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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Is audience response a responsibility?
Is audience response a responsibility?
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Bamaharp
5 posts
Jan 24, 2011
8:26 PM
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I can finish a gig feeling heroic, energized, ready to go find another club where I can sit-in because I don't want this feeling to end, or I can pack my stuff feeling frustrated, drained, and questioning the relevance of my music - all based on what the crowd gives back on a given night. I enjoy the music and I'm confident in my own ability, so a somewhat reserved crowd won't ruin my night, but occasionally I find myself playing for a crowd that just steadfastly refuses to give anything back. This can really throw you sometimes, when an inspired performance that tore the house down the night before illicits no response whatsoever on this night. It makes me realize that an audience is not fifty or a hundred or a thousand individuals, but one living, breathing organism - sometimes warm and wonderful, sometimes cold and indifferent.
Personally, I've seen many live performances that I considered mediocre or just weren't my thing, but if the artists were sincere then I've always felt compelled to clap or respond in some way.
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jbone
480 posts
Jan 24, 2011
9:53 PM
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responsibility? whose? yours? mine? the audience's?
as a musician i give support to my peers where it's appropriate. i get support from my peers as well.
audiences these days are more fickle i think, partly thanks to all the choices they have for free music at the touch of a finger. there was a time when a guy playing live music drew a crowd. it just does not seem to be the case like it once was these days.
the music i have done in recent years is maybe not attractive to a lot of people sometimes. we do a lot of material from up to 100 years ago in our duo, and we even write in an older style than some folks do. but most times out we reach at least a few members in an audience. we are definitely not everyone's cup of tea. we don't expect to be.
our last gig, about a month ago, we set up and kicked off to maybe 20 people. the crowd changed but didn't get much bigger. of those 20 people nearly everyone dug what we were layi9ng down all night. very gratifying!
we've certainly had nights where next to nobody even showed up at a joint, but usually even in a very small crowd, our sincerity coupled with inspired chops will draw at least one or two folks to actually come by and compliment us. and sometimes if you reach just a couple of folks, they kind of spread the vibe around, it's contagious.
one hazard i have learned to deal with is, no matter how tired or bored or insulated the crowd is, i always go out and do my best. to succumb to an audience's lack of enthusiasm is a death knell to me. it helps a lot to have a partner i'm very close to (wife), who shares my joy at just getting to play. playing out is always a bonus, in fact we can always play at home but getting on a stage and just having the chance to maybe turn some heads and fill some ears with our brand of blues and roots is a plus.
if you do what you do with conviction, someone will respond to it. i quit making a habit of watching the crowd for reactions a long time ago. if i do well enough they will show me. elsewhere lies madness.
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RyanMortos
994 posts
Jan 24, 2011
10:01 PM
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I think this is (at least partially) a product of environment.
If you're the main act of a show people pay top dollar for or even a cover charge at a bar you'll more likely get positive response then a no-cover charge gig in which people are there for other reasons & you're the background music.
Take for example, the late Buddha. At a local club filmed by Issac people payed the very good music little or no mind. IMO, I thought it was so good I was hoping they'd tour together. At SPAH people hooted & hollared & responded positively to his performance. Was the later really multiple times a better performance? I don't think so, just a different environment with people there for different purposes.
Obviously the audience isn't required to pay the music any mind either way. But I think people who are regular show attendees will know that a band's performance can be raised a notch by positive audience response. Alternatively, Ive seen high level acts leave a gig early due to non positive response. Ive seen bands boo'ed off stage too, lol.
Heck, I know when I played at a local jam when I did something that made the audience yell, 'yeah!', my playing the rest of the song turned out better then if that did not happen.
I guess the problem comes in when you don't get that 'yeah!' perhaps envision the audience response to the previous night's gig & hopefully the current people take notice. If not it doesn't really matter I bet at least one guy in the bunch got a kick out of it!
