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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Ear training, practice time, and improvision
Ear training, practice time, and improvision
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ItsTater
2 posts
Jan 25, 2011
12:34 AM
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I posted in the welcome thread and am anxious to start a thread of my own. As stated I am fairly new to harp playing (4-6 months, a bit longer perhaps) and have been listening non-stop to blues harmonica during this period with no signs of stopping.
Bit of a background, grew up in CA and moved to midwest (OK) round 3 years ago. Always have prided myself ffor having a distinct ear for good music and tried playing a few in my 25 years existance (trumpet, bass, acoustic) but always gave up when I felt I wasn't making progress. I'm bound and determined to not let this "measely tin box" beat me this time and now know this is the instrument that's been calling my name since I was a child.
I never "understood" blues, bluegrass, roots (aside from knowing it was a kickin tune) until by fate would have it I attended bluegrass in 2009 where I was introduced to the gritty and raw talents of some of the best musicians that I have encountered thus far. Prone to parkin lot picks and all night jams, I wandered the musicial fields wanting to join in but fairly intimidated by the prowess discovered there (also having no instrument in hand and being totally unprepared not knowing what to expect) I came home from that festival with a new outlook on music, genres, and just human existance in general. Now to choose an instrument that would allow me to express myself in ways I never imagined and get good enough to hold my ground with some of my fellow human beings.
I started downloading bluegrass music, ignorant to the fact that it conatined the word blues right in the title hahah, and came across Old Crow Medicine Show. When I heard the harp in CC Rider Kgreat rendition of the song) I knew what I was to do. I have since purchased 3 good quality harps (C, A, G), been listening to nothing but blues and bluegrass (some irish folk thorwn in) and practicing clear consise single notes, bends, campy jingles and familiar melodies, longtones, shakes (called warbles by Adam I believe), the major scales and my thirds, and trying to play by ear (most of the time in vain)
Sorry so long but all that to get to this; I'm in a very frustrated period right now, to the point that I haven't picked it up in a couple days. I know what I want to play, can sometimes even get the right key with my limited selection, but can't seem to make it come out on in my playing. I can bend the 1, 2, 4 and sustain sometimes, even starting on the bend, yet when it comes to imitating licks or even trying to improvise over a jam track, I go blank or give up in frustration to the point of wanting to throw the gosh darn thing against the wall (which I would never do btw).
How did you guys practice when first starting? What licks would you come back to? What is your practice time consist of now? How many minutes would you spend on each technique (ie bends 5 min, waarbles 5 mins) ? Do you have a regimen that you follow daily? Any good exercises that you can give me to improve tone or hole jumping (1b-3 1/2b or 2wb-4b)? what about ear training? Improvision? I'm sorry if I'm being vague here and I'm jumping from topic to topic, but I'm stuck in this rut and don't have a lot of people to turn to. I think I'm just overwhelemed by the wealth of info that I'm looking to keep it simple but also blow that damn thing! My goal is using this tin box as a self expression and also spontaneously jump into a 12 bar progression without hestitation and reserve.
Probably not the best first post so long and all, and not so.ething you want to waste your time on when you have amp selection and custom harps to talk about, but thank all y'all in advance for helping this poor boy in anyway you can.
Cheers folks.
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Greystonesman
40 posts
Jan 25, 2011
1:48 AM
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Hi, I consider myself an advanced beginner. I find that my progress started to move faster when I practised draw bends, and "hole hopping" in the context of songs rather than playing riffs.
The improvisation thing is something I'm searching for too.
I would recommend that you consider buying Adams "Beginners" and/or "Advanced Beginners Course". My playing has moved on a lot over the last 3 weeks.
The hunger or need to learn will sometimes seem to move quicker than ones ability to learn, and can sometimes lead to frustration, but stick with it.
I'm telling myself that the improvisation "skill" is something that will become easier to grasp once I've
got all the "softwear", as Adam calls it, imbedded in my tiny brain.
The amounts of practice time we all need or can commit too, will be different. I practice half hour a day or so, sometimes I'll go a little longer. It's no bad thing to put your harp down too if you think you are "banging against a wall".
Hey, I'm twice your age, so if I can offer a little advice, it would be to take it slow, and just enjoy it.
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For sure, an old dog can learn new tricks
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Icemaster
13 posts
Jan 25, 2011
2:57 AM
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Adam's lessons would be a great idea. I would also recommend, if you have the means, finding a private teacher. MBH has a whole list of teachers and you may find one in your area and if not you can always get online lessons which is what I do. I can understand the frustration. You hear it but you can't make it come out of your harp. This is where a teacher will help. They know how well you should be playing based on experience. They don't expect perfection out of someone who is new to the harp. I myself have said, why aren't I better and my teacher was quick to tell me that my progress is more than satisfactory. Harp is hard and music is a lifetime endeavor. So just take you're time and you'll get there. At least that's what I tell myself. Just my two cents. Good luck.
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"A harmonica is not just a souped up kazoo?" -Mo Rocca
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Micha
152 posts
Jan 25, 2011
4:33 AM
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I started playing with Adam's lessons. He's got enough really fun lessons to do to keep you busy for a while. And if you get to the end of them, you'll have a whole bag of tricks with which you can 'pseudo'-improvise. (That's what I mean by just playing licks you already know, as opposed to playing straight out of your head)
Plus, you'll be able to do 90% of the techniques that you need to learn to improvise. Because even if you know which note it is that you hear in your head, you still have to be able to play it.
Most of all, it's gonna be fun to do and that's what it's all about. And if you're having fun, you'll practice more...
