Here's a new video. Is the poster a member of this forum?
The solo interests me because the player has some talent--and some speed, certainly!--but, to my ears, misdeploys it. He makes a common mistake: he holds nothing in reserve but instead starts on 10 and tries to maintain. But that leaves him nowhere to go. I think WalterTore and BBQBob would agree with me: what the audience wants is exactly the opposite: start by solidifying the groove, making it clear that you're really locked in. Give people a moment to center themselves on the harmonica as it emerges for a solo. THEN start to power up.
That's my initial thought, but I'll be interested in yours. Be aware that this player may, for all we know, be a member of this forum. Be constructive!
[Edited to add: To be fair, the audience DOES show signs of liking what's going on, and that's good. My point isn't that this sort of speed-demon stuff is ineffective, but that the solo would have been more effective if, for example, the opening chorus of solo had come later in the solo, after the slightly slower and simpler stuff that follows.]
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2011 5:22 AM
Adam I totally agree... sure the guy has got some nice control on this kind of "Popper" run. At the same time he's not following any chord change and he's definitely not goin' anywhere musically speaking.
Sounds like noodling to me and maybe it's like you've said: he starts at 10 and soon he finds out he has already shot all his bullets.
In short words I don't hear any music, just a collection of chops deployed without a particular order or intention or feeling for the song the band's playing.
oh man...I'm work and can't see the video-but I hope it's not me!
I have the fast licks, and don't deploy them much, and only at crescendos/climaxes when I do(unless it suits the music to do otherwise). Fifteen-twenty years ago was a different story-suffice it to say I was a huge Blues Traveler fan early on, when they were just getting a name for themselves. Now I know how to balance quality and quantity a lot better, and somewhere along the line I started playing with feeling and emotion-which needs a thread on its own. ----------
Todd L. Greene, Professor of Meaningless Trivia
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2011 6:08 AM
I hear solid musical ability and chops, but without the restraint necessary to allow the solo to tell a story. I hear plenty of evidence in there that he actually COULD tell a story, but he gets caught up in the patterns for their own sake. It very well could have been a matter of getting caught up in the moment.
I am not sure if this point has been made before, but I think that one of the problems with assessing solos based on a YouTube clip is that it takes the solo out of the context of the evening's entire performance. When we play a song at a gig, that song -- and certainly a solo by itself -- does not exist in a vacuum. It has a context: that which came before and after, the mood of the crowd etc.
So if the night was really cooking and people were having an intense time, the solo might have made more sense in that context than it appears to here.
That said, it does seem a bit over the top. If Buddha was here, I think he would say that this fellow was playing "with ego". I wouldn't put it that way myself, though... it just sounds like got carried away.
I would agree with your assessment (watched the video before reading your comment so as not to be swayed).
Two observations: 1)At one point some of the really high end fast stuff, to my albeit untrained ear, sounded like a repetitive glissando, which was the least appealing part of the solo for me (and I LOVE glissandos in the right context) and 2) that got the biggest WHOO!! from someone in the crowd..so what do I know?
I thought the non-super speed stuff was actually pretty good and dug it.
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2011 10:29 AM
Yeah, no where to go... but it seems like just a clip from the middle of something. I'd like to see more of what happened before we got to this part in the song to know how it fits into the bigger hole.
He sounds a little like Popper, and a little like Darrell Mansfield.
The only player that I like to hear play the high licks is Sugar Blue. He just has a different approach that sounds more like it fits musically to me, rather than just oodles of noodles.
I love his song "Krystaline" for that high lick stuff.
I believe that's correct, according to the YT page his name is: kyle lee sousa........I think.
From the page: "About Me: blues, funk, soul, I can play harmonica guitar and keys. I'm available for gigs, studio work, and lessons. I make beats as well."
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2011 9:42 AM
Do we all go through the fast lick phase? I certainly did after hearing Blues Traveler 4, and sitting down in amazement at Poppers speed and gear change.
That was then, but right now I liked what that young man was doing, he is confident and heard the rythym, he will mature into a very tasty player.
he's just sliding the 10 draw to 6 or 7 draw and 9 blow to 6 or 7 blow or vice versa (sometimes in increments and sometimes alternating inhale/exhale), which gives the illusion of speed but it's just a slur. He's doing at a relatively controlled fast speed, so he's getting the illusion of some separation between the notes. It's actually possible to do this much faster--I do it to show off sometimes or generate excitement in a fast tempo solo (after I build up to a crescendo point). It ain't hard to do.