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~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Contact:
My youtube account
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Bamaharp
7 posts
Jan 24, 2011
10:46 PM
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I disagree with some of these comments that the audience has no responsibility - I think they do. As I said before, I'm fine with a reserved crowd, but at some point showing absolutely no appreciation for a heartfelt performance can become rude. As a listener, I simply cannot bear to let this happen to a musician, and whether I like their music or not I cannot resist showing some appreciation of their effort.
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PaulM
93 posts
Jan 25, 2011
3:44 AM
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I've noticed, both playing and watching, that there tends to be a small core of folks who really get into the music, while the remainder of the folks present are talking football or trying to score themselves. Since the bar owner is trying to make a living, I'm always stoked when there's good crowd and he "gives me a smile". It certainly is inspiring to play to an active, involved audience, but the band knows when it has nailed a set and that inspires me to keep playing out.
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waltertore
967 posts
Jan 25, 2011
3:47 AM
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I have deduced over the years- pick your venues very carefully if you want to have a positive interaction with the audience. This has always been true. There were always restraunt gigs where you hid in a corner and nobody knew you were there but what I see happening is the small to mid size local draw venues that were dedicated music spots that drew people that wanted to interact, are dying real fast and the non listening rooms- restraunts, coffee houses, art galleries, are on the rise. These also pay little to nothing and the main attraction to the place is not your music. Free jams or pay to play jams are really taking over. Baby boomers with fat wallets, often inherited from their parents, are reliving much of their youth that they missed out on. That is cool but unfortunately is adding to the problem for pros to keep playing and earning. That essential mid level club scene that most of us played that never broke into the big time blues level were jems. They held 100-200 people, had a dedicated stage, dance floor, and no tv going, no food served at the table. It was strickly drinking, dancing, listening. Because of the scenario today I have gone from over 200 gigs a year to just a few last year. The distances required to travel between these places now is too far for a guy with a day job and money you will make will force you to have a day job. Plus the guys like Rick Estrin and such are now forced to play these places more and more. Bottom line today- glut of talent, few interactive venues to host it, pay to play jams taking over weekend nights, play for free becoming the norm, and audiences actually are forgeting how to interact. In time, like the hyroglyphics, it will become extinct if things keep going like this. I am not bitter just reporting what I have seen happen over the past 40 years with live music. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,600+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2011 3:58 AM
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MrVerylongusername
1514 posts
Jan 25, 2011
4:03 AM
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Somedays it's like pulling teeth, but it ain't professional to give in. It's just a hell of a lot easier to look like you're having fun on stage when you actually are.
Musicians are energy vampires, you feed off the crowds reaction.
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Hobostubs Ashlock
1379 posts
Jan 25, 2011
4:05 AM
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Pay to play I got a email on reverbnation from someone from Tulsa saying they could hook me up,I did some checking around and found out it was a pay to play scam,I emailed him and said pay to play,I dont have a car,I live 50 miles away,from Tulsa,I cant even buy a beer right now and Im thirsty,It will be a cold day in hell when i pay to play thats B.S I couldnt book a 12 pack worth of people;-)
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Hobostubs
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Diggsblues
702 posts
Jan 25, 2011
5:10 AM
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You need a good vibe,focus and an attitude that says
I'm gonna give you some great music and I'm a
bad mother. LOL
I heard the great jazz guitarist Jimmy Bruno
tell the audience "So what song don't you wanna hear next."
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Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind
How you doin'
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2011 5:15 AM
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Honkin On Bobo
591 posts
Jan 25, 2011
7:46 AM
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There is totally something to the notion that musicians feed off the crowd's energy.
But to me a true entertainer/musician/bluesman/rocker finds a place to go to within him/herself when confronted with a dead room. Let the pissed off-ness (if that's what your feeling) come out in the music. But never let the show suffer, as hard as that might be to do.
And above all, never try to chastise the audience for it's lack of attention...with rare exception, that's a battle you can't win.
I disagree that the audience has some kind of responsibility. No one owes you anything...with the exception of the venue owner/manager if it was a paying gig.
