of 3 popular harps,golden melody,lee oskar and special 20 I own only 3 in the key of A-I played 2nd position blues riffs in E and 3rd position blues riffs in Gm-the sounds of the GM and LO were identical however the sp20 was noticeably different and superior sounding as far as blues music goes in my opinion-there were 4 witnesses and they thought the LO and GM sounded identical and yet different from the sp20-none of these harps have ever been tweaked at all
Last Edited by on Jan 05, 2011 12:34 PM
Maybe we ought to ask anyone who has multiple harps in the same key to give us some sound comparisons, maybe even some sound sample. I think I have more C harps than any other key. Let's see, I've got a Piedmont, a Blues Band, Frankenharp, a Lee Oskar, a Pocket Pal, a Puck, a Blessing Tremolo and a Huang Musette tremolo.
Maybe that's not such a good comparison. The Puck is a lot of fun, but the Lee Oskar is the best in the bunch. Actually, the Frankenharp, although it's not responsive at all, has a really sweet tone to it. I think it's just a Piedmont crossed with a Blues Band.
As to your results, I'm surprised they found the GM and the LO sounded similar. Most of my LO's are lower key and my GM is a F#, but I would have thought the SP20 and the LO would have sounded closer.
@silvertone maybe that solves it-thanks the point is when you are thinking about buying a guitar you can play a few chords and see how you like it but a harp once your mouth is on it its yours and @tooka yes I think sp20s are a great ootb harp value wise
Last Edited by on Jan 05, 2011 5:57 PM
A interesting further comparison would be how these 3 harps sound when playing with other musicians--an in tune guitar player, for example.
I find that while compromise tuned harps can sound pretty decent playing solo, they don't sound as in tune playing with others as ET harps do. But, YMMV.
Anyway, personally. I think it's more important that I sound in tune with the rest of the band than just sounding in tune with myself.
Your mileage may vary=your experience may be different.
The more time i spend on MBH the more sensitive I have become to the reality that a lot of the regular posters don't play with other musicians regularly and/or have no interest in doing so. i have come to recognize that playing regularly with other musicians presents concerns which make certain things important that may not be very important to those who only play for their own amusement or to make solo recordings with background tracks. So, I've learned to moderate my opinions about certain things since I am primarily concerned about what i works well playing live in public with other musicians.
I have played ET harps almost exclusively for 25 years in 5 different bands, jams, session recordings and at home in-front of friends and family.
Noone - not one person, (musician, audience member or whatever) - in all that time, all those gigs has ever commented that my Lee Oscars or Golden Melody harps sounded out of tune with the other musicians.
I'm not saying in an A/B comparison that people cannot detect the difference (as the OP has shown they can). I just think the whole issue (and alleged beating, harsh chords) is somewhat exaggerated - particularly from the listeners perspective.
I have both compromised and ET harps in some of the same keys. I'll switch between them on the fly live sometimes. Only I notice(it's very subtle when amped up with any distortion at all), and I play lots of chords/octaves. Now, if I play side by side with another harp player, with each of us on a different tuning, it's obvious.
Of course, Yodelling Men Mangonel Verve... ----------
Todd L. Greene, Codger-in-training
Last Edited by on Jan 05, 2011 2:34 PM
@MrVerylongusername: My experience is the same as yours. I play multiple positions and, to my ear, all the flat notes in CT make me sound out of tune. So i play ET exclusively.
I hear what people describe as "beating" as a very slight shimmer. you amplify the harp, use reverb or delay and play along with an electric guitar, electric bass and drums and the subtlety of the shimmer is swallowed in the mix--ain't no big deal.
@toddlgreene: When i play side by side with another harp player who's playing CT while I'm playing ET (usually at a jam or open stage) I find that i consistently sound very obviously more in tune with the band than the CT player no matter what position i am playing in.
Last Edited by on Jan 05, 2011 2:44 PM
I think if I played acoustic or 'clean' primarily, I would not want to mix ET and compromised(or any other)tunings. Yes, the 'beating' happens, and my ears are pretty pitch-sensitive(which makes up for my lack of theory knowledge-if I ever lose my sensitive hearing-I am screwed!), so I can usually hear the slight sharpness/flatness in octaves especially. It would probably be a good 'rule' for one to follow, in general: Make sure your primary and backup harps are the same tuning.
EDIT:HVYJ, I've done that side by side thing with others and noticed the difference as well...it usually amounts to a slightly surprised look from the other player if he has a keen ear and we happen to be playing nearly the same lines. ----------
Todd L. Greene, Codger-in-training
Last Edited by on Jan 05, 2011 2:49 PM
@toddlgreene: Octaves are ALWAYS in perfect tune with one another whether the harp is ET, CT, JI or any variation of JI. If your pitch sensitive ears are telling anything different then what they are telling you is that your harp is out of tune.
in any tuning scheme Octaves are NOT tempered on a diatonic harmonica.
You are correct, HVYJ. See, ALL of my ET harps(LO, every one)are aged, and only a handful remain that haven't been re-tuned. Of couse, those somehow find their way into my box...All of my newer and customised harps(except the Manjis, which are still in great ET tune)are tuned to compromised. You just reminded me what a mess my harps are... ----------
Todd L. Greene, Codger-in-training
Last Edited by on Jan 05, 2011 3:06 PM
...and mine are currently in tune on those octaves! Yeah, I've grown used to the Manji tuning-and their volume compared to my LOs. Manjis are considerably louder.
Yukon Men Mangle V-twins...ok, that was weak. ----------
I own a Marine band in A, a Golden Melody in A and a Special 20 in A. I tuned the GM to Just Intonation tuning. The MB and SP20 tuning are unchanged.
I prefer the GM. I like the way it feels in my hands, I like the way it plays and I find it much louder than the other two. I like the SP20 the least - it sounds a little like a tin can compared to the other two.
But that's just my opinion.
What would be interesting here is to tune the GM and the Lee Oskar to the same tuning as the SP20 and then see what the same people say after hearing the comparison again.
I like the ergonomics of GMs, too. I'm not a fan of Hohners in general, but IMHO the ergonomics of GMs are the best. i also agree that Spc 20s sound tinny.
Personally, I don't like the sound of MBs or Manjis at all. I don't like the sound you get from a harp with vented covers--but this is purely a matter of subjective taste. i happen to like the darker more focused tone one gets from full length unvented covers like the GM or Suzuki Hammond.
when a harp is compromise tuned does that mean a compromise between equal tuning and just intonation? are the marine band 1896 compromise tuned like the sp20?
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2011 7:32 AM
I know that I am going to regret posting this, but here is a video that I did one day about 3 year ago comparing several of the same key harps. Be nice guys, It was 3 year ago, and things have changed.
@groyster1: Yes. CT is a compromise between ET and JI. Hohner MS harps have a CT that is closer to ET than the CT used on MBs which is slightly closer to JI.
I think SP20s use a CT that is in between the MS and MB tunings, but I'm not sure since i don't play Hohners.
I own but one MB,and it's a Buddha one. I don't know if it's because of Buddha's skill or all MB's are alike,but for blues only,those chords and octaves really sing. Much closer to what I hear on records of any of the old greats. I can understand the MB lure,if that's what all MB's sound like. But the 5 draw,in particular,sounds really out of tune with the band. For anything other than blues,ET works better.