I'm not being critical--it sounds cool. Now, if he was actually playing mixolydian scale tones or chord extension tones at that speed with actual articulated separation between the notes I'd be more impressed.
One of the clues that gives away what he is doing is that it sounds like he plays with extremely smooth legato in the high register but his articulation is a little sloppy in the middle register. He sounds smooth in the high register because he's just slurring.
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2011 11:25 AM
Wow that has almost no phrasing and says almost nothing. I would say he doesn't know how to build a solo. Not the best tone maybe that's why he plays so fast. You can play fast and still phrase.
---------- Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind How you doin'
Dang, I havent heard much constructive criticism. I can't offer much more that what Adam said. Maybe build some tension with bends. Ask some questions with the 3 hole draw. Then answer with the fast stuff. Gotta give the guy credit for working it out on stage. ---------- get off the computer and play some harp
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2011 2:12 PM
Those kind of notes remind me of someone doing the Jerry Lee Lewis piano lick where he runs his finger up and down the keys...only doing it over and over...
All this dude has is some tricks up his sleeve, and that's all I got to say about it.
I am very intrigued with the fast "Popper" sound. I don't really like listening to Popper after a few songs, but I would really like to be able to pull of some "shock factor" licks like this (once I've built it up enough). Is there a technique anyone can explain or video I should check out?
I'm with Nacoran here : it is the end of a solo, not the whole thing. He may be at ten, but maybe also he started at 1 (or 5...). It doesn't tell much, but could be as the conclusion of the whole story.
So, too short to judge, but I admire the technique, I doubt I could do it myself.
Edit : I play sometimes these kind of licks, but probably not as fast and precise. All I can say, it has to be done with the tongue.
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2011 1:59 PM
My take on a few comments here is that the flow of the song needs to be taken into account, I'll keep that in mind while I abuse my Suzuki.
He can certanly play and play well for my ears. So it seems like you need to really feel the music inside to let it out to its fullest potential which Im sure this guy has plenty.
I liked it. If there's weakness, it's only in occasional poor timing due to lack of control of the glissandos and concomitant lack of stress on the important note in the phrase/missing the beat. In other words, it runs away with him. A little more practise is needed, that's all, so that he has more control. I thought all but about 1 note was apt for the chordal progressions. ---------- Andrew, gentleman of leisure, noodler extraordinaire.
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2011 2:14 PM
Did nothing for me. He'd be better to slow down,Play a few blusey licks with bends, then maybe hit you with the fast noodling. Use more contrasting playing.
Actually best if he watched the video a few times,and asked himself "What am I saying in this song?"
There is another player who post regular You Tube videos who plays exactly like this all the time, fast runs up & down the high end of the harp. I would like to be able to play some of them runs but if you play them all the time it doesn't sound very musical It definitely doesn't sound bluesy. It sounds good in small doses but I wouldn't want to listen to somebody who was playing like that all the time. I'm not knocking the lad in the video as that could of been the end of a Jam
This is a very interesting thread since I makes me realize the analogies between speech and music. Nobody would for instance apply for a job at that speed of speech or failure guaranteed, right? One would wanna speak clearly --and scarcely-- while LISTENING to who ever is sitting behind that desk. Am I making sense? What, IMHO, this player is clearly NOT doing is listening. He's monologuing instead of dialoguing. As a listener, I find myself having little patience for that. "You don't have to play all these notes. Play the most beautiful ones" (Miles Davis)
In this video is he in 2nd with an F harp playing against C lines by the band? This business intrigues me a little. I can see punching along with a Bflat diatonic in 3rd here doing the saxophone chords, then flying into some Bill Clark licks for maybe 12-24 bars and then switching to an F harp to go into his madness just to, as you say, "showoff". And then ending the song with some first position with a C diatonic. (I will steal words somewhere that will work without going into the hackneyed "my baby left me stuff" etc etc) I think I will learn it and add it to my show somewhere...it doesn't have to stop in C either...lots of ideas floating around. I hope your diagnosis of the riffs is correct because that is where I am going to start..I copied and pasted them into Word and then did a printout. Your comments again please, sir, am I going down the correct road from the gate? Regards, Joe Lee
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2011 2:45 PM
Boy don't I know how easy it is to let that hot piece of metal in your mouth get away from you, but that was years ago for me and only deployed very briefly,thank goodness. I agree, there was too much high-end noodling that didn't get in the pocket with the song. He should have built up his solo from the bottom before shootin' his wad, over and over! There's nothing more tiresome and boring than a harp player that does not listen to what's being played and does not know when to stop playing. It's all about using those attachments on the sides of our heads isn't it? I love Popper also, but I have know desire to play like him. now if I could play like Adam or joeleebush, that would be a miracle!