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2011 7:47 AM
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MrVerylongusername
1520 posts
Jan 25, 2011
8:16 AM
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I tend to find there's a point at which you realise you're flogging a dead horse. We play 2x45min sets of uptempo soul music. Usually by the last few numbers of the first set I've figured out whether we're ever going to get people dancing and singing along. If it's looking bad we throw in 'Mustang Sally' (musical prostitution; I hate doing it but it pays the bills!) If that doesn't hook 'em then we know where we stand.
Once I've realised that we're not going to get anything back from the crowd, I stop trying. No more 'let me see some hands in the air' and 'sing along with this one' stuff. If you keep trying with no response it is soul-destroying.
Instead I start looking to my bandmates for energy. the gig becomes more like the banter at a rehearsal - playing the music for ourselves. I find that is a good way of maintaining the positive energy you need to give a good account of yourself in the face of a disinterested audience.
And there's nothing worse (in my opinion) than forcing an encore just because you've written it on the setlist. If they want you back they'll scream. If they don't, then put the house lights up, and the bar music back on. Anything else just looks egotistical and pretentious.
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waltertore
968 posts
Jan 25, 2011
8:31 AM
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mrVerylongusername: that is why I say pick your room carefully.
It is a hollywood created scenario where a band walks in a dead room night after night and kicks it out via anger or whatever and the place goes crazy. In reality dead rooms stay dead all night no matter how the band comes across and pumping it out to nothingness is like a cross to Dracula. If anyone has toured and done a string of dead room gigs you will know what I am talking about. Playing it like a rehersal gets old real quick and the owner will not have you back most likely because there is no money coming in. That adds a double whammy to the experience.
Most amatuer players are thrilled to simply be on a stage. That is a great thing but when you are playing night after night those dead room gigs suck you dry real quick and learning how to fake it is a must if you are doing it for a living. Just like any job we got to fake it sometimes to survive.... That is one reason I quit just filling up the calendar with gigs regardless of where or what the scene was. This has resulted in me playing very little and having to get a regular day job.
I should have prefaced this post with - If you are wanting to interact with the crowd. I have played with guys that it doesn't seem to phase them one way or the other what the crowd does. The key is to find inside yourself what it is you need out of music and build your life around it. This can take a lifetime to figure out I am finding out!
Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,600+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2011 8:48 AM
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Miles Dewar
655 posts
Jan 25, 2011
9:53 AM
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It's important. Sometimes people just aren't interested though.
Audience response can be seen and taken note of by the gig provider.
And bringing Paying customers with you.
That's what Pay to Play is all about
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nacoran
3705 posts
Jan 25, 2011
10:26 AM
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Bamaharp, I think it depends on the venue. Sometimes you go out for a bite to eat at a favorite shop and music shows up unexpected. If you're an act that's playing someplace where the people might not be there for the music I don't see any problem with not being into the music. That said, say in a coffee shop, if you talk loudly enough so the band has to turn up you and then you glare at the band and just talk louder you might be an a**h***!
I used to go to an open mic at a coffee house where a bunch of my friends would hang out. Sometimes we'd get up and perform, but mostly we were just hanging out. Some acts were great. Some acts were terrible. If it was a boring act we'd pass our notebooks around with random doodles and wait for the next act. The only time we'd be noisy in a bad way (yes, sometimes we heckled) was if the act in question wasn't respecting the audience (there was one group that frequently came in, signed up, talked loudly the whole show, went up, performed songs that annoyed half the audience and then left and didn't stick around for the rest of the performers. We gave them a hard time.
We heard some complaints that people worried we were writing about them in our notebooks. We'd show them to anyone who asked. It was mostly dirty cartoons and song lyrics.
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Nate
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6SN7
150 posts
Jan 25, 2011
10:35 AM
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i gotta say waltertore, yeah got the right attitude. Last summer I booked a bunch of stuff for the band. Local, good pay and kept us busy. But they were gigs that we worked, delivered the goods and went home, which is professional. But in some cases, the audiences were pretty reserved because of the event circumstances/environment. At these events, we were usually part of the of a larger event.
