you should strive to learn the techniques that will help you reach your goals. If that includes overblowing, than go for it. If not, than don't worry about it.
Saying or otherwise implying that one should quit or ignore something when it appears challenging and is yet desirable is not the road to any sort of success. For harmonica, that is a good way to get everyone to play like Bod Dylan in a hurry. Most people can't tb or bend without a lot of practice...same with learning to improvise or figure out a riff.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 1/11/11
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nacoran
3706 posts
Jan 25, 2011
10:38 AM
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Liberal Arts College! Oh no!
I still can't get more than an occasional overblow. My harps are probably set up wrong. I'm usually too afraid to mess with my good harps much and I'm not likely to get it out of a Piedmont. I didn't think I'd need blow bends, but I figured them out and use them all the time now. If you take the time to learn a new technique all you've lost is some time. If you don't take the time to learn a new technique you've lost a technique.
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Nate
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HarpNinja
1034 posts
Jan 25, 2011
10:46 AM
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Nate,
I think everyone should have to grow up living in the real world and then spend a few years surrounded by spoiled kids with helicopter parents.
That way, you have some street sense, some book sense, and enough work ethic to do more than just complain...That isn't direct towards this thread at all.
It is important to be a thinker and a doer...which I guess is a personal goal of mine.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 1/11/11
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RT123
64 posts
Jan 25, 2011
10:48 AM
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@ HarpNinja
"You are correct that you can chose to learn something or not learn something. Your advice that one shouldn't worry about learning a technique if it doesn't come quickly is not good advice."
Well I dont agree with you. I think time is better spent on the things you need to do. You don't need to overblow, it is a fact. Wouldnt you rate it as the least common technique? You didnt answer that question.
You came into this thread like a pit bull looking for a fight. You are not going to get one from me. I stated my opinion and that is that. I posted it in hopes of getting other opinions. Mine is not right or wrong, it is just my opinion. I was nice earlier when I said dont worry about your reaction and I wasnt offended by your remakrs. It is getting a littl over the top now though. You are convinced you are right and nothing with change that. You are not open to any other ideas or opinions. Do me a favor, start your own thread on why everyone needs to overblow because if they dont that means they suck as a player or they are a quiter. I will continue my thread to talk to others about how they can be a good player without overblowing. If they choose to overblow great, if not great. You my friend are very closed minded and have to be right all the time.
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HarpNinja
1036 posts
Jan 25, 2011
11:19 AM
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No, I am convinced that OB'ing isn't harder than other techniques, which, while relate to your initial post to some extent, is more directed to other comments than your own.
Where I do challenge you and disagree with you is in the notion that one shouldn't worry about learning a technique if it doesn't come quickly/easily and you are interested in using it.
"Well I dont agree with you. I think time is better spent on the things you need to do. You don't need to overblow, it is a fact. Wouldnt you rate it as the least common technique? You didnt answer that question."
What does one need to do? I would love to see a list of what one HAS to ABSOLUTELY do to be a great player. It is totally subjective and you can't accept that, it would appear. For some, the need to overblow (insert any idea here) is real. I would NOT rate it as the least common technique. Off the top of my head, I would guess fewer players play 11th position or whoop or simultaneously sing a note while playing a note.
"You came into this thread like a pit bull looking for a fight. You are not going to get one from me...Do me a favor, start your own thread on why everyone needs to overblow because if they dont that means they suck as a player or they are a quiter."
I never said anyone needs to overblow. I also explicitly state that there are great performances on harmonica that don't involve obs at all. You are putting words in my mouth with the second part of that quote and being hypocritical of the notion that you aren't going to "fight". I never assigned a value to overblowing as a determinate of good/bad playing. I never said if you didn't ob you are a quitter either.
I did say that discouraging people from trying something - anything - because it may not come easily is bad advice. I did also try to debunk the flat out MYTH that overblowing is some super hard magical thing. I think it is totally absurd to think that you can learn harmonica without running into difficulties that require hard work. I find that total notion to be insulting to the hard work of all harmonica players, whether publically considered good or bad. I would bet just about anything that you didn't just pick up a harmonica and start bending it. How is learning ANY technique different?
"I will continue my thread to talk to others about how they can be a good player without overblowing. If they choose to overblow great, if not great. You my friend are very closed minded and have to be right all the time."
But you have made comments degrading toward overblow players multiple times in this thread. I will admit to trying to point out that when you say to each his own, you can't then criticize the opposing view and not expect some disagreement.
You're right, I am totally closed-minded. That's why I only play 1st and 2nd position blues with a bullet mic, tweed amp, and fedora, lol (seriously kidding). I have been closed minded to the fact that you should quit is something isn't easy. You're right.
If you are trying to imply that I am closed minded that one HAS to ob, then you didn't read any of my posts with comprehension. The only two things I have fought in this thread are again, the idea that you should quit because something involves some effort, and that overblowing is something that is really hard to begin with.
If you somehow feel that my calling overblows easy is disrespectful to people who kinda tried them and decided to quit right away, that is not why I shared any of those articles. I shared those articles to provide evidence, and not just opinion, as to the difficulty of overblowing. If it is hard for you, I am sorry. I am sorry if I am making anyone feel like they are inadequte for not being able to pick up a harp and easily overblow, although I think that is a foolish notion.