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2011 5:03 PM
I dunno, IMO the stuff he plays lower down is too close to donkey harp, no wonder he stays up high so much. He scarcely establishes control of holes 1-6, his intonation's shaky down there, especially noticeable in the transitional 4-6 hole range--how good does the 5 draw sound, he seems to linger slightly on it to ill effect. I mean he's inconsistent down there, bits do work but that makes the weak parts sound worse by comparison. He may need to play an ET harp for his purposes, but this segment didn't convince me that he's in command of blues tonality/phrasing lower on the harp, which to me is the foundation you want for going faster and higher. Sorry if that's harsh; I'm not sure this clip is a representative sample of what he can do.
@joeleebush: I'm not sure what you're asking me. I'm pretty comfortable playing the high end in second position when it fits the music and I'm positive I know what this guy is doing to sound like he's playing really fast. But his licks have no coherence or meaningful relationship to the underlying chords, and he's just slurring around on the high end. It's not anything that should be imitated unless you just want to show off.
a little trick on the high end to crescendo a solo is to slur down from draw 10 (which is the 9th) really fast to draw 7 and then follow that immediately by doing the same from blow 9 (which is root ) to blow 7, then immediately repeat each slur once more. I do it faster than this guy is slurring and it sounds exciting and is sort of musical because it gives you arpeggios, but i don't do it very often--just every once in a blue moon when i have have built up some energy and need to go to "eleven" for a hot second or two. It's a cheap trick and you need to follow it with something more substantive.
My basic approach to high end second position playing is to either play extension tones or mixolydian scale on the high register with no bends. I bridge the registers by hitting B5 (a sixth) and D6 (a ninth) instead of hitting D5 and B6.
Having been screwing around with the upper end stuff for a while i am able to hear exactly how this guy is playing his high end licks. He's not good at playing fast with articulation, so he's slurring instead to give the illusion of fast tempo playing. He's not a good example of how to do it.
As far as switching harps is concerned, personally, I don't switch harps in a tune unless the tune modulates from key to key or there's a chord or chord based lick I MUST hit that requires a different harp (like, for example, on the Miles Davis tune, "So What"). I'm not saying you shouldn't switch harps if you need to in order to execute a musical idea, but I don't do it unless i have to.
i pretty much agree with the assessments expressed by Diggs and htownfess. i hope i've answered your question.
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2011 6:20 PM
that is EXACTLY what I want to do with it..."show off". And, I think those lines up there can be stunning when used sparingly and not overdone. I can handle very well any issues of soul, heart, feel, or any of that other stuff. But his "noodling" as some call it has a place in some ideas of mine. I was just asking were you dead sure those were the riffs he was hitting when you typed them. I have a tooth broken off inside a crown up front so I cant mess with it now until I get finished with the dentist thing, but I am going to give it a pop. Thats what I was asking...are you dead certain those are the holes...I can do it from there. Regards, Me
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2011 6:26 PM
I'm NOT dead certain those are the holes he's playing, but using those holes will work. You can hit B6 and D6, too if you want, but stay off D5.
Another thing he does is change breath direction in the middle of a gliss, which makes it sound like he's selecting notes instead of just slurring. BFD.
IMHO, the way to play at really fast tempo under control and WITH articulation is to execute separation between the notes by starting and stopping your diaphragm. If you get good at that, have good time, and can bend precisely with your throat without using your tongue you can get to saxophone speed. But it requires practice and much better technique than this guy has.
CAVEAT: My suggestions about high end playing in my immediately previous post may not be traditional blues sounding but will work playing blues. It's sort of a Sugar Blue-ish kind of approach, not that i am comparing myself to SB. I'm just referring to SBs ideas for context.
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2011 6:56 PM
I'm with Htown, in this clip he is leaning hard on the high register techno-glissing, and is showing less chutzpah on the low end, indicating that he is relying on that riff to get him through the bars.