As for whether the audience has a responsibility, that's a bit presumptuous, n'est pas? I don't need a group hug at the end of the night. Audiences aren't working, you are! But thats me...
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2011 10:41 AM
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toddlgreene
2552 posts
Jan 25, 2011
10:35 AM
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Down here there are clubs that folks go to hear music. There are also clubs where people go to talk, and don't want to talk over music, spare maybe a low-volume jukebox in the corner playing worn-out familiar tunes. Then there are clubs that are 'music' clubs, but if you aren't playing hits of the 80s and 90s or goofy singalongs or line-dance music(shudder!), they'll leave. But when you get in front of an audience that you know is there to hear what you're playing, you owe it to them and the club to keep them entertained to the best of your abilities. Having at least one person with great charisma onstage is a great step towards warming up an otherwise lukewarm crowd, too.
If you are entertaining, and they have a pulse and/or are drinking, they WILL respond, usually positively. Your work is done, and they've acknowledged you.
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Todd L. Greene, Professor of Meaningless Trivia
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2011 11:27 AM
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waltertore
971 posts
Jan 25, 2011
11:23 AM
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I love this kind of thread. I remember too many times playing great and no one responded and then playing just as good and people went crazy. 99% of this has to do with the venue. Clubs get reputations and the ones that have "great music" ones draw great listeners/interactive people. We played The Peers Festival in Belgium. It was packed and I did an entire set with just me on harp and my bassist. We went on right before The T Birds and BB King. It was a festival of hard hitting bands and here we were just the 2 of us. We got several standing ovations. Fast forward to the next morning. I get up and am still fired up from the night before and go out on the streets of the same town the festival was in. I play at least as good with just my harp and not a soul gave me a second look....
Have you guys ever seen that video of neil young playing on the street? Even with a camera out in the open filming, very few people stopped to listen. Yet take the same guy, the same song, and move it to a high ticket price venue and it will be sold out and screaming loud with many of the same people that walked him by. People were not scheduling "music listening" time when they passed him on the street but sure were when they bought tickets to his show that night. The old blues guys were classics in this sense. They might be playing a small dive tonight to nobody and tomorrow eric clapton has him onstage and 10,000 people go nuts over him. Yet none come to his gig in the same town the next night. Pick your venue carefully to meet your musical needs. I like that line :-) Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,600+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2011 11:27 AM
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LittleBubba
24 posts
Jan 25, 2011
11:31 AM
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If you're in a drinking club, I do think it's a responsibility to hold the crowd so they can buy drinks.
As far as how they respond.. sometimes there's nights where the crowd is just laid back, but enjoying themselves. that's alright with me, and like's been said before, if the band's having a good time ( and being infectious about it), it's all good.
But, if you're takin' a check, you got some responsibility.
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bluemoose
456 posts
Jan 25, 2011
11:51 AM
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Audience-performer non-interaction drives my wife crazy. It doesn't matter how good the performers are if they don't even acknowledge that the audience even exists, don't cleanly finish a song and don't give the crowd anytime to respond to it and/or acknowledge that response before starting the next song...she's ready to just leave. It should be a dance. If you don't lead and just stomp all over your partners toes, it's a wrestling match.
(Paul deLay was a master dancer. RIP)
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MBH Webbrain-a GUI guide to Adam's Youtube vids
FerretCat Webbrain-Jason Ricci's vids (by hair colour!)
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2011 11:52 AM
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PaulM
94 posts
Jan 25, 2011
12:19 PM
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I respect all of you who are doing and have done this full time. For us, it's a passion/hobby that pays enough to keep us in equipment and to cover our marginal costs. We live in a small town, so I don't think anyone around here is making a living at playing live music. We do have some reasonably big acts that come through for festivals / special events, but I've seen some of those acts not receive a rousing audience response. For instance, last October, Sugar Blue played a free festival on Kiawah Island, which is just South of Charleston. My wife and I pulled a lawn chair up front and thoroughly enjoyed the show, but the attendance was sparse and he crowd subdued, despite the free door. I'm not sure what this all means in a larger sense, but I feel very fortunate to have the relationship we have with two or three local clubs.