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kudzurunner
2284 posts
Jan 25, 2011
4:45 AM
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You're gonna get a lot of great advice here. I'll suggest that you also investigate Jon Gindick's materials--he's particularly good with people in the raw beginner category who are looking for licks, as you are--and David Barrett, whose book, IMPROVISING BLUES HARMONICA, clearly lays out the basic principles and gives you some licks and solos to work with.
--Adam
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colman
10 posts
Jan 25, 2011
5:11 AM
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from my perspective,blues is a singing music.all the instruments played in blues are singing when getting down.so with all the other stuff you do to learn,try
simple licks ,like hoochie coochie man 2beat lick.play it till you can sing it, learn like a child learns a language.walk before you run.as you learn new licks [words] you`ll be able to talk,than singing
on that harp will come.
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Baker
99 posts
Jan 25, 2011
5:23 AM
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I understand your frustration. I think everyone has probably been there at some point. As far as improvisation goes, this is what worked for me:
There are some fundamental things you should learn. As far as blues goes at least, you will need to know the blues scale. I believe Adam covers it in one of his lessons. This will give you a set of "safe" notes to play over any i,iv,v progression. (Please note that these are not the only notes you could be using but it is a good stating point). It will also give you a framework when trying to work out licks by ear.
Study the 12bar i,iv,v progression. Get this stuck in your head, to the point where you don't even need to be playing in order to know where you are. Listen to songs which use this progression, count, see if you can mark the changes. This progression is something that most people already know. It is used in so many songs from blues, to rock to pop that most people, muscians or otherwise can feel when the changes are. Trust your instincts.
I would also recommend working with Adams paid for lessons which are available here on the site. This will not only give you a bank of riffs and licks to use, it will help you get used to certain breathing patterns and give you some understanding of how different notes work against the different chords of the progression.
Keep listening to as much stuff as you can. Harp players, singers, piano player guitar players, horn players... see what they're all doing.
Practice this all in context. Get yourself some jam tracks, there are plenty out there available for download. Just play along, see what works, see what doesn't. This will help train your ear, and improve your "feeling" for what you are playing.
As I said this is what worked for me. I hope it is some help. And remember, this stuff does not come quickly.
It should be fun.
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arzajac
445 posts
Jan 25, 2011
5:48 AM
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"yet when it comes to imitating licks or even trying to improvise over a jam track, I go blank or give up in frustration "
Listen to lots of music.
If you want to work on licks, you may be able to copy 50 to 90 per cent of the licks of one song in one day, but you probably will have more success right now at getting 1 per cent of the licks from 100 songs. Even just listening to the changes in different songs will exercise your brain.
For example, after listening to Bobby Troup and Count Basie, I hear more things now when I listen to Paul Butterfield. (Does that even make sense?)
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nacoran
3703 posts
Jan 25, 2011
10:06 AM
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Get the Amazing Slow Downer to slow down licks so you can take your time learning them. Bendometer is good for learning scales.
I have a history of instruments lying in the wrecking pile too. When I picked up the harmonica I decided I was going to change how I mentally attacked the problem. I swore to myself that I was just going to make noise for a while. For several weeks I deliberately didn't try to play anything recognizable. I jumped all over the harp, just trying to hit the note I was thinking of but not worrying if I didn't. Eventually I started hitting the note I was thinking of more regularly and I'd start to hear intervals that I recognized as being part of a song. Then I started learning songs and learning my own riffs. I didn't share what I was doing with anyone at first because I didn't want any pressure to get good on a certain schedule. Make sure you switch between harps regularly so you learn intervals instead of just notes.
Pretty soon I was sitting there and I could figure out any nursery rhyme melody on pretty much the first take. Take some time off to learn to whistle or hum a song before you take it on with the harp. When you are learning a song there are two steps... internalizing the part you are playing and figuring out where it goes on the harmonica. If you can break that down into two steps each step will be easier. Playing to the whistling in your head will be easier than playing along with a song. Get a list of songs in a couple keys and practice both first and second position (at least) over it.
When you get frustrated, thinking of a little kid making noise with a toy instrument. Think about how much fun they have. Be the kid.
I once had a puzzle game. It had these flat wooden triangles that you had to arrange to form different pictures. I played it and played it and really enjoyed myself. Then one day my brother came over and was solving the puzzles in 5 minutes. It had been taking me the better part of an hour. (I've got a learning disability). I was crushed. I never played again, but really, what, other than my expectations, had changed?
When you first start playing harmonica you'll hear all these brilliant players. You don't see the years they've spent practicing to get there, so you get frustrated when you can't do what they can. Play, at first, with no expectations for how good you will get, just for how much time you will put in. Then play the best damn version of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. Then learn to play harmonica like Bob Dylan. Then pick someone who actually plays well. Slowly you can raise your expectations to being just a bit better than you are on any given day.
At least that's been my approach. Some people take an opposite approach. They may get farther faster, or they may quit. I haven't quit and I can separate being happy with my playing (as in I can enjoy being in the moment) and being happy with my playing (I still want to get better.)
Your mileage may very.
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Nate
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Andy Ley
68 posts
Jan 25, 2011
1:35 PM
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+1 for Kudzurunners recommendation of David Barett's 'Improvisinf Blues Harmonica'. The first chapter of this book alone was worth the price of admission.
You may need a small smattering of music theory to get the best from it however (and I mean small, I've never had musical training, I've picked things up as I've gone along) so some kind of music theory introduction book may help if your not up to speed on things like scales, the use of roman numerals (I, IV, V etc.) to represent notes and scales etc. etc.
Oh, and start posting recordings or videos of yourself up as soon as you're comfortable. You'll be nervous as hell before you do it but the guys here are dead friendly and will point you in the right direction. They are a wealth of knowledge that you would be a fool not to tap into!
Edit: How remiss of me . . . Welcome to the forum :)
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2011 1:36 PM
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