Clearly he has put in time on the harp, might be primarily a rocker moonlighting on some blues. ---------- Shane
IMO music is a totally subjective thing. What one considers great another thinks it is trash. There really is no right or wrong in art. If the guy digs what he is doing that is all that really matters. But to control artist, generes, and the money, the music business has appointed "experts" to tell the masses what is right and wrong and this is how music has become popular or not. No musician has ever attained the "great" label without the "experts" endorsing them. I kind of get a chuckle out of people disecting players. I listened to about 30 seconds. That is all I could handle. He showed everything he knew in about the first 5 seconds. Stuff like this is so easy to play it isn't of any interest to me. Anybody can play a million notes a minute. Jams are full of this stuff. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Sounds like Modern Blues Harmonica to me. It's new and refreshing. It's not traditional. It's great stuff!
Honestly, this guy is fighting the groove that the band is laying down. He's got some skills, but he isn't playing with the band. He also seems to run out of ideas. Quite often, this is what happens when the player doesn't let the music breathe and isn't listening to what's going on around them and playing off that.
Like Joe_L says... let the music breathe.... I say, don't shoot your load right away. Let the band play with you! and you play with them...share the grooooove. And like J.B. says, "give the drummer some"... This guy has some licks, for sure...all I can add is...his next project ought to be 'more with less'. wait til I post something of mine...let it rain! wahoooo!
I like those high end things, but I'd only do that perhaps once or twice in a tune.
As has been mentioned, the low end stuff is uncontrolled. I don't like his embrouchure, it sounds too half hearted. A bit like Mick Jagger or Keith Relf from The Yardbirds. He's out of time, not in the groove at all, but that's sometimes somthing people don't get until they've been playing with a band for a while.
That said, all this is without knowing anything about this guy. He may have been playing a couple of months, in which case, bravo.
Last Edited by on Jan 14, 2011 2:56 AM
Gotta agree with the rest - All the tension and build was gone by starting off with the higher end and faster playing. He plays better than I do, and gets on stage for it - no slouch there, but I'd be inclined to reverse it and build some tension and tempo and end with where he began.
He showed he has a trick bag with a few tricks in it-problem is, when he opened it, he forgot to close it. All the tricks fell out at once, and fast!
We don't know the whole story here, though-this could have been one of those 'come jam with the band and get a free shot' deals, and this was his tenth and final time on stage for the night, so he was going out with a bang. Or, just as likely, he's being encouraged to play just what you saw here by his buddies who know he can play it. They're not a bunch of harp nerds like us; judging his tone, his every technique, his gear, what harps he plays, whether he's paying proper homage to the Little, Big and Medium Walters. They're all living in the moment, harp player included, and having a good ol' time. More power to him.
But, I suspect, after he himself heard this, he's probably seen his own speed limit sign and where he could have done a little better. ----------
"We don't know the whole story here, though-this could have been one of those 'come jam with the band and get a free shot' deals, and this was his tenth and final time on stage for the night, so he was going out with a bang."
Well, if that's the case, the moral of the story may be that a player should try as hard as he can to be as musical as he can EVERY time he plays. That helps one improve and develop a level of consistency.
Last Edited by on Jan 14, 2011 5:31 AM
You're right Andrew-this is just one moment in time. This guy might have many other appearances under his belt where he melded better with the music and the band, and kept some of those tricks in the bag. Hvyj, exactly-one has to learn the fine line of staying with the music and showing off a little without sounding like you're playing with a different band in your head. ----------
Well, long before I ever had a paying gig, I would always try very hard to respect the stage and respect the music ANY time I played in public with other musicians. I'd also place great importance on stage courtesy.
you know what? Long, long before I actually knew what I was doing, I had standing invitations to sit in with terrific bands that had really good musicians. From them i learned basic music theory and over time I developed the experience that (along with practice) got me to the point where i get paid to play. At the beginning I really had no business playing with bands that good. But as i look back, i think it was my approach to the stage and to the music that got me all those opportunities to play and learn--it clearly was not my ability. And it's nice just to show up and automatically be invited to sit in without having to ask.
I consider myself very fortunate. But as i look back, I think maybe I made my own luck by HOW I went about trying to play even when I didn't know how to play competently. I ain't no Jimi Hendrix anyway.