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Jim Rumbaugh
384 posts
Jan 25, 2011
8:16 PM
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In 1974, at the age of 22, I quit my job to be a full time musician in a band (playing bass). After 4 months of playing here and there, We were booked in Bowling Green,Ky, for 3 weeks, with 3 weeks to follow in Lexington, Ky. At the end of the 2nd week, the booking agent came up and said,"boys, we're canceling the contract. You aren't engaging the audiance." That's when I realized he was right. We were not really professional.
At the same time we were being told we were "not professional", a guy from the audience came up and told our guitar player that he was the best player that he had ever heard. But, there is more to performing than just playing music. I am a big believer in interaction with the crowd. This is a seperate talent from being a musician. This what makes a crowd go wild for a lousy band or a crowd ignore a good band. It's that same mojo that lets some guys get all the girls and other guys go empty handed.
I say, yes, we have a responsibility to get a response from the audience. It's just another skill set we need to work on.
(after we were fired, I went back to working 40 hours a week in a real job for the last 36 years)
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intermediate level (+) player per the Adam Gussow Scale, Started playing 2001
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Joe_L
1016 posts
Jan 25, 2011
9:15 PM
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I see it this way. Youre a performer. You had better perform. You're an entertainer. Your job is to entertain.
A good friend of mine in Chicago likes to play the bars on the South Side. He said that the patrons know the blues and playing to that audience keeps them at the top of their game when they play elsewhere. Sometimes, you have to slap someone in the head to get their attention, so you had better have some attention getting tricks up your sleeve. Considering, he's a guy that's had 30+ years of success, it seems reasonable.
The audience doesn't owe a performer or an entertainer a damn thing. It's a good idea to scan the room. You never know when something cool is going to happen in the audience.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2011 9:16 PM
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Bamaharp
9 posts
Jan 25, 2011
10:39 PM
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I've enjoyed reading the responses to my post and some folks have made some very good points about why we shouldn't get hung-up on crowd response. I'd like to point out that I normally play several nights a week, mostly restaurant/bar situations where I'm only part of the equation. Still, I almost always find a way to build some kind of relationship with the audience. I stand by what I said, though, that an audience may be made up of individuals, but it takes on a personality of it's own. Once in a while that personality is stubbornly ambivalent. While it's hard on the ego, it's also a fascinating phenomenon.
I've been doing this a long time - I understand that every venue is different, and I know how to work a crowd. If you gig regularly and don't ever experience this, then you're very, very good, and I envy you.
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Stevelegh
44 posts
Jan 26, 2011
12:46 AM
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I play guitar in a funk / disco band.
The rationale is that girls will get up and dance to We Are Family, Young Hearts Run Free, Carwash etc. Guys want the girls, so they get up too. Instant party.
My harp playing is confined to home at the moment, but I'd like to work in some War or Stevie tracks if they don't end up taking people off the dancefloor.
Some may think it's a sell out, but I think it's important, in fact more important that the punter has a good time, the bar / club I'm playing at makes money and I consider my gratification in a lowly third place.
If I knew I could play blues and get the same response, I would, but all that seems to happen is hairy guys in leather jackets stand watching the guitar player with their arms folded. You might get a foot tapping if you're lucky.
Plus, doing what I do, I occasionally get to see drunk girls dancing on tables with no panties on. That's a real chore.......
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2011 12:47 AM
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NiteCrawler .
