BlueDoc
16 posts
Jan 14, 2011
6:10 PM
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I've read a lot of comments here and other places about "proximity effect," which is a sort of bass boost that some microphones produce when they're very close to the sound source.
I've also been reading up on Electro-Voice mics (because I'm curious about the RE-10 which some people here have recommended for harp), and some of their mics are recommended for some situations because they have little or no proximity effect, while others are recommended for other situations because they do have a proximity effect. But none of the situations I read about involved playing amplified harp through the mics.
Is proximity effect desirable or undesirable in general, when choosing a mic to play amplified harp with?
Is it desirable or undesirable when choosing a mic for miking an amp into the PA?
Thanks...
Mark
Last Edited by on Jan 14, 2011 6:18 PM
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Greg Heumann
991 posts
Jan 14, 2011
6:34 PM
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Damn good question and I don't have a straight answer for you. I CAN tell you that proximity effect usually refers to the difference between standing 6 inches from a mic, and touching your lip to it when you sing. In either case, the mic is in "free air." When you pick up a vocal mic and cup it in your hands for harp, all bets are off. The mic will no longer perform as specified with regard to proximity effect, directionality, or frequency response.
So just pick what you like and don't worry about the specs. The RE10 is a popular harp mic though it is very long and ungainly to hold, especially if you add a volume control and / or wireless transmitter. For that reason many previous RE10 players like Jason and Jay Gaunt have switched to Ultimate 57's.
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/Greg
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7LimitJI
310 posts
Jan 14, 2011
8:39 PM
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I would agree with Gregs reply regarding cupping.
On a slightly different note.
For playing accoustic harp and singing,I prefer a mic with as little proximity effect as possible.
As you can sing or play "off" the mic and still have it warm with plenty of bass.
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BlueDoc
17 posts
Jan 14, 2011
9:06 PM
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@Greg: Thanks. Can the handle of an RE-10 be chopped (to make an "Ultimate" version), or can a volume control be added into it?
If not, then does an SM-57 sound reasonably similar to an RE-10?
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BlueDoc
18 posts
Jan 14, 2011
9:11 PM
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@7LimitJI: Thanks for that point. I forgot about playing acoustic.
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hvyj
1098 posts
Jan 15, 2011
6:12 AM
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"does an SM-57 sound reasonably similar to an RE-10?"
SM 57 is smoother than an RE 10. SM 57 sounds closer to an RE 15.
I used an RE 15 for many years. Switched to an Ultimate 545 shortly after Greg started to make them. No regrets.
In my experience, using an outboard VC with an EV mic affects the quality of the sound output somewhat, not just the volume level. The integral VCs on the Ultimate mics don't degrade sound quality. Not sure why this is so.
Now to be fair, the little bulb or head which contains the mic element makes the RE 10 and RE 15 very comfortable to hold and easy to cup. But what Greg says about length if you add VC or wireless transmitter is very true.
I think a 57 is a better all around mic than a 545, but I also think that a 545 sounds better for harp. I'm an electric player. I think my 545 Ultimate is the best and most versatile harp mic I've ever used. But YMMV.
I prefer a mic with proximity effect for electric harp playing. You can do more with cupping and mic handling technique with a mic that has proximity effect. 57s 545s RE 10s and RE 15s all have proximity effect and are all very decent mics for harp.
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PT
78 posts
Jan 15, 2011
9:51 AM
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I play through a Fireball V because it has very little proximity effect. I am looking for the same tone either 3 inches away from the mic or right on top of it. Point being you need to figure out what your looking for tone and effect wise. Greg's ultimate 58's and 57's are excellent mics!
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"Life...10 Holes & 20 Reeds At A Time"
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MrVerylongusername
1495 posts
Jan 15, 2011
11:20 AM
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It's an effect - kind of like asking "is delay desirable?" -it depends on the context.
As a singer I use the proximity effect a lot to get "different favours" while I'm singing.
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isaacullah
1361 posts
Jan 15, 2011
2:53 PM
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Not to hijack this thread, but I have kind of a related question: Does the angle that you hold the mic to the sound source affect it's tone or the proximity effect at all? ie, if you hold a mic at a 45 to the back of the harp, will it distort the same was as when you hold it directly facing the back of the harp? I suppose I could just fool around and experiment with this myself, but I was wondering if that was something that was already "known"... Plus, I haven't gotten to play amplified around the house since my wife got laid off and is home all the time now. She hates it when I get "loud"! :)
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MrVerylongusername
1498 posts
Jan 15, 2011
3:02 PM
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Yes the angle effects tone (depending on the pick-up pattern of the mic), but as Greg points out above, it only really applies to mics in free air; once you cup a mic, you completely alter its pick-up pattern making it unidirectional.
Last Edited by on Jan 15, 2011 3:03 PM
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hvyj
1111 posts
Jan 15, 2011
3:11 PM
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Yeah. If you hold the mic grill above or below the rear of the harp so that the harp isn't blowing directly into the element of the cupped mic you will affect tone. Or, a more extreme example would be to hold the grill pointing at the floor cupped directly above the back of the harp so the airflow is running under the element. I'm talking about PA style mics. You keep the airflow from hitting the mic element full force.
You might ask why anyone would actually do this. Well, if you've ever been invited to sit in with a loud rock band that has no sound man and you get handed a PA mic EQ'd for lead vocals it's a way to play through that mic without getting unbearable volume and still get a semblance of decent tone. it's also a way to back off volume if you don't have a VC on the mic and the mic is real hot. These things happen when you sit in with a variety of different bands so you develop mic handling techniques in order to compensate.
These techniques will also work to give the harp a somewhat far away or distant sound for background work when played into a properly EQ'd mic with proper performance volume.
Now, if you've got a properly EQ'd mic at decent performance volume, if it's cupped tight and close to the harp a 45 degree angle won't make a whole lot of difference--maybe a very slight difference if any. If the cup is not tight there may be more of an audible difference.
Last Edited by on Jan 15, 2011 4:26 PM
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isaacullah
1362 posts
Jan 15, 2011
3:33 PM
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Oh wow! Great info! Thanks for that... It's very good to know!
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Greg Heumann
993 posts
Jan 16, 2011
12:12 AM
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@BlueDoc. Can't chop the RE-10. There's a transformer inside that tiny barrel, completely potted in with epoxy. You can add my low-Z XLR volume control.
@hvyj - the circuit in my XLR volume control is indentical what is in the Ultimate mic. It may be that the Shure heads are just more amenable.
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/Greg
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