My intent was to not discourage anyone from at least taking the time to research the technique and experiment with how to do it. I still insist that it really isn't harder than other techniques and doesn't need to involve any more hard work that any other technique whether it be tongue blocking, scales, or whatever.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 1/11/11
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2011 11:21 AM
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RT123
65 posts
Jan 25, 2011
11:29 AM
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And my objective was not to discourage anyone from overblowing. It was to make a positive statement to let players that dont overblow know that it is ok. You have an obvious agenda. Start a new thread to discuss it. I made NO degrading comments to overblowers nevermind "multiple times". I made a point of complimenting Adam and others on their use of it and even said I used their videos to try it myself. Sorry but you are way off base.
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2011 11:36 AM
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Buzadero
714 posts
Jan 25, 2011
11:35 AM
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Dead issue in it's current aroma.
I am reminded of the 21st century philosopher, C Berthon, who once remarked in these very halls, that opinions are like many MBH posters (I am paraphrasing, of course).
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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earlounge
273 posts
Jan 25, 2011
11:53 AM
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@RT123, I like players that use OBs and players that do not. I appreciate that some prefer the sound with out OBs, just like I prefer the sound of a diatonic to the sound of chromatic.
As a newer harp player I have noticed a larger amount of free lesson material on the more "modern" techniques (Adam and Jason) being discussed here. This thread has made me interested to find someone on Youtube who specializes in more "classic" harp lessons. Do you have any suggestions?
I feel limited without using OBs and I would like to learn how to become more comfortable with out them. I am specifically looking for licks or a thought process to playing bluesy melodies in the mid to upper range if the diatonic.
Thanks in advance!
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HarpNinja
1037 posts
Jan 25, 2011
12:07 PM
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"I guess it just seems to me that a lot of players on here are trying to master a skill that is not necissary right now. They might be better off working on playing a diatonic as it was made for."
"Once they master it in 5 to 10 years they can start working on overblows and other fun, challanging this."
"People are making major modifications to their harps to acheive overblows and in a lot of cases it is effecting the sound negatively in other areas."
"I am willing to bet it is the least used technique of all."
I am not even sure where you can I got off base regarding overblowing specifically. While I disagreed with your first post, we made similar comments elsewhere. I would agree, that as a beginner, there are bigger fish to fry, but that wasn't a consistent theme in this thread as it was more towards OBs in general.
I was, and still am, of the opinion that OBs aren't harder than other things, which was more of an issue with comments made by chromaticblues, hence the quoted articles. My apologies as that was drifting off topic and focusing more on the how to than the should/shouldn't.
Let me very clearly reiterate one more time that my only issue with your posts was with the idea that if something isn't easy you should quit. In all walks of life, I can't think of people who were successful and didn't work hard.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 1/11/11
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RT123
66 posts
Jan 25, 2011
12:13 PM
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@earlounge -
One guy I have seen a few helpfull videos by is http://www.youtube.com/user/12gagedan
There is this one young kid who teaches VERY basic riffs. He is kind of entertaining though. http://www.youtube.com/user/PlayHarmonicaEasily
And of course adam has a lot of stuff out there with and without overblows.
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2011 12:15 PM
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RT123
67 posts
Jan 25, 2011
12:19 PM
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@harpninja - we can call it a truce then. no hard feelings. I wasnt suggesting giving up on something hard. I can see why that might turn you off. I was suggesting to not sweat the small things, some people can feel overwhelmed and there are other things they can work on. To you overblowing is not a small thing and thats cool, i respect that. to me it is a small thing because i dont do it and dont feel a need to. That being said, I dont quit what is hard, I do work my ass off on the harp, just not with overblows. Peace!
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nacoran
3710 posts
Jan 25, 2011
12:40 PM
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If I could take years of Liberal Arts college(s) I, for one, am not going to abandon trying to get an overblow!
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Nate
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Mojokane
252 posts
Jan 25, 2011
11:48 PM
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(it was 42 yrs ago, when I was 12....hmmm)
I was horrified, and I couldn't put down the harp fast enough.
I had originally thought, I truly wanted to play like Paul Butterfield, and even Charlie Musselwhite. It was heaven on earth!!
I was listening to my older brother playing them, and I thought to myself, "OMG! this is what I want to learn!!"...I mean, it hit me like a ton of bricks.
The sad part, now...as I look back through my present day 'quitter never wins' eye's...I could of used some encouragement...maybe I could have been quite an unreal player to this day. I'll never know that one.
But nope!...it was so intimidating...I backed off..put it down fast, and didn't pick it up til 30 yrs later.
my point here..
....for a kid to quit something because it was the most intimidating thing they had ever known. That's excusable. Not so for adults...
What does a kid know about learning?
As a seasoned player now, I also realize learning to OB to be similarly intimidating. Though, without the quitting factor.
My strategy now is simply to pace myself, and eventually I will get it. Don't give up.
I have the experience to know that just about anything is possible, with enough effort and perseverance.
Recently....I heard an over blow used in a place where I actually thought it was a good (wow)fit.
Up until then, I've had the 'so what!,...Paul Butterfield never needed it' attitude.
When I heard it being used, it made a little more sense to me, to feel the need, to add it to my bag. I'm not rushing out and annoying my neighbors just yet. Though, I will make it part of my practice routine.
Actually having heard it used in a way that I like, makes all the difference. Now I want to learn how, and I have the time to put the work in)
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2011 11:50 PM
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