kudzurunner
2232 posts
Jan 12, 2011
7:31 AM
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It's a new year, everybody. 2010 on this forum went out with a wrenching loss: the sudden death of Chris Michalek, who was beloved by some here, disliked by others, tolerated by still others. Chris was sometimes, although by no means always, at the center of the rancor that appeared in threads here with some frequency. I was sometimes at the center of that rancor. Remember TNFrank and Nasty Old Dog? Remember the ballad of Violin Cat? It was a rough year.
It is now 2011. Towards the end of last year, in the aftermath of Chris's passing, I took stock and decided that I'd failed this forum in one significant respect: although many here were making it plain that they were both dwelling in negativity AND tired of negativity, I'd failed to appoint a sufficient number of deputies and failed to give them enough power--including the power to lock threads--so that they might do an effective job. To the extent that some threads went south and STAYED south, rather than being shut down and allowed to die, I bear the responsibility for having failed to act decisively.
Rather than dwelling in negativity myself, or listening to those who insisted that this forum had terminally fallen on hard times, I decided to make some changes. Several of those changes will become apparent in the next few weeks. One of them has already become apparent.
As the year drew to a close, I appointed three new moderators and gave them and Nacoran administrator status on this website. While exercising oversight, I also made clear that I trusted them to do the job that needed to be done.
Their job is quite simple: to keep the peace. A good forum requires a balance between an openness that fosters vigorous dialogue and a willingness to exercise power in a way that will sometimes appear as though it is shutting down dialogue.
Given the rancor that pervaded this forum in 2010, I have asked my moderators, when in doubt, to err on the side of caution. This means allowing sometimes-edgy dialogues to continue even when some on the forum (and/or an individual moderator) would prefer to lock threads. It also means shutting down the occasional thread BEFORE things have gotten really ugly.
I do hope you'll give Nathan, Todd P., Todd G., and Peter the respect they've more than earned through their many contributions and notable equanimity over the past year or two. They are YOUR moderators. They've generously agreed to help me out, but they have their own minds and I encourage them to speak their minds.
I look forward to more vigorous, enlightening, and productive discussions on this forum.
Last Edited by on Jan 12, 2011 7:34 AM
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Littoral
246 posts
Jan 12, 2011
8:06 AM
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@kudzu
"It also means shutting down the occasional thread BEFORE things have gotten really ugly."
The $300 harp thread, I think, was a good example.
Noticed the moderator is no longer in training (codger).
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groyster1
724 posts
Jan 12, 2011
8:07 AM
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I know the 2 todds but not peter and nathan but quite sure they will be good moderators
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phogi
498 posts
Jan 12, 2011
8:16 AM
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A suggestion for moderators: Don't warn. Simply lock. We've observed many times here that warning those involved in perpetuating a conflict does nothing at all, and creates animosity towards the moderators.
Also, I think it would be good policy to disallow public questioning of the moderators decisions.
Also, I think public admonishments darken the tone. All that need be done to a bad thread is to lock it. I don't feel a moderator needs to justify themselves with a post, as has been the practice.
This comes from my experience with school kids. If you warn, all you are doing is saying 'It's ok to break the rules once.' If you admonish a kid in front of his peers you create hostility, no matter how well you do it, no matter how correct you are.
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eharp
1083 posts
Jan 12, 2011
8:17 AM
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i thought the recently locked thread was shut down prematurely.
in fact, i assumed that this thread was to let folks know that some modified direction was being given to the moderators.
"This means allowing sometimes-edgy dialogues to continue even when some on the forum (and/or an individual moderator) would prefer to lock threads."
either way, it is nice to see adam delegating some of the forum responsibilities (as well as the HCH duties. geez, now i wonder what's going on in his classrooms and at home now. lol)
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Andy Ley
32 posts
Jan 12, 2011
8:43 AM
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@Kudzurunner: I've only been here a short time but this is a lively and interesting forum. That, I believe, is thanks in no small part to the light hand it is run with. From what I've seen all the mods picked are sensible individuals (I've been on too many websites where the mods go off on power trips) and I think this decision is definitely a good thing!
@phogi: I don't think it's as black and white as that. I agree that a flagrant and clearly intentional breach of forum rules does, and should qualify for an immediate and unexplained locking. If, however, a thread is skirting close to the edge but nobody is appearing to intend any malice I think a warning is fair and appropriate. Just my viewpoint. Other peoples may vary!
TBH though, I'm happy for the chosen mods to play it as they see fit. Crack on guys!
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Littoral
247 posts
Jan 12, 2011
9:00 AM
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phogi’s points are interesting.
@phogi A suggestion for moderators: Don't warn. Simply lock.
I agree, sometimes it’s best to draw the line when the rationale shouldn’t need explanation.
@phogi Also, I think it would be good policy to disallow public questioning of the moderators decisions.
I don’t agree. Questions are important, as always within civil and rational boundaries.
@phogi This comes from my experience with school kids. If you warn, all you are doing is saying 'It's ok to break the rules once.' If you admonish a kid in front of his peers you create hostility, no matter how well you do it, no matter how correct you are.
Depends on the rule. If it was clear and they should have known the rule then draw the line immediately -an explanation shouldn’t be necessary.
Otherwise, I am always teaching and that absolutely includes being an example of how reasonable and respectful people should communicate. If an incident provides an opportunity to help someone learn something they need to know then that is my job.
True, admonishment does create hostility and my professional challenge is to address the situation with tact and respect. That ain’t easy. The big stick is easy. Don’t mistake patience for weakness. When the stick is necessary it’s very, very, efficient.
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phogi
500 posts
Jan 12, 2011
9:11 AM
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Stick? I'm not allowed to use a stick. I don't think I would be comfortable using one, to be honest.
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Arnoud73
56 posts
Jan 12, 2011
9:16 AM
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Guys, just let the moderators do their job.
Why discuss how they should do it ?
If they need advise they will proberly open a topic about it...
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www.sweetportblues.com
http://www.myspace.com/arnoudbluesharp
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waltertore
905 posts
Jan 12, 2011
9:24 AM
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I came back because of the postitive vibes I saw happening here. I applaud Adam for moving in this direction. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,600+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
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kudzurunner
2233 posts
Jan 12, 2011
9:35 AM
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Thanks, Walter. BTW, when you decide to organize a one-man harpin' band throwdown--some weekend this summer for example--Brandon and I will drive up and I'm sure Deak will be there. We might be able to convince Ben Prestage to come; I had a nice email exchange with him recently. Just say the word.
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waltertore
908 posts
Jan 12, 2011
10:03 AM
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You are welcome Adam and thanks for having me here! I have a 1/2 acre yard, and a concrete pad that is off my studio building. I have a full PA and can run recording gear out the window and get it all on cd and also with the cd sound on a video( I have done this on some of my videos). I do a bunch of house parties every year(one is saturday). I cook some good food and invite music lovers. Sean Carney (IBC winner), one of my old austin bandmates that is an incredible keys/acordian player/drummer/grammy award winning musician/recording engineer, a world reknowned fiddler that lives in town, and a great local drummer, are slated to be there.
I would love to do a 1 MB thing this summer. We could also invite Dave Harris (writing the 1 MB book). It can all be documented on a dvd. I can smoke ribs, brisket, chicken, pork butts, as well(learned from the legendary Stubbs in Austin). I am not good at asking people to pay and am a terrible banker. If someone would handle that end and or we just do it for the sake of doing it - a worlds first- I am ready to go. This would be a dream come true. So many different angles on the 1 MB would be a great success. Walter
PS: I am 30 miles due east of Columbus Ohio.
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,600+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Jan 12, 2011 10:31 AM
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LIP RIPPER
366 posts
Jan 12, 2011
12:24 PM
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No Shit! You learned how to from Stubbs? That's serious smokin. I know you've got shag bark hickory in that neck of the woods. Anytime someone comes south to visit me they have explicit instructions to peel bark from the nearest tree's and deliver it to south Fla. Nothin sweeter.
Glad to see you back in town Bro.
LR
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nacoran
3640 posts
Jan 12, 2011
12:31 PM
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Groyster, I know we've never met in person, but I'm me!
...Nacoran pouts in the corner, whimpering "But I thought I was famous," starts writing a blues song about not being famous, and starts to feel better.
As for feedback, I always welcome feedback about what I do, as a moderator or just as silly old me. If anyone ever wants to talk of board about something I'm on Facebook or you can email me. My hotmail address is the same as my handle here.
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Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
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ncpacemaker
130 posts
Jan 13, 2011
7:20 AM
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Suddenly I feel the need to comment on this thread. After being warned against "cursing" by moderator Mr. Greene for jokingly using the term A-holes(not ass holes...A-holes)read the thread I really think there should be an appeal process to the high judge Mr. KZR. In case Mr. Greene should banish me for using the dreaded d-word for example.
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My YouTube Channel
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2011 9:28 AM
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nacoran
3647 posts
Jan 13, 2011
9:15 AM
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nc, I think it was because the word was targeted at someone, not because it was a swear, that he commented, sort of like the unwritten rule in baseball... you can swear talking to the ump, but not at the ump. So, as a general rule, "That pitch was an F'n ball" slides, but "You a-hole, that was a ball" gets you in more trouble. That said, remember there are kids on the site, so try to keep the cursing down. There will be times when it's necessary. Hey, this is the blues. Sometimes just writing out the lyrics to a song involves cursing.
As for a review process, don't worry, most of the time bans aren't too time sensitive and we ask each other's for opinions. (Spammers of course get banned on site.)
Remember also, that on a forum you don't hear the inflection in someone's voice, so calling someone a-holes sort of falls flat because there is no way to know if you are joking.
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Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
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ncpacemaker
133 posts
Jan 13, 2011
9:21 AM
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I was wrong. My apologies to Todd G and everyone else.
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My YouTube Channel
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groyster1
733 posts
Jan 13, 2011
9:22 AM
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hello nate
now I know who you are and if Im not mistaken the first moderator appointed you do fine
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toddlgreene
2493 posts
Jan 13, 2011
9:53 AM
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Once again, that quote from my favorite movie, Cool Hand Luke:
"What we have here is...a failure to communicate"
I forgive you.
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Todd L. Greene, Professor of Meaningless Trivia
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Milsson
5 posts
Jan 13, 2011
10:33 AM
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I´ve pissed off a LOT of people before i got this internet thingy.
Irony is very hard to get thru here. Me and my friends have a pretty harsh jargon and that kan be hard when you try to joke with some one "outside the circle".
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jawbone
380 posts
Jan 13, 2011
11:22 AM
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Toddle - If I remember correctly - it is -
What we have he'ya.. is aw fail'ya t' communicate!!
snk snk ;-)
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If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!
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kudzurunner
2237 posts
Jan 13, 2011
11:49 AM
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@Walter: You're 637 miles from me. I could drive all that in one day, but it would make sense for me to find a gig about 400 miles along the way (Louisville or Frankfort), play that on a Friday, and show up at your place around noon on Saturday. Drive home on Sunday. Charge folks $15 at the "door" for BBQ and music, BYOB (and share YOB), take your food-costs out of the gross proceeds, and split the money in even shares to the musicians on your program. No big money, but enough to pay expenses. Record the whole thing. Pass around a tip bucket, too, during each performance.
Let's figure it out. I don't think Dave Harris could make it, but you, me, and Deak could anchor it, and Brandon could perhaps take part if he's free and can get away.
We could call it "Battle of the One-Man Bands" or "Harp Man Bands," or "One Man Harp," something catchy.
Or "Harmonica Rules!"
I'll do it. We just need to find the right weekend. June, July, or August.
email me: asgussow@aol (dot) com. Send me your phone # and we'll chat about it.
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2011 11:51 AM
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joeleebush
185 posts
Jan 13, 2011
12:19 PM
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to Waltertore
I saw a video of that Sean Carney guy (friend of yours) on here or somewhere else and I say he is a stone cold assassin!
KILLER vocals...knocked out stage presence and knows how to control an audience. Plus he looks like a MAN and not some silly boy trying to be, as they say it...."kewl".
I am very glad he isn't out there playing on a harp.
How about inviting me? (believe it, I'm not shy about asking to come to the party)
Regards
My OPINION only about this man. Attackers will be forced to play "Mustang Sally" for hours and hours while drunks yell for "Brown Eyed Girl". LMAO.
Regards
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2011 12:19 PM
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waltertore
917 posts
Jan 13, 2011
12:59 PM
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Adam: You are on. I will email you.
joeleebush: You are welcome in my home anytime. I have an invite to the party on this forum. The other guy there will be Mark Rubenstien. He is as least as much a killer as Sean. Email me at waltertore@sbcglobal.net
I will give you directions. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,600+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
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oldwailer
1499 posts
Jan 13, 2011
1:02 PM
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@Walter--I don't remember where you are, although I think you've said before--also, is there any kind of date set for this party yet?
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Always be yourself--unless you suck. . .
-Joss Whedon
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