104 posts
Jan 26, 2011
8:52 AM
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I,ve been in both situations in the past mostly 90% of them being totally positive(one of the 10% was a puerto rican company picnic that our bass player booked,euw.. boy) We did a gig back in the early 90,s a week after the bar had a major drug bust go down.10 to 12 people sat at the bar with they,re heads up they,re asses(no more coke,I guess) opposed to the couple of times before that when you couldn,t fit any more folks into the joint, staying until the last song was over.I have found that especially if your in a Blues/Roots band and your playing a 10 pm to 2or 3am gig that your appealing to a mostly 30 and over crowd.Once the starting gun goes off and the crowd is having a great time,drinking,dancing etc. we would play for at least 2 hrs to keep the crowd captive so the owner would make his nut and be satisfied.With an older crowd like that if you break on the norm 45m to an hour your going to lose a good part of your audience. (baby sitters,old and tired,or just smart and not go over the limit drinking and driving)We did a 9:30 start one night at another place and played until 1am without a break and the bartender asked me; Whats wrong with you guys don,t you take a break? I told her that if I took a break I,d have to go take a nap in my car.Another quick story;I suggested a bar for my friends band, a B-side kind of cover band,anyway I knew the gal who booked the bands and they showed to do the gig.(I couldn,t make it for some reason,Thank,you know who) Anyway they played about 4 or 5 tunes and she told them to pack up your equipment fellas,band practise is over.Now thats some Funky Cold Medina.Bottom line,you can,t please all of the people all of the time,But you sure can try like hell.Anymore I prefer to play 4 to 8 happy hours,It sure is better watching the sunset instead of watching it rise.
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chromaticblues
531 posts
Jan 26, 2011
9:53 AM
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@ Jim R. Thanks for sharing that. Isn't that shit hard to admit to yourself!
Take Honkin on Bobo and Jim R's two post and there you have the truth. Thats what happens when your out there. A couple times I was lucky enough to be playing music with either a great musician or a showman. My first band I wasn't a very good harp player, but I was young and basically out of control drinking and doing drugs acting like I was nuts on stage. I had a violent distructive side when I was young and people love to watch someone freak out while they drank. Times have changed and so have I.
The only reason I even bring this up is to be in music biz and do well you have to be different. You have to stand out (hopefully in a good way). You have to do what you do well and MEAN IT! You have to make sure every time you play people are going to remember it. If your not capable of doing that or unwilling to put yourself out there then its going to be hard. I'm a withdrawn person now because of the way I was when I was young and it is hard for me now. So its a tough thing! If you want it just keep trying and don't pay attention to people saying you can't do it.
Do your thing and have fun. People will clap if you give them a reason to!
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Barry C.
145 posts
Jan 26, 2011
12:23 PM
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The audience is only responsible for paying their bar tab!
My job is to entertain - the audience has no job in this except maybe not to be rude - However I do judge my own performance directly by how many bodies are on the dance floor...
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~Banned in Boston!
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LittleJoeSamson
466 posts
Jan 26, 2011
1:53 PM
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There's a reason it's called a "show".
When doing a public performance, we should all be aware of engaging the audience, with respect to the type of venue. Sometimes, we do our best, and get little in return. Helps to have some one-liners handy to get the audience to open up. Still, they're the boss.
I've known excellent players that just had to focus on their playing or they'd get lost. Not everyone has the entertaining gene.
Every once in a while, though, things just click. Happened last night with a full house that was very receptive. Had a good half dozen new players show up along with the regulars. One young fellow on hot violin was outstanding.
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scojo
202 posts
Jan 26, 2011
2:41 PM
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I am lucky in that I play and live in a good music town (Jackson, Mississippi), so the appreciation level is high enough that I can play originals and mostly obscure covers (with a few exceptions) and still gig, on average, three times per week.
That said, in order to gig that much (which I have to do in order to keep the lights on and my kids fed), I have to play some places that, all things taken equal, I'd rather not play. C'est la vie. These are not bad places -- generally they are nice restaurants with a bar -- and the crowds are usually respectful... but they aren't there, for the most part, to hear me. A "we enjoyed it" on the way out is typical... rapt attention, in these venues, is not.
I think the musician's responsibility, primarily, is to play good music, whatever that might be. Beyond that, if your thing is to "put on a show", then by all means put on a show. Prince is a phenomenal musician who puts on a blast of a show... Eric Clapton is a phenomenal musician who has virtually no stage presence. They are both great and I don't think either is "shirking his responsibility".
Be who you are and be the absolute best at that particular job. The rest is out of your control.
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