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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
blues bridge from 1st to 2nd octave
blues bridge from 1st to 2nd octave
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Jim Rumbaugh
367 posts
Jan 08, 2011
7:21 PM
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In my opinion..... the problem from getting from the bottom octave to the top is the lack of a good blue third for us players that don't overblow. The 7 draw is not "bluesy". We need a "dance" or "trick" or "riff" to get there.
In another thread HVYJ said:
"Here's the trick: When you bridge from the the middle octave to the upper register or from the upper register back down DON'T hit draw 5 (flat 7th) or blow 6 (root). Hit blow 5 (sixth) and draw 6 (ninth). Using these two non blues scale notes to bridge between the middle and upper registers sounds very musical and melodic and ties everything together extremely well. If you do this and don't use any blow bends it's actually hard to hit a bad note playing second position blues in the upper register."
I have been using another "riff" to make the jump up and down. I jump from the flat 7th in the lower to the 4th in the upper. I play:
6b 6d 5d 7b
A typical run might be
6b 6d 5d 7b 8d 9d 9b
I would like to know how other players make this jump when playing the blues scale. I mention the blues scale because when playing 2nd position major pentatonic scales there is no problem with playing the 7draw.
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intermediate level (+) player per the Adam Gussow Scale, Started playing 2001
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hvyj
1027 posts
Jan 08, 2011
9:26 PM
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Yeah, that sounds really good. But just thinking in terms of the blues scale can be limiting. It can be very useful to also play chord extension tones. For example, the 9th is not in the blues scale but works very well for blues playing. The 13th can be cool in the right spots, too.
The 4th you are jumping to in the upper octave may be considered an 11th which is an extension tone. So you are framing the flat 7th (D5) with a 9th (D6) and an 11th (B7) which are are extension tones that lay on top of the flat seventh of the underlying chord and which is a blues scale note. that's why your bridge lick sounds so good--you are using extension tones of the dominant 7th chord. The D6 D5 B7 run is actually a partial arpeggio that consists of the 7bth of the chord and the first two extension tones of the chord, which are the 9th and 11th.
Extension tones are cool. They fit the chords so they are melodic and very musical. They help keep your playing from becoming too scale bound which can get monotonous or repetitive.
Also, there's actually nothing wrong with using a major third every now and then when playing blues. BB King uses the Mixolydian scale (major third, flat seventh) regularly.
Last Edited by on Jan 08, 2011 10:01 PM
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Todd Parrott
306 posts
Jan 08, 2011
10:35 PM
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This is why I retune the 7 draw a half-step down. People often ask me why I do this since I can overblow 6. The answer is, I use both, depending on how I wish to express that note; sometimes the 6 overblow works well, because you add a vibrato, and sometimes a nice clean sustainable note works better, which is where the 7 draw comes in handy. A retuned 7 draw reed is much more useful in blues situations in my opinion, as the natural 7 draw note just doesn't sound bluesy. Plus, you can then blow bend 7 to achieve the natural 7 draw note - the major 3rd.
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hvyj
1039 posts
Jan 09, 2011
10:25 AM
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I'm bumping this thread back to page 1 because it is such a musically interesting topic that i don't want to believe nobody else has anything to contribute to the discussion.
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toddlgreene
2443 posts
Jan 09, 2011
10:54 AM
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TP, given your re-tuning of the 7 draw, do you feel playing any particular style of music is limited or enhanced? For instance, blues?
On the OT, I guess I've always approached the harp and its 'missing' notes within scales and melodies as something I have to work around. I'm a 100% ear player, and play without even thinking about WHAT I'm even playing, as long as it sounds good. I don't recommend this approach, but it's how I have always done it, with very few exceptions.
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Todd L. Greene, Codger-in-training
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MP
1260 posts
Jan 09, 2011
11:36 AM
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Jim,
charlie musselwhite does variations on that theme a LOT.
charlie was one of the first blues guys i noticed really utilizing the entire note set-up on diatonics with seemless acending and decending runs.
mostly in second pos. but he's real big on multiple pos. playing too.---------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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Todd Parrott
308 posts
Jan 09, 2011
4:24 PM
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@toddlgreene
I wouldn't say that this tuning limits you in any way, regardless of the style of music, because you don't really lose any notes, they just change places. In my opinion, the major 3rd note (7 draw) is a note that doesn't lend itself well to the blues, unless you want to play like Sugar Blue or Popper. With this flatted 7 draw tuning, the minor 3rd (blue note), which is the note that blues players are after, becomes easily achievable by simply playing the 7 draw, instead of having to overblow. And, the major 3rd is now available by blow bending 7. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't play the 6 overblow, because you should, especially for reasons of expression or vibrato.
I find that the flatted 7 draw tuning enhances my playing for any style; blues, country, gospel, jazz, etc. All of my harps are tuned this way, even my customs. I do use standard tuned harps on rare occasions for Charlie McCoy style bluegrass or country songs, but if you get used to the flatted 7 draw tuning, you can easily use it to play these fast country patterns as well - you just have to be precise at bending the 7 blow as a passing note.
This tuning also works for other positions. In 12th position, the bendable 7 blow gives you the same expression as the 4 draw bend would in 2nd. 11th position also becomes more useful and smooth sounding, because the flatted 7 draw is your root note. In 3rd position, the bendable 7 blow gives more expression and possibilities than that of a standard tuned harp. It has it's advantages in 5th position too, as well as others.... too much to type here. I really need to make a video to demonstrate these.
As an overdraw user using this tuning, when I overdraw 7 and bend it upwards, then release it, the note you land on is now the minor 3rd, which sounds cool both in 2nd and 11th position. I showed this this to Chris Michalek at SPAH and he really liked the sound it gave.
So... no, I don't find any real limitations with this tuning, though some have said, "but how does it sound when you play the draw chord?" And I say, how does it sound when you play a draw chord on the higher end around 5, 6, 7, 8 on a standard harp? In either tuning it doesn't sound ideal to me (though it sounds cooler on a retuned harp to me), and I typically don't think of the higher draw end of the harp as something you would use for chords anyway.
But try this on a retuned low harp for a cool sound - blow 7 & 8.... (you can bend them both together) then, draw 7 & 8.... pretty cool sound if you ask me.
I love this tuning, and I could kick myself for not using it sooner. I first read about it in "The Harp Handbook" by Steve Baker, though it suggested tuning the 3 draw also, so I didn't give it much thought. Then a friend named Pete Elder from Louisiana turned me onto to this flatted 7 draw tuning around 1999 or 2000, and I've used it ever since